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Christians pray, Buddhists .........
When something happens, especially if something unhappy happens, like someone is in a car accident, Christians pray. At least some of them do! There are different ways to think of it -- if you believe that God is a big father in heaven, you might "ask him" to
heal your friend
save your friend
help the right things happen
be present
provide comfort.
If you think of God as the "universal creative force" or "true nature" you might use prayer to visualize healing, the right things happening, or that your friend would find comfort, or you could "send energy."
My lama friend told me he would chant a zhou (blessing) for my mother when she was sick. I think he chanted the Medicine Buddha chant.
I am curious to hear if you think there is a difference in this, except in that Christians feel that "God" is the one sending the blessing. Of course, you have to ask, who/what is God? but since Buddhism doesn't subscribe to that idea, since many people think "God" is a (grand)father in the sky, how do you as a Buddhist "pray?"
AND -- what do you do when your friend is in a car accident?
EM
heal your friend
save your friend
help the right things happen
be present
provide comfort.
If you think of God as the "universal creative force" or "true nature" you might use prayer to visualize healing, the right things happening, or that your friend would find comfort, or you could "send energy."
My lama friend told me he would chant a zhou (blessing) for my mother when she was sick. I think he chanted the Medicine Buddha chant.
I am curious to hear if you think there is a difference in this, except in that Christians feel that "God" is the one sending the blessing. Of course, you have to ask, who/what is God? but since Buddhism doesn't subscribe to that idea, since many people think "God" is a (grand)father in the sky, how do you as a Buddhist "pray?"
AND -- what do you do when your friend is in a car accident?
EM
0
Comments
I can only tell you what I did when a friend of mine was in an accident. I went to his families side and offered to do anything they needed. I sat with them through the hard times, while my friend was in surgery. I knew that was all I could do. As for healing, that was between him and his God/Grandfather. Nothing I could do or say would change that.
He is alright now fully healed, and he appreciated the help and comfort I was able to give to his mom while he was laid up.
Buddhists, at least some, don't rely on external sources to help us get through our suffering.
-bf
I too would recite the Blue Medicine Buddha's mantra. I have seen it work powerfully on an emotional level, and at least two people I know, who practised a meditation with the Blue Buddha as the central focus, are both convinced that something worked in them through this....
manifesting Compassion is the greatest tool at our disposal, and sometimes, the only thing we can do, is to just be there for whomsoever needs us, to do whatever they need us to do....
Incidentally, I personally find it curious that so many people use exclamations, like 'Oh My God!' and "Jeeeesus Christ!" when they hear something astounding, incredible or terrible.
For my part, I personally try not to abuse that phraseology, especially since I don't ascribe to that Creed or train of Thought. If I don't believe it, why abuse it and to all intents and purposes, blaspheme? Just a thought off on a tangent......
My own take, now, arises from a view of deep interconnectedness which is often expressed in the metaphor of the butterfly flapping its wings. Prayer, as an action, often internal, which aims at the betterment of another or others, is a matter of alignment of intention and benevolence. In that way, it may be similar to tonglen. The big difference is that prayer also tends to address power outside ourselves.
When I read HHDL and other teachers worthy of serious attention calling on us to pray, it seems to me that we have to take the action seriously, even if we do not fully understand its workings.
Prayer, as many Christian teachers have pointed out, is more about the attitude of the person praying than about the oject or subject of prayer. It is an expression of hope and trust in the compassion that subtends all that arises.
C. S. Lewis had an interesting view that prayer, addressing that which is outwith space and time, can affect even events that have already taken place, such as illness.
It should also be understood that petitionary prayer (the prayer that asks for things) is only one, small aspec of a much wider spiritual discipline.
I'm not saying that I disagree with you but... If you don't believe in it, how is it blasphemy?
-bf
Being with someone in need and doing what you can is a very compassionate thing to do. It is the best. But what if you are far away? Then what?
I am curious how many people are thinking about suffering alone.
"Buddhists, at least some, don't rely on external sources to help us get through our suffering."
I was thinking more of other people's suffering.
I always smile when I think of HHDL's famous phrase "Kindness is my religion." If we just watch others suffer, where is the kindness? It makes me think of the Chinese character for compassion -- it is made up of two characters put together. The one on the left is the symbol for a person. The one on the right is the number "two". If there aren't two people, how can you have compassion? I like that character. I will try to paste one in here, and see if it works:
仁 (I hope you can read it on your computers.)
