catch 22

gracelee

in order to gain self-dicipline you have to meditate... in order to meditate you have to have self-dicipline.... shame really...

compassionate_warrior

Where does that idea come from, that meditation confers self-discipline? I've never heard that before. (Nice to hear from you again, Gracelee. )

Roger

Small amounts of discipline (for example pay strict attention to breathing) followed by a bit of liberation which reinforces the focussing discipline.

Like any learning of a sport or a new skill: focus followed by a flush - the dopamine reward circuit has to be established.

compassionate_warrior

Hooray for dopamine!

Roger

Hooray for dopamine!

Yeah! The "feel good" (do good) neurotransmitter!

:clap:

gracelee

i was under the impression that through meditation you develop the ability to watch your thoughts and are better able to let them go?

for example if you have the thought "i don't want to meditate this morning" if you have been practicing for a while you could be aware of the thought without having to follow through on it and so have more self disipline


(hi compassionate warrior, thanks for the help before )

Jeffrey

Dopamine, not true. Not always does dopamine release on meditation. I have meditated for 8 years and seldom do I have a pleasurable meditation, and usually when I am very psychotic. I am on a lot of drugs that suppress dopamine.

You don't need to have discipline. You just need to be interested in your own experience, what it is. If you were not interested in your experience you would not be asking any questions etc.. something brought you to buddhism.

Meditation is seeing your experience as it is. There is nothing special about sitting other than the mind body link on posture, and also you notice your mind more without the back drop of a stimulating or hectic activity.

Gracelee, part of the experience you notice is that thinking is just thinking. You can not have to react with it. There is a playfulness and experimentation to meditation. You learn by doing it. You tubes and teachers are just hints, not a cookbook. 1 tablespoon butter 1 tablespoon flour,,, chicken stock... no its not like that haha.

sukhita

in order to gain self-dicipline you have to meditate... in order to meditate you have to have self-dicipline.... shame really...

Maybe, we can look at meditation itself as a discipline, like this:

Meditation is a mental discipline by which one attempts to get beyond the conditioned, "thinking" mind into a deeper state of relaxation or awareness.

Roger

in order to gain self-dicipline you have to meditate... in order to meditate you have to have self-dicipline.... shame really...

Maybe, we can look at meditation itself as a discipline, like this:

Meditation is a mental discipline by which one attempts to get beyond the conditioned, "thinking" mind into a deeper state of relaxation or awareness.

Yup. It's like playing an instrument, learning the music. There're many levels to it. The ultimate level is when you are performing, none of the smaller aspects of learning come into conscious play. The "flow" is expressed seemingly under it's own power. That level is effortless but doesn't come without lots of preparatory "sweat" (i.e. discipline).

gracelee

thanks for your answers guys, that makes alot of sense to me jeffery, the idea that it is about being curious of your own experience intsead of being somthing that you 'should' do
cheers
G x