Siddharta's teaching vs material world - what went wrong?

CSEe

Today majority of human trying their level best to keep young , stay healthy and ignor talking or thinking on death. Most of us including me fear sickness , fear old age and fear death simply because the world regard old age , sickness and death is SUFFERING . In Buddha I want to belief old age , sickness and death is simply a process of purification of our energy towards the pure energy- Buddha . It is a natural process and should be accepted if not calebrated . I wanted to belief this is also Siddharta's awareness / message . Picture this......if 2500 years ago , Siddharta had successfully in his afford ...well now there are no suffering in this world . We all will be happy to face our own death , having cancer is fun , money is exchance tools instead of " bone of all evil" , old age is a calebration and death is joy .......
Many so call Master of Buddha teaching constantly use the word suffering associate with old age , sickness and death. I belief and wanted to belief is not relevent .
But if really Siddharta regard old age , death and sickness is suffering well to me he should be blamed for causing misery to the world . His mustake cause suffering to billions of people , but frankly I wanted to belief his message is mistaken or wrongly quoted .
Lets discuss...
Thks
Ee

TheJourney

hahahhahaha right. first understand that all that exists is suffering, then understand that there is no suffering!

DhammaDhatu

if Siddharta really regarded old age , death and sickness as suffering, well, to me, he should be blamed for causing misery to the world . His mistake caused suffering to billions of people , but frankly, I want to believe his message is mistaken or wrongly quoted .

compassionate_warrior

He didn't cause misery in the world, there already was misery in the world, he simply observed it. He pointed out that all human beings are the same, irrespective of race, class, religion, etc., in that we all experience the suffering of illness, we will all die someday. We all experience emotional pain. Realizing this, we can have compassion for one another. Then he taught the path out of this suffering. What, exactly, was his "mistake"? Having cancer is suffering, but one can minimize the suffering by not clinging to it, not wrapping oneself up in the pain, using one's mind to overcome ordinary suffering. I know someone who manages to remain cheerful in spite of pain and illness. Not by pretending the pain doesn't bother him, but by focusing on the positive. He has much to be thankful for in life, we all do, but we forget this sometimes.

CSEe

I had difficulties paying my bills , putting food on the table that is pain ok is cause by my own greediness but is the pain accepted and understand by me and my family . We must learn and know what is pain and suffering . Birth , old age , sickness and death is not suffering in Buddha . Today I fear death , fear hv cancer , fear my daughter safety , fear my own coffin is simply because I am too weak to change my mindset , there are 7 billoions people out there fear death and cry on funeral.....so how can I feel differently ? So lets start to think differently ......

TheJourney

If it exists it has to exist! Don't fool yourself into believing in mistakes. You're just learning.

compassionate_warrior

CSEe, what is your native language?

What do you mean by "birth, old age, sickness and death is not suffering in Buddha"?
The Dalai Lama says that grief when a loved one dies is natural. You cry, but you don't cling to the grief and allow it to become depression. You let the emotion run its natural course, and you move on. Buddhism doesn't mean we pretend not to feel pain. But we don't get wrapped up in the pain.

CSEe

Hi warrior , I simply want to belief in Buddha birth , old age , sickness & death is not suffering .
Siddharta maybe is fortunate to hv live in the world that maybe no one of us had the chance to live in , he was at the best of material world . Therefore I belief is common sense that he fear old age , sickness and death far more than us and this allow / push him to the limit to experience extreame fear . His fear to losing his world had lead him to found this energy of perfection- the Buddha .
I wanted to belief by understanding Buddha we should see that suffering is never axist but if we feel the suffering is actually our own greed . We are too greedy to stay healthy , stay young and stay alive , we had fogotten abt our mission to purify our energy but pulled into the material world .
Suffering is actually greed .
Rdgs
Ee

compassionate_warrior

Well, we're not immortal; it's natural to age and die. Although I hear that the Taoists developed practices and treatments that allowed them to extend life to a remarkable degree. Even so, death comes eventually.

If by "greed", you mean "attachment", then you're right--suffering is attachment. And not everyone experiences death as suffering. Some go peacefully to death.

DhammaDhatu

I simply want to believe Buddha taught birth , old age , sickness & death is not suffering .

OK

Birth, old age, sickness & death is not suffering.

