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Hardship

edited January 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Hello

I have been studying Buddhism for several months now and have found that everything I have read so far, makes so much sense.

I am puzzled however, as to why Buddhist Monks seem to put themselves through so much hardship. For example, by sitting on uncomfortable chairs or sleeping only on hard beds.

This is probably different according to the tradition followed but so far I cannot find a reason why this seeming hardship has to be endured.

I did consider that it may be something to do with dispelling negative karma. For example, if Monks endure unnecessary suffering then perhaps they are rewarded with good karma but this seems wrong because it is "staged" so to speak.

I would be grateful if someone could explain why Buddhist Monks seem to put themselves through undue suffering.

Thank you,

Wendy

Comments

  • aHappyNihilistaHappyNihilist Veteran
    edited January 2011
    putting yourself through unnecessary suffering does not give you good karma, it in fact gives you bad karma. but their suffering is not unnecessary, they are trying to teach themselves that feeling physically good is unnecessary. this doesn't mean that you should always be hurting yourself, it is just a way of weakening your dependence on physical pleasure. this is why monks often don't eat very much, don't possess wealth, don't live in 5 star hotels etc. it is a way of teaching your mind too not depend on physical comfort.

    edit: just to further emphasize my point, this doesn't mean you should go whip yourself or something :o just maybe try to loosen your minds "addiction" to comfort. physical hardship is a tool to achieve spiritual perfection.
  • Thank you for your reply.

    I really don't think there is anything wrong with enjoying some simple comforts in life like a nice cushioned chair or soft bed if this is available. I also don't feel that there is a need to weaken dependence on physical pleasure unless you are preparing for an impending hardship. Also, if physical hardship is a tool to achieve spiritual perfection does that mean that those who do not practice physical hardship will not achieve spiritual perfection?
  • edited January 2011
    ........
    I would be grateful if someone could explain why Buddhist Monks seem to put themselves through undue suffering.......
    Yes, they may "seem" to put themselves through undue suffering, but in fact they are freeing themselves from suffering brought on by attachment to the pleasant and aversion for the unpleasant. To the contrary, it may be that we (lay people) are setting ourselves up for suffering by constantly trying to keep up with the "norms" of society. Just a thought.... :)

    EDIT: Lay people are not required to exercise the same level of renunciation as monks, so we are free to enjoy the comforts and pleasures (responsibly), that is not constantly longing for more and clinging to that we already enjoy.
  • I still can't see why they need to endure hardship to free themselves from the suffering of attachment.

    You are right that many lay people do set themselves up for suffering and in fact of course living in samsara is a lifetime of suffering. However, having read Buddhism, like the teachings and want to practice Buddhism in my every day life, I feel that maybe I cannot unless I ditch my lovely home comforts!
  • Thank you for the edit to your post, that makes me feel a lot better :)

    I have the greatest respect for Monks, I don't think, however devoted, that I could ever exercise the same or similar level of renunciation.

    I just needed to try and understand the reasons behind this.

    Thanks.
  • aHappyNihilistaHappyNihilist Veteran
    edited January 2011
    well, hardship is a tool to improve your spiritual life but it doesn't necessarily mean that you need it. collectively experienced hardship is also useful in terms of building a better sangha something important in a monastery.

    it is possible to enjoy all of life's little comforts and still not crave them, but it's very difficult. you can still enjoy physical comfort and as long as you are utterly free from craving spiritual perfection could be possible. but this would take an incredible mind. this is why some deprivation of physical comfort is useful.

    as for some ditching of comforts, try to take small steps. the more you live without them the easier it is not to want them. it's literally an issue of addiction, dopamine leads us to eat certain foods, high in fat and salt, leads us to enjoy things like warmth etc. the more we are without those things the less dopamine is released in our brains. of course you will never end all dopamine addiction, nor do you need to. the less you have the easier it is to not crave.
  • That makes perfect sense. It is difficult as you say to enjoy comforts and not crave them. For example if we stay in a low standard hotel that does not have the luxuries that we are used to at home.

    However, in practising Buddhism, I have found it easier to accept less luxuries and have the attitude of being very grateful. I went to a Buddhist Retreat for the new year and the accommodation, food and heating was not like that I enjoy at home but yet I was able to accept the conditions happily and gratefully.

    So I am learning as I go along.

    Thank you for your comments.
  • Frankly, I think one reason for the hardships in monasteries is that they don't have the money for "extras". In fact, they often don't have the money for 3 meals/day for everyone. Just my perspective.
  • You have to contribute some of your comfort to them through buying of comfortable chair. But the type of comfort differed individually. So, the question is, which type of chair is most comfortable and suitable for monks? In fact, these monks live on what they have, unless you donate in kind :thumbsup:
  • "The middle way." Just enjoy life. Don't crave that which cannot be. Accept what is, and be happy.
  • "The middle way." Just enjoy life. Don't crave that which cannot be. Accept what is, and be happy.
    Do Monks give up all their possessions when they join a monastery?
  • Hmm, not sure what happened there. I meant to quote what Wilfred said!!

    Anyway, just wondered what Monks do with their possessions when they join a monastery. Do they have to give them up or donate them to charity?

    If they have to give them up so they can practice training the mind to not be attached to things that give us comfort and pleasure then surely they would not be permitted to accept gifts of comfortable chairs?
  • (just to complement some already great answers)

    My understanding is that these basic Buddhist practices are small things that really just represent the big things.

    To put it in another way: these are basic disciplines that represent broader, more significant, universal disciplines.

    All ships, big and small, need to sail in the same direction. Does that make sense?

    Hope that helps. :)

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