Do You Experience the Profound With Meditation?

Roger

Hi. I'm just a beginner. I'm not very good at meditation yet. I can barely get my breathing to be the sole awareness when I meditate. I'll get better, don't be concerned about that.

I would like to ask: what do the most advanced meditators experience in an ultimate sense?

Do certain forms of meditation involve getting glimpses (or glaring views) of Infiniteness? Profundity? The Ineffable? Unity?

Is that the ultimate goal of meditation?

I know there is a lot of different intents to meditation.

Short of achieving actual ___Enlightenment___, Do the "higher" forms of meditation, or the most difficult forms, or any forms yield a profound, inspiring yet ineffable sense of ..., I dunno..., how "huge" "it" is?

Thanks for any clues. I know some things can't be explained and must be experienced directly.

MindGate

I am a beginner as well, but I can answer one question.

Shunryu Suzuki-roshi said that there is no goal in meditation. There shouldn't be a goal. Setting a goal, TRYING to do something isn't the purpose of meditation or Buddhism. You meditate just to meditate. You just do it.

Roger

Thank you MG. No problema. FWIW, I certainly do not have such a goal. :wow:

I was wondering what, so far as can be described, the most well-practiced meditators "see."

compassionate_warrior

One member here had a thread about the paranormal abilities that started cropping up and distracting him from meditation. From what I understand, that happens when you're fairly well along. I also know that studies show that meditation quiets the active, intellectual, left side of the brain, which gives free rein to the intuitive right side. That's how the clairvoyance, etc. comes in. And I think when you get really advanced, intuitive knowledge ("knowledge") about life and the universe comes pouring in, and you experience the fabled "oneness with all creation", and spiritual bliss. I have no first-hand experience with this, but this is what I read. You asked, this is what I can tell you. But MG is right; as you know, in Buddhism one doesn't have expectations about the outcome of anything, one maintains a detachment in that regard. Still, one does have curiosity about where one's practice might lead. I hope this helps.

shanyin

The Buddha did describe many things that come with regular meditation. Such as the eight jhanas and the 10 blessings, it helps with abandoning the 5 hinderances. Perhaps abandoning is the wrong word. A monk described to me the first jhana as bliss, the second bliss beyond bliss, third bliss beyond bliss beyond bliss and so on and so forth. The 10 blessings include knowing yourself, aquiring beautiful speach, magical powers etc. Freedom from hinderances is like freedom from slavery, sickness, debt, being lost in a desert, and being a prisoner.

I hope I don't make you indulge in fantasy or make you goal oriented!

The ultimate goal seems to be to experience nirvana.

Roger

Hello again guys. NO! I'm not goal oriented nor fantasy spellbound. As a lame analogy I'm curious about what it's like to walk on the Moon; I'm asking those who have been there. I assume there's a near-zero chance of me walking on the moon; I don't even wish for it. LOL. :rolleyes: See? Not quite a good analogy..., but close.

BTW, I'm very grateful for your thoughts.

TheJourney

What you mean there's no chance for u to walk on the moon? If someone else has than u have. In fact, it's right here right now at this very moment. It's just realizing it and breaking down the barriers.

MindGate

I haven't just walked on the moon, I've had sex with the moon.

TheJourney

I haven't just walked on the moon, I've had sex with the moon.

Word. You can do whateverdafuk u want with the moon.

MindGate

Screw the moon.

I wish we were a moon.

TheJourney

you are lol. I just am pretending that the moon is different from me so that I can enjoy the company.

compassionate_warrior

You two are crazy. Good crazy, but still...crazy!

DharmaField

When I meditate, not much happens, I don't worry about jhanas, or bliss, etc. It is just tap-tap-tap of the keyboard, and sometimes thinking about something (like should I share this?), and then that fades, going back to the tap-tap-tap, and then the saved draft sign, and now there is a bird singing, then re-reading to make sure the words make sense. Its all ordinary, breath by breath, moment by moment, allowing the true world to confirm itself, and slowly, if I maintain my focus, chi begins flows through my body filling it with thick love.

Blessed from the very beginning, the true world is available and it is only our mind that gets in the way of the great freedom. It is available even in slavery, sickness, debt, being lost in a desert, and being a prisoner - and it is there in a beginners meditation, patiently waiting for you to pay attention to her.

So, don't worry meditation is like riding a bike and takes practice, but if you look for something special, magical, blissful, these will only distract you. Fully appreciate the beauty of each single moment, and try to do this up until your last breath, that is my understanding of the Buddha's way. Only a clay Buddha always blissful and will not weep at the death of his dear friends, I suspect a real Buddha will experience loss as fully as he or she experiences life - knowing the impermanence of everything and yet, not detached like a machine.

compassionate_warrior

I like meditation because it quiets the mind. It's like a vacation for the mind. Just that alone makes it worth it.