Real suffering is attaching to the five aggregates as "I" and "mine"

...in brief the five aggregates subject to grasping are suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.piya.html


So it is, householder. So it is. The body is afflicted, weak & encumbered. For who, looking after this body, would claim even a moment of true health, except through sheer foolishness?

So you should train yourself: 'Even though I may be afflicted in body, my mind will be unafflicted.' That is how you should train yourself."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.001.than.html

compassionate_warrior

So it is, householder. So it is. The body is afflicted, weak & encumbered. For who, looking after this body, would claim even a moment of true health, except through sheer foolishness?

So you should train yourself: 'Even though I may be afflicted in body, my mind will be unafflicted.' That is how you should train yourself."

Fantastic! Thank you, DD!

[DeletedUser]

He didn't cause misery in the world, there already was misery in the world, he simply observed it. He pointed out that all human beings are the same, irrespective of race, class, religion, etc., in that we all experience the suffering of illness, we will all die someday. We all experience emotional pain. Realizing this, we can have compassion for one another. Then he taught the path out of this suffering. What, exactly, was his "mistake"? Having cancer is suffering, but one can minimize the suffering by not clinging to it, not wrapping oneself up in the pain, using one's mind to overcome ordinary suffering. I know someone who manages to remain cheerful in spite of pain and illness. Not by pretending the pain doesn't bother him, but by focusing on the positive. He has much to be thankful for in life, we all do, but we forget this sometimes.

haha! precisely! - "birth, old age, sickness and death" in a material world is delusion like dream, and inherently, living beings' Buddhahood has no "birth, old age, sickness and death". And without the search & attainment of ultimate bliss by Buddha Sakyamuni, living beings still live in darkness. It is on the part of practitioners and not Buddha Sakyamuni's teaching

DhammaDhatu

He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow. And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.'

Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said?

'I am' is a construing. 'I am this' is a construing. 'I shall be' is a construing. 'I shall not be'... 'I shall be possessed of form'... 'I shall not be possessed of form'... 'I shall be percipient'... 'I shall not be percipient'... 'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' is a construing.

Construing is a disease, construing is a cancer, construing is an arrow. By going beyond all construing, he is said to be a sage at peace.

Furthermore, a sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die, is unagitated and is free from longing. He has nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not aging, will he die? Not dying, will he be agitated? Not being agitated, for what will he long?

It was in reference to this that it was said, 'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow. And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.140.than.html

CSEe

Hi The Journey , the purpose my self here is to learn and share ....sincerely . I admit my perception on Buddha , Siddharta , the practise of monk etc is rather different but I belief I could change my views after I acheive higher awareness . Currently thats my perception base on my current awareness but ofcause it is not final I could and may thinking differently after I acheive higher awareness . Example when I was 5 years old , toys is more important then girls , when I was 18 kissing a girl is more important then money and now at 40 money is more important then naked girl so it could be when I reach 60 money maybe is no longer important .

compassionate_warrior

Who needs a teacher and a sangha, when we have members like DD and Vangelis, Jason and others, who bring us these wonderful sutric texts? Thanks again, DD!

compassionate_warrior

when I was 5 years old , toys is more important then girls , when I was 18 kissing a girl is more important then money and now at 40 money is more important then naked girl so it could be when I reach 60 money maybe is no longer important .

This is a very interesting observation, CSEe. I think at 60, money will still be important, because we all have bills to pay, always, and as we get older, health care expenses take a larger portion of our budget. But I've been told that in later years, spiritual concerns do become more important.

DharmaField

Dear CSEe,

In Buddha I want to belief old age , sickness and death is simply a process of purification of our energy towards the pure energy- Buddha . It is a natural process and should be accepted if not calebrated .

This is clinging to a view, practice assiduously and perhaps you will find the Buddha is not the one you expect ... so, be prepared to be pleasantly surprised.

Also, seeing into suffering is a very important part of the path, don't short change yourself: from the realisation of suffering comes great compassion and without compassion the Buddha might as well have been made of rock.

