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Judaism: The cradle of monotheistic beliefs

JustinJustin
edited June 2005 in Faith & Religion
Christianity, Islam, and of course the namesake, Judaism all can trace their roots back to one mythical figure, Abraham. Yet, while stemming from this same source, we get three of the worlds biggest and most violent religeons, often times squaring off against each other directly. If the beliefs and faith in those beliefs were stripped away, there would seemingly be no more hard feelings. Why do you think this is? Discuss.

Comments

  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited January 2005
    I don't understand the premise. Are you suggesting religions (specifically the big 3 monotheims) are responsible for all the conflict in the world?
  • JustinJustin
    edited January 2005
    I am saying that these religions are either at the root of or the basis behind sop many of the world's struggles. For example, the Israeli/Palestinain conflict, the crusades, the unrest in India, the propoganda put out by our own government versus that of the militant Islamics. These are the things I am talking about. It seems that some of the oldest conflicts in the world have some basis in religion. Why can't these people just get past their beliefs and get along with each other. This is just a starting point for conversation.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited January 2005
    I see those struggles more as a difference in culture than religion, really. Religion is the facade that expresses the culture frequently and is a component of culture, but I think the conflicts run much deeper than being able to say "without the beliefs the conflict would stop".
  • JustinJustin
    edited January 2005
    But are those cultural differences not rooted in the religious base of the people? Perhaps you could elaborate a little on your point of view.
  • tychotycho
    edited January 2005
    Its funny you should comment on Abraham's unique position as the "father" of the world's major religions... Brian and I chatted about this connection once and while back. He certainly set humanity on its course of actions (whether that is good of bad has yet to be determined.. imagine if there was only one religion and we were all enslaved under its control :eek2: !)
  • SamanthaSamantha
    edited January 2005
    matt wrote:
    I see those struggles more as a difference in culture than religion, really. Religion is the facade that expresses the culture frequently and is a component of culture, but I think the conflicts run much deeper than being able to say "without the beliefs the conflict would stop".

    I agree with you, Matt. It's more of a cultural or EGO problem. I'm Jewish, yet was raised Christian, and at around 22 years old, studied Paganism and Wicca. As of about nine of ten months ago, I started studying Buddhism (particularly Zen), and through my Buddhist studies, I found a book written by an observant Jew who is also a Buddhist teacher (Sylvia Boorstein). So, I guess if we're going to use labels here, I can be referred to as a Zen Judeo Pagan :)

    I don't think that ridding the world of the three major Abrahamic religions would really do much good. It's more of a cultural, but even moreso, an issue of EGO, IMHO. If one were to rid the world of Jews (um, let's not even go there), Christians or followers of Islam, you and I both know that there would be someone else to pipe up and become 'superior.'

    As human beings, we all possess egos. It's not just the Abrahamic religions - I have seen plenty of Pagans, Wiccans, Shamans, AND Buddhists with some pretty big superiority complexes.

    Not sure how coherent this all is, but one cannot blame all suffering on three religions - suffering just is. But, luckily, there is a way to end suffering... The Eightfold Path - not eradication of other beliefs. :)

    Samantha
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited January 2005
    Even at a practical level, there's no way to eliminate a religion from people. You can make people hide it from the state (such as the Falun Gong followers have done in China), but you're not going to force a new belief on someone. You can attempt to get them to accept a new religion, but it takes generations to have that change "take" sometimes.

    As Samantha put so eloquently, it really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with the people who represent that religion, and THAT has to do with people's inherent weaknesses and attachments. All we can do is use the "sword of wisdom" against the enemy of ignorance.
  • SamanthaSamantha
    edited January 2005
    Brian wrote:
    As Samantha put so eloquently, it really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with the people who represent that religion, and THAT has to do with people's inherent weaknesses and attachments. All we can do is use the "sword of wisdom" against the enemy of ignorance.

    *blush* My EGO thanks you. :) It loves to be called eloquent. *grin*

    LOL.