Simon -- Did HHDL really call on us to pray? I like the butterfly metaphor applied to prayer. I think most recently I have been thinking of prayer in the same way I see bowing to the Buddha in the morning -- as becoming aware of what that represents -- bowing to the compassion, the essence of mind, wisdom, mindfulness, etc that is represented there, and "nourishing" that in myself in so doing. A bit like "connecting with" those elements in myself.
Which brings us back to the petitionary form of prayer. (I do agree with you that petitionary prayer is only a small piece of the picture, but it is a critical piece, especially when there is someone in need, and it is a chance for compassion to arise and be spread.) I guess one way to envision prayer is to see it as nourishing something (health, wisdom, peace or whatever) in whoever is in need. There are other words I have thought of -- "sending energy" "sending good wishes" etc.
I have found some peace in chanting sutras like the Medicine Buddha for those who are ill, but I still find it a small distraction to think of it as -- "the Medicine Buddha" -- and what is the difference in that and the Grandfather in the Sky? AND -- if the Grandfather in the Sky is seen as the embodiment of compassion and healing, wisdom etc., then what is the difference between Buddhism and Christianity in the aspect of prayer? Perhaps there are no differences?
Alas -- I have more thoughts on this, but I have some work to do. Thank you and blessings to you all today!
EM
Sorry, I didn't explain myself adequately... I'm thinking from the perspective of an observing Christian....
I haven't figured out how to quote yet!
I was thinking about what you said:
"Incidentally, I personally find it curious that so many people use exclamations, like 'Oh My God!' and "Jeeeesus Christ!" when they hear something astounding, incredible or terrible.
For my part, I personally try not to abuse that phraseology, especially since I don't ascribe to that Creed or train of Thought. If I don't believe it, why abuse it and to all intents and purposes, blaspheme? Just a thought off on a tangent"
I think there might be a difference in Oh my God and Jeeeesus Christ! Perhaps it originally came from a fairly harmless place. I know a nun who lived in a convent for years, and finally came out to help teach in China. When things happened, like someone spit on the street with a loud noise, she would say "Oh save us." It was addressed to God. A sort of calling on God to witness. She could have said "Oh my God" -- it would be similar. The thing I don't really like about hearing people say "Jeeesus Christ" is that is is usually said in anger. And I think it is important to respect others, and if it is offensive to others, why not say something else? I use the plain version "Oh my" and it works just fine. I have some Christian friends who are offended by "Geez" because they say it somes from "Jesus." But that seems to be a rare thing. Anyway, it is all just custom. Buddhists would be offended if people used "Buuuudha!" as something they said when they were angry. Harmony is one of the most important things we have, and swearing using a name of divinity breaks up the harmony. This is an interesting subject.
Thanks!
EM
I guess in this respect - I honestly don't know what to say. I don't know that I believe in prayers or sending some thought over to someone else to help them out.
I believe there is a quote that goes something like "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
While I'm not discounting prayer or people that believe in prayer - I believe that it's much more of a benefit to actually do something on the physical plane. A shoulder to cry on. The comfort of holding someone hurting in your arms. Being a sounding board. Making meals for the hungry or helpless.
Just sitting here thinking about it makes me think about weeping at a person's funeral. Who are we weeping for? The dead? The dead don't know. I believe we're actually weeping for ourselves and our loss.
I guess I kind of also look at prayer this way. It's much easier to sit in our home and wish or pray that someone gets better - or gets through this financial difficulty - or gets through this emotional difficulty - but isn't lending a helping hand actually putting these "good thoughts" or "good intentions" or "prayer" into action?
-bf
Quote from the Saint Anthony Messenger site
Sister Mary Margaret asks the Dalai Lama, who is encouraging Tibetan monks to become more socially involved, how he reconciles the apparent conflict between prayer and social action. The Dalai Lama has no easy answer, but he says he would recommend a "50-50" split between prayer and action. Buddhists are inclined to withdraw from the world, he says. "We have to learn from our Christian brothers and sisters. We should have more socially engaged activities." He acknowledges that Buddhist monks' lack of social action partly prompted Pope John Paul II's widely publicized criticism of Buddhism in his 1994 book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope. But the Dalai Lama downplays the controversy and says he had a warm meeting with Pope John Paul earlier this year.
One Buddhist monk who personifies social action among Buddhist monastics is the Venerable Maha Ghosananda of Cambodia. This man of peace says simply, "We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to the Buddha, Christ or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do."
This will be a slow transformation, he adds, since many Asians rely on traditional monkhood. Many fellow Cambodians tell him that monks belong in the temple. In spite of the difficult adjustment, he says, "We monks must answer the increasingly loud cries of suffering. We only need to remember that our temple is with us always. We are our temple."