CSEe

Hi warrior , replying yr question . I am chinese born in Malaysia could understand and write only English . Yes I wanted to belief in buddha birth , old age , sickness and death is not suffering . infact suffering does not axist in Buddha , suffering is actually our own greediness to stay young , to stay healthy and stay alive . Siddharta is just human like you and me , he is the founder of this energy but this does not mean he is the answer to all question . I had heard abt Dalai Lama politicly but pls in Buddha... all of us should strive to acheive higher awareness ....this is also part of Siddharta last wishes . I wanted to believe he said and mean this I quote " All composite thing pass away , strive for your own liberation with diligence " and " Believe nothing no matter where you read it or who have said it or even if I had said it unless it agrees with yr own reason 7 common sense ' I truly respect him on these two quote , prove that he had show us the Buddha side of him...
Pls dont quote me wrong , I just follow his lead / tips and also his advise .

compassionate_warrior

H infact suffering does not axist in Buddha , suffering is actually our own greediness to stay young , to stay healthy and stay alive .

Now I understand you, CSEe, and you're right. "Greediness" is called "attachment"; we are attached to life, so we don't want to be sick, we don't want to die. By clinging to youth we cause our own suffering, you're quite right.

Welcome to our online community.

CSEe

Hi worrior , my target is 60 ......just long enough to see my daughter independent . My wish is not to live long but to know the answer on afterlife / Buddha well enough give me confident to walk into coffin......as for me STILL coffin is fear.....I am still learning thats why I am here ......

compassionate_warrior

Why don't you want to live long? Are you afraid of the suffering of illness and old age? That's all in your mind, as the Buddha taught. 60 is still fairly young, these days, nothing to be afraid of.

Hi worrior , my target is 60

CSEe

Hi Dharma field , rock also a kind of energy , it also hv buddha energy . Rock had helps us build buildings around the world , give shelter to billions of people in cave or in building , roads , tiles etc . We could also see Buddha in rock . Siddharta is just human and at time of his death I wanted to belief still in purification process like you and me . Maybe he is in higher awareness compaired to billions of people but he too I wanted to belief in early part of his life before he found this energy .. he too greedy .
As I mentioned , we will find our Buddha differently as we move to higher awareness each day , and is a joy just like seeing our old friend ..... knowing Buddha is fun..... yes you are right dharma field , I am surprise ... my desire for material world maybe lesser , more love , accept own mistake and shortcoming and change each day................

CSEe

Hi warrior , age does not axist in Buddha infact time is human's own measurement but is not axist even in our natural world .I am more worry to die with more regrets ( karma ) or refuse to die in fear . If today someone can scientificly prove to me on afterlife well I will be more than happy to die ...... I maybe singing in coffin .......my wish is to tell / explained to my daughter the Buddha and the answer on afterlife so that she will not " suffer" like other human being .
I start discussing death / Buddha to my daughter since she was 4 years old and now I see she more calm when i talk to her about my death .

compassionate_warrior

But why 60, CSEe? The longer you live, the more time you have to accumulate good karma, and to help others to end their suffering. What's the hurry to leave this world? You could live to 90 or 100.

CSEe

Friend....thanks for the offer but even a BMW made of solid steel also not last so long.... enough that my target . I hope to die in park while watching beutiful girl jogging not in bed ok....
In Buddha I wanted to belief karma is regret of our own bad act . We could help each other by sharing our Buddha......but 80????? or 90???? No la friend at that age we could maybe sharing dipper .....

compassionate_warrior

60 is still young. At 80 you can die watching girls jogging in the park. Eat well, get regular exercise, meditate daily, do Qi Gong. You can live to 80 and still enjoy walking in the park.

CSEe

I never see myself at even 70, to me age is not a problem is only I worry abt my daughter if I die now , she just 10 . Siddharta can leave his son to his father because his father was a king but if i leave my daughter to my mom she will become begger......as for my beutifull wife I never worry .........

compassionate_warrior

If you die now? Why do you think you're going to die soon? (even 60 is relatively soon.) What is the average life expectancy in Malaysia? You'll see; when you reach 60, you'll think you're to young to die, yet. Still lots of living to do.

CSEe

I never think of that ..... just since aged 10 it only worry abt death so die 60 , or die 80 or 100 that is no different to me ...sooner or later but surely. We are just like a student going for examination soon........need to learn

compassionate_warrior

Right; there's no time to waste. We could die tomorrow, so we need to make the most of every day.

CSEe

that why in Buddha we must at any second of our life we hv to keep our " account close" meaning that if we give our very sincere best to all ( living and non-living ) each second in our life if one day we die or someone we know die we will not hv any regrets ( karma ) .

compassionate_warrior

Right you are, CSEe!