DharmaField

TheJourney... is making perfect sense: walking on the moon with a boomp,boooomp,booomp

Roger

Hey guys. You are all very kind in making suggestions and describing your ways to help me meditate. Very warm, thoughtful and well-appreciated.

In your research did anybody here come across how meditative states are described by those who are nearing enlightenment?

Do they receive, achieve, experience a sense of..., oh boy..., here it comes..., sorry... "godliness?" The word is misleading, charged, replete with messy implications, but it has the smallest letter "g" possible.

Do "ordinary" people who have been practicing well get these sensations of "g" too? That's an awful word! Again, looking for accounts describing meditative state as vastness, huge-osity, etc. ..., like in original post.

I hate to resort to Googling "Meditation and Profound Experience." That would be the wild internet: you never know WHAT you're getting there! Unlike here at newbuddhist.com Kidding- trying to be funny.

seeker242

If you stop making profound/not profound, then everything becomes profound, without being profound. However, that takes practice! A bird singing can be very profound, but it's really not, it's just a bird singing. Who hasn't heard a bird singing?

Roger

Here's a 180 degree related question which has been puzzling me (again, no big deal for me emotionally, I'm just "academically" curious):

When people have "religious experiences" and then become, for example, "Born Again" or suddenly religiously devout Christians what are the chances their epiphanies were direct analogues to what well-practiced Buddhists commonly experience when they meditate?

IOW, does religious conviction come from _basically_ the same "stuff" as Buddhist meditators experience?

The religious person perhaps experiences brief flash of the meditative state and then is compelled to explain and characterize it via an elaborate belief system. Whereas the Buddhist just lets it be what it is: itself.

sukhita

I have read somewhere that trying to describe a meditative experience (say, insight into the real nature of phenomena) is like describing the subtle taste of honey to a person who has never eaten honey. Or, something to this effect.

compassionate_warrior

Here's a 180 degree related question which has been puzzling me (again, no big deal for me emotionally, I'm just "academically" curious):

When people have "religious experiences" and then become, for example, "Born Again" or suddenly religiously devout Christians what are the chances their epiphanies were direct analogues to what well-practiced Buddhists commonly experience when they meditate?

IOW, does religious conviction come from _basically_ the same "stuff" as Buddhist meditators experience?

The religious person perhaps experiences brief flash of the meditative state and then is compelled to explain and characterize it via an elaborate belief system. Whereas the Buddhist just lets it be what it is: itself.

This is a good question. I've only heard of the kind of religious experiences where people have visions; visions of Christ or a saint or some Christian figure. But it would make a fascinating study if you could interview people.

Write a letter to Jimmy Carter, ask him how he became "born again". He just might answer; he likes religious subjects.

caz

Ive caught a few glimpses of what I was looking at when the mind was still and focused and abiding in concentration, And goodness me it is certainly something to aim for

Ada_B

For me, the thrill in meditation is when you finally glimpse the fact that you are thinking - as if an outside observer of your thoughts. This enabled me to finally understand that my mind and my brain were not the same things. However, I could only keep this concentration up for a fraction of a second, before my flea-like brain started jumping around again.

It is rather like that scene in the Matrix, where they're in the practice arena and slow down the world so that they can see the Matrix operating. Everything slowed down for just a second so that I could see the processes of my mind. But then it was gone.

zombiegirl

Here's a 180 degree related question which has been puzzling me (again, no big deal for me emotionally, I'm just "academically" curious):

When people have "religious experiences" and then become, for example, "Born Again" or suddenly religiously devout Christians what are the chances their epiphanies were direct analogues to what well-practiced Buddhists commonly experience when they meditate?

IOW, does religious conviction come from _basically_ the same "stuff" as Buddhist meditators experience?

The religious person perhaps experiences brief flash of the meditative state and then is compelled to explain and characterize it via an elaborate belief system. Whereas the Buddhist just lets it be what it is: itself.

i once had a religious experience in which i felt i was directly spoken to by god. no joke, it saved my life. and i really believed it was god for a very long time.

i have since determined it was a trick of my mind due to the extreme depth of depression i was experiencing. i think that it can be said that if one is depressed enough to not feel pain, then one can certainly be depressed enough to feel disassociated with their own thought processes. nothing like that ever happened to me again though. i wasn't "born again" but it did give me a certain amount of conviction for my beliefs. the nature of it doesn't really matter to me anymore because i am just thankful that i was able to get through that difficult time in my life.

but in all honestly, i can perhaps see some parallels between this experience and my most profound experiences meditating. in those times, there is this feeling of "something outside myself" and both can be said to be very positive experiences. it is clear that a belief system can change the perception of the phenomena.

Roger

Here's something interesting zg.

http://www.bidstrup.com/mystic.htm

I like the "God Helmet" experiments by Dr. Persinger.

Definitely a very positive experience. Even though this might be only in the human realm, that does not exclude the certainty that something "HUGE" exists beyond that.

zombiegirl

Here's something interesting zg.

http://www.bidstrup.com/mystic.htm

I like the "God Helmet" experiments by Dr. Persinger.

