Dhamma Dhatu/Valoise

upekka

Dhamma Dhatu 12:39AM

valois said:

You don't agree with upekka? I would understand that analysis from a secular point of view, ?





I can experience my in & out breathing. That my body breathes in & out is not dependent on my volition or past karma.

(your body breath without your volition but breathing happens only until your kamma-vipaka for the present life ends)


I can put my hand in a fire. That my nervous system feels pain is not dependent on my volition or past karma.
(True, however unless you put your hand in a fire (cause) your do not feel the pain (effect)


The Buddha described Nibbana in many ways. One way was it is the cessation of karma. Another way was it is the cessation of greed, hatred & delusion but the arahant still feels pleasure & pain. The arahant has ended karma but still feels pleasure & pain.

(True)

The arahant's experience of pleasure & pain is not dependent on past karma.

(as far as i understood, whatever experience comes to six sense bases depend on past karma (ex: Arahath Angulimala's experience) but they do not react to them and create new kamma (cause) for future effect)


The Buddha said perception (sanna) is called perception because it perceives. It perceives blue, green, red, yellow, etc. Regardless of volition or karma, perception will perceive difference.

(True and then people react to them and create new kamma (cause) for future effect)


Similarly, regardless of volition or karma, consciousness will be conscious via the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body & mind.

(volition or kamma is the reaction to feeling or perception (cause) for future effect and feeling or perception happens via six sense bases)


Naturally, I do not subscribe to the view all we experience is due to past karma.
(that is fine, what i said is what i understood)

I might be meditating under a tree and a plane falls from the sky and injures me. My experience is not related to my past karma.
(if you are still conscious to the pain (effect) then it is your past kamma (cause), and since you are meditating (have sati) you would not create kamma (cause) for future effect)

Hair grows from my face and I must shave.
(there is no must for anything. just wait and see without shave what will happen)

The hair growing from my face is not related to past karma.
(you born as a human being and the hair growing happens accordingly. there are other niyama dhamma apart from kamma niyama like utu niyama, beeja niyama etc.)

Since Federica closed the other thread there was not a chance to answer the above
Please do not consider that this thread has started for arguments,

if there is anything to clarify from this side (for me) or your side (for you/anyone) we will discuss it further

otherwise LET GO

DhammaDhatu

(your body breath without your volition but breathing happens only until your kamma-vipaka for the present life ends)

otherwise LET GO

My life may end simply due to old age. This is not kamma-vipaka. Instead, it is merely natural decay.

I can only suggest you LET GO of unverifiable speculative views.

All the best

upekka

My life may end simply due to old age. This is not kamma-vipaka. Instead, it is merely natural decay.

this is very true if you are already at old age
this is very true if you are already an Arahnts

but if you are not still at old age or Arahnts how can you decide it will be a natural decay until the old age ?

this question is not for the argument sake but i genuinely value your answer

thanks in advance

DhammaDhatu

but if you are not still at old age or Arahnts how can you decide it will be a natural decay until the old age ?

Upekka

I personally do not adhere to the view that we "decide".

Death can happen anytime, for whatever natural cause.

The Buddha called the body "rupa". He said: "Why is it called rupa. Because it is afflicted. That is why it is called rupa". [Rupa: lit: 'that which will be broken']

Kind regards

upekka

I personally do not adhere to the view that we "decide".

ok
if i put it as the following:
if one is not still at old age or not an Arahnt how one knows or one can say one's death will be a natural decay until the old age ?

Death can happen anytime, for whatever natural cause.

True
but how one can say one faces the death at younger age for a natural cause but not as a Kamma-vipaka (effect) of his previous kamma (cause)?
(if one faces the death at younger age that happens because of Upghathaka-Kamma
according to Buddha's Teaching)

The Buddha called the body "rupa". He said: "Why is it called rupa. Because it is afflicted. That is why it is called rupa". [Rupa: lit: 'that which will be broken']

True

Kind regards

Vincenzi

the body... part of rupa-dhatu (form/material realm), the mind part of arupa-dhatu (formless/inmaterial realm)?

what means having access to tathagathagarbha?