Here in this simple, holy man, I hear the very essence of this retreat. Neither prayer nor retreat is for us alone; always they imply an entering in, as in breathing in, that necessarily involves a coming out, a breathing out, if there is to be a life-giving balance. We pray and we learn to act with love in the world; we act with love in the world and we learn to pray.
http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Jan1997/feature1.asp#F4
Prayer to Give Aid --
May I become at all times, both now and forever
A protector for those without protection
A guide for those who have lost their way
A ship for those with oceans to cross
A bridge for those with rivers to cross
A sanctuary for those in danger
A lamp for those without light
A place of refuge for those who lack shelter
And a servant to all in need.
Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama
I recently saw the film 'Kundun' which gave an account of the 14th Dalai Lama's life in Tibet and his eventual escape.
It related how at one point, He and his Council had approached other World Powers for assistance, but had been turned down.
the film however, failed to indicate that the Council had turned down a previous offer, made in 1945 to Tibet, to join the United Nations. Tibet had declined, suggesting that as they were such a peace-loving and non-violent nation, they had no need of such an alliance.
It was a grave mistake on their part.....with the tragic consequences still being felt today.
The Dalai Lama recounts this incident in his autobiography, 'Freedom in Exile'. But he also goes on to say that this invasion was perhaps part of Tibet's karma.... and that had it not been for the Chinese, the world as a whole would never had known and accepted Buddhism in the way it has today. He admits that Tibet - and Buddhism - was insular, closetted and far removed from the reality he knows today, which exists throughout the world: the reality of Suffering. And he feels that even, if on the face of it, the invasion is a terrible and inhuman thing, it has also brought about a growth and development in Buddhism that he can only rejoice over.
While exhorting everyone to embrace the religion they have, and to find the words of wisdom therein for themselves, he is also naturally delighted that Buddhism has been thrust into the 20th - and 21st! - Century, to flourish, develop and grow, finding new followers.
The above post illustrates beautifully how Buddhists themselves, see the need to further integrate and develop their community Spirit further.
Joy and sorrow are the threads of one cloth. Blessings and tragedies are also part of one cloth. And how grateful so many people are to have had the chance to meet Buddhism, which really might never have happened if it had not had an exodus from Tibet.
On this topic -- I think prayer is something that benefits from the meeting of East and West, and the meeting gives us all a chance to really think hard about it.
Thank you everyone for your thoughts -- I really appreciate it.
Cyber-hugs,
EM
Thanks, Pilgrim, for recommending this book. I've heard of it before and just now ordered it from ABEBOOKS.COM.
Also wanted to bump this thread, since I've just discovered ECM's wonderful posts.
Fondly,
Nirvana
I just use it for a lesson - things are sometimes what they seem - and at other times... not.
Just think of being "logged in" as another sign of impermanence...
-buddhafoot
There is the old story of the two men running to catch a train. One looks at his watch and says: "We have plenty of time." They slow down but miss the train because the watch was wrong.
"How strange," said the watch owner. "I had great faith in this watch."
"Indeed," his irate friend replied, "but what use is faith without good works?"
One of the things that made me drawn to Buddhism so long ago was that it is open to question everything.........keep what you want and don't what you don't want and as long as your actions and thoughts are with loving kindness and compassion all is well. You will bring good karma to yourself and others. So I think it is what ever feels right to the person.
I have great love for Tara or Kwan Yin.........I had read that if you need her say her name 3 times and she will come. When I had great sorrow I did this and she did come. Long story for another time. But my point is........it made me a believer that pray does help and at the very least as long as it is done with love, kindness and compassion that it can not hurt.
Recitation of her Mantra, and projecting a visual image of her to embrace "what ails me" - or anyone else for that matter - is an effective and very real remedy to the problem.
She hasn't 'let me down' so far....
I have settled into three patterns of prayer - one is a prayer bowl, that has slips of paper with the names of everyone I know who needs prayers. Prayer bowls are nice because they help you remember the things you said you would pray for, but you can also just pray with the bowl and not fuss with slips of paper. I do Taking and Sending -Tonglen - praying too, early in the morning. When there is something I am really concerned about, I sing prayers or chant, but that is not every day. I think it is easier (for me) to feel that interconnectedness when singing or chanting, perhaps because music is a function of the right (wholistic) side of the brain?
I recently went to a retreat with Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche, who, in his discussion about compassion, gave the metaphor of taking off your cozy, fuzzy, warmly lined jacket and turning it inside out, so the love that you normally keep for yourself is radiated out to others. It is simple - but to the point. This is the best of prayer and compassion.
Nice to hear from you!
EM