Definitely a very positive experience. Even though this might be only in the human realm, that does not exclude the certainty that something "HUGE" exists beyond that.

that is a great article! thank you very much for sharing.

but it does make me wonder...
i always thought that those states i experienced while meditating are glimpses of true reality... the oneness of the universe and of energy and emptiness (or however you want to view it). now i wonder, is all meditation just another trick of the mind? a clever way to manipulate your brain to change your perception of reality? hm.

oh well, at least meditation helps my stress level... lol.

Roger

but it does make me wonder...
i always thought that those states i experienced while meditating are glimpses of true reality... the oneness of the universe and of energy and emptiness (or however you want to view it). now i wonder, is all meditation just another trick of the mind? a clever way to manipulate your brain to change your perception of reality? hm.

oh well, at least meditation helps my stress level... lol.

No. Not a problem. It's HUGE. _IT_ (all there is) can encompass every explanation we come up with. Dr Persinger has made it interesting! He has NOT answered The Big Questions. Matter of fact he himself distances his research from any promise of "ultimate" answers!

What you experience during meditation zombiegirl is one of the most marvelous things human beings can experience. [I don't know but I've been told ] Keep going for it! YEAH!

:clap:

TheJourney

but it does make me wonder...
i always thought that those states i experienced while meditating are glimpses of true reality... the oneness of the universe and of energy and emptiness (or however you want to view it). now i wonder, is all meditation just another trick of the mind? a clever way to manipulate your brain to change your perception of reality? hm.

It's all about what helps you. If you need to believe that there is a higher reality than the one you are experiencing right now, then sure, those glimpses during meditation were glimpses of the truth and of what is to come with practice. In truth, it is no more "true" than anything else. You are already experiencing the ultimate reality. The question is if you can accept it. If you can't, that's ok. That's why these ideas are out there, because some people need them. So take what you need.

CoffeeBean

Hi. I'm just a beginner. I'm not very good at meditation yet. I can barely get my breathing to be the sole awareness when I meditate. I'll get better, don't be concerned about that.

I would like to ask: what do the most advanced meditators experience in an ultimate sense?

Do certain forms of meditation involve getting glimpses (or glaring views) of Infiniteness? Profundity? The Ineffable? Unity?

Is that the ultimate goal of meditation?

I know there is a lot of different intents to meditation.

Short of achieving actual ___Enlightenment___, Do the "higher" forms of meditation, or the most difficult forms, or any forms yield a profound, inspiring yet ineffable sense of ..., I dunno..., how "huge" "it" is?

Thanks for any clues. I know some things can't be explained and must be experienced directly.

Wow that's a tall order! :O)

I concur with others that meditation is aimless by way of any set goal or
experience. Not sure what you mean by "advanced" though, but I will say there
are experiences of which can signal ones "progress" so to speak to which a teacher can gauge the experience. The "goal" for me is simply to sit the session forthright.

-/\-

CoffeeBean

IronRabbit

Sitting is just sitting. The HUGE is emptiness. The profound is in the mundane. Meditation is such a wonderful gift to give oneself that it is inevitably garlanded with penultimate imaginings. It is very ordinary. That is what is profound about it.

DaltheJigsaw

but it does make me wonder...
i always thought that those states i experienced while meditating are glimpses of true reality... the oneness of the universe and of energy and emptiness (or however you want to view it). now i wonder, is all meditation just another trick of the mind? a clever way to manipulate your brain to change your perception of reality? hm.

It's all about what helps you. If you need to believe that there is a higher reality than the one you are experiencing right now, then sure, those glimpses during meditation were glimpses of the truth and of what is to come with practice. In truth, it is no more "true" than anything else. You are already experiencing the ultimate reality. The question is if you can accept it. If you can't, that's ok. That's why these ideas are out there, because some people need them. So take what you need.

Can you elaborate on this a little bit?
It sounds so Zen!:)

[DeletedUser]

The profound experience with meditation is achieving the simple

TheJourney

but it does make me wonder...
i always thought that those states i experienced while meditating are glimpses of true reality... the oneness of the universe and of energy and emptiness (or however you want to view it). now i wonder, is all meditation just another trick of the mind? a clever way to manipulate your brain to change your perception of reality? hm.

It's all about what helps you. If you need to believe that there is a higher reality than the one you are experiencing right now, then sure, those glimpses during meditation were glimpses of the truth and of what is to come with practice. In truth, it is no more "true" than anything else. You are already experiencing the ultimate reality. The question is if you can accept it. If you can't, that's ok. That's why these ideas are out there, because some people need them. So take what you need.

Can you elaborate on this a little bit?
It sounds so Zen!:)

All that there is is the ultimate reality. The way in which we experience the ultimate reality is based on our views and our self-created ego. In a way you create your own reality, but there are all of these different routes out there that determine how we view our reality. But there is no distinction between this reality and the ultimate reality. In reality there is no reality but the ultimate.