    Samantha

    P.S.: Up here in Northern Michigan, we got about 3 feet of snow the other night. Right now, it is 16, and feels like 9.
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited January 2005
    Hey, I'm 27 and I feel like 16, but who's counting? ;)
  • SamanthaSamantha
    edited January 2005
    Brian wrote:
    Hey, I'm 27 and I feel like 16, but who's counting? ;)

    Heehee. :) I completely relate.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2005
    ....but what are they than an excuse for stupid people to try and get away with doing stupid things? Hmmm....lets stone our children for disobeying.....right Yaweh good idea! Hey lets kill these these people since Allah doesn't like them. Sweet! Nobody even follows their religions anyway. Jesus said don't kill and treat everyone fairly. It seems simple enough to understand and I like that idea-so why do most "Christians" either support wars/killings/death penalties/fighting someone who isn't Christian/killing people who get or perform abortions? George Bush is a good Christian right? Hahahaha. If Christians or Muslims or anybody else actually did what their beliefs stated they do the world would be a much nicer place. As I figure from contemplating this is human nature is on a border. A very fine line between instinctual animalism and the exceptional gift of thought/self awareness. I mean it seems that most animals don't "think" well I'm hungry so I'll hunt this gazelle, but does it feel sad that I'm eatting it's spleen right now? Lions can't farm. They have to hunt. We can choose to not do something because it's causing other things/people/whatever harm. We can find better ways of doing things than base instict. Religions mostly turn out to be things to control populations/cultural habit/superstitions/or genuine ways of better living that sane people follow but the masses end up ruining them because they can't help themselves with all the delussions squirming around in their crazy heads of zealousness(is that even a word?). It's why I think Old Albert was a fan of Buddhism, because it's an intelligent way of life. It's key philosophy is "use your brain and do what is skillful". Seek out truth and harm nothing on your way to doing it. No God is telling you to do it, or making rules up that don't apply.....whoa I'm rambling. Is this even on the topic? If it's not I'm sorry...if you stripped all the dogma from the 3 main monotheistics religions, I bet they would still fight and kill and argue about something else. People just feel the need to attach to something, anything to feel important or justified. Religion is the perfect pasifier for the collective mouths of society. They don't need to think because their God/teacher/holy books tell them what to do and think. It's not their faults really since they don't even realize any of this. They feel empty and crave some higher purpose to fill it with. That is why the Buddha was so adamant about compassion for these kinds people. They are blind to their own suffering. If there was a God do you think He would want His creations, His masterpiece so to speak, killing each other over something so petty? Probably not. That reminds me-has anyone read God is a Verb? It's written by a rabbi and he talks about Jewish traditions, Kabbalah, and Buddhism. It's a really interesting book and I recommend it.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2005
    The big problem is that in order to feel good, people need to believe they are right, and not lose 'control' of any given situation. There is a huge difference therefore in the basic Religion itself, and the Theology propounded by its' chief interpreters..... If you strip back any religion to its' bare roots, the underlying, constant and continual message is one of Love, Brotherhood (I use the term advisedly, sisters!) and Compassion. But start pitching in the Egos and you open up a whole can of Worms! I believe it was Ghandi who said that God has no religion.....
    I believe that people's actions stem directly from their reacting to a stimulus they have experienced. This is unfortunately mostly an unconscious reflex.......Sometimes this reaction can be excessive, sometimes restrained. more often than not, it falls between the two. So if you apply a positive 'stimulus' the result must be Positive. And Vice versa. But I have experienced several instances when I have Actively and Consciously reacted in the opposite way to the one expected by "my stimulant" - !! I have had the unfortunate experiences of knowing levels of hostility, which I deliberately and continuously countered with politeness, courtesy, joy and happiness. In the face of this repeated refusal to react as expected - guess what? Their continuous hostility was impossible for them to sustain. it would have been churlish and pig-headed for them to have persisted. I now count these people as good friends.
    Now, how do I get in touch with leading Churchmen & Politicos and let them in on my big secret.......? (giggle)
  • JustinJustin
    edited April 2005
    Why must it be so important to be right? For one to be right all the time, one must know EVERYTHING. How can you know everything and continue to learn? Why must people feel that they are in control? Are you in controll of your heartbeat, your body temperature, or the growth of a tree?
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited June 2005
    One of the things I love about Buddhism is that, in essence, it sets out no claim to be 'right'. It presents a series of hypotheses and then experiments by which we can test the hypotheses. It is the acme of the scientific method. "Take nothing for granted and don't believe me just because I say something," seems to have been a constant message that the Buddha Shakyamuni taught.

    This can appear disturbing to dogma- and doctrine-driven faiths. And they, in their turn, can seem strange to the experiential Buddhist.
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