Is Siddharta teaching wrongly quoted and miss-lead??

CSEe

Lets discuss ok..........

CSEe

Lets forget what written in books ... or who have said it . Let focus on the
Siddharta simply finding .
Before we could begin I wanted and belief he did said this I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you read it or who hv said it or even if I hv said it unless it agrees with your own reason & common sense "
so lets begin :-

1. Siddharta want to search for answer to what he think is suffering ( of old age , sickness and death ) since he was in the very best of material world and wanted to stay that way forever. so is common sense he fear his own death to max and wanted to find his own liberation / answer .
2. He introduced to us by being awake - doing good and no greed , we will end all so call suffering .
3. We will end up with best place - Nirwana .
Yes I know is not that simply .....but That the way I wanted to see it since Buddha is easy to understand .Pls dont make it complicated .

So lets us discuss
Thks
Ee

DhammaDhatu

in the Pali language, the teachings of Siddharta are clear

in translation into English & other languages, there are disagreements about the meaning of words

you need to actually read the teachings & understand the words

for example, buddha taught (woman giving) birth, sickness, old age, death, pain, etc, is suffering

this is true for ordinary people in ordinary circumstances

today, I spoke to an old woman. i asked her: "How are you?" she replied: "my body is full of pain; old age is suffering"

but then Buddha said IN SUMMARY, attachment to things as "I" and "mine" is suffering

the Buddha said the cause of this suffering is craving or ignorant wanting

THEREFORE, when our mind thinks "my birth", "my sickness", "my old age", "my death", "i wish i was never born", "i wish I was not sick", "i do not want to die", "i wish my body did not have pain", this is suffering

try to understand what the Buddha said

it is not too difficult if you can free your mind from thinking "I", "me", "mine", etc

when you mind is free from thinking "I", "me", "mine", etc, the teaching will become clear

CSEe

hi Dharma, there are different between pain and suffering . We are in pain yes human do suffer because we does not understand Buddha . I wanted to belief Siddharta regards these old age , sickness and death is suffering BEFORE he found buddha ... ALL SUFFERING ENDS AFTER SIDDHARTA FOUND BUDDHA ENERGY . Human do not understand buddha before Siddharta great finding but from siddharta finding of Buddha energy , we must move to higher awareness that old age , sickness , birth & death is natural and we are actually in purification process towards Buddha .
Thks Ee

Cam

@CSEe Are you saying that old age, sickness and birth and death lead to buddahood? I'm inclined not to believe that, after all isn't enlightenment and buddahood the cessation of the cycle of suffering?

Edit: I think it's just your english and my inability to read. After rereading a couple of times I understand what you mean.

DhammaDhatu

The Buddha experienced pain but his mind did not suffer.

If we do not understand the difference between (physical) pain & suffering, we do not understand Buddha.

All the best

...when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed.

Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha

***

"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.

Itivuttaka: The Group of Twos

***

...whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither pleasant or painful, he abides contemplating (observing) impermanence in those feelings, contemplating (observing) fading away, contemplating (observing) cessation, contemplating (observing) relinquishment (letting go). Contemplating (observing) thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. Briefly, it is in this way, a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving.

Culatanhasankhaya Sutta (MN#37) -The Shorter Discourse on the Destruction of Craving

CSEe

I wanted to belief that all living and non-living are actually a source of energy moving towards the pure , un polluted source of energy THE BUDDHA . We are actually in purification process . Old age , sickness , death and birth is not related to Buddha but is a process of purification for all living thing. In life our energy is not pure / polluted with our bad action so when we move to higher awareness in life or afterlife we will regret and suffer our own bad action , thats is karma to me . We will re-born again as what we think we wish to be born say if I like to fish for fun and when I move to higher awareness I will regret my action and maybe I will be born again on my own will to be a fish to rectify my own mistake .
In Buddha only good energy , suffering is never there .
human suffer of not knowing or understand Buddha ..... I wanted to belief that Siddharta do regards old age , sickness and death is suffering BEFORE he found Buddha ... ALL SUFFERING ENDS AFTER SIDDHARTA FOUND BUDDHA .
We should understand that in Buddha we are in the process of purification towards buddha so old age , birth , sickness and death is NOT SUFFERING but part of the purification process .

Thks
ee

CSEe

Hi Dhama Siddharta experience pain because he is human like me and you , his mind did not suffer because he understand his Buddha .
we should understand that Siddharta is human and Buddha is the energy found by him. There are totally different.
In Buddha I wanted to belief pain , suffering , ill feeling , good deeds , bad action etc DOES NOT AXIST .I wanted to belief Buddha is pure perfect sound energy that does not hv any bad eliment .
Thks for sharing
Ee

DhammaDhatu

I have given you my opinion, already.

When our mind is free from thinking "I", "me", "mine", etc, we will know the Buddha.

All the best

DD

CSEe

Hi Dharma , thks for sharing I do agree and understand that . "i" "me" "mine" greed, selfish , ego , is too far from the energy of Buddha . In Buddha there are no me and you as individuals , our life is as same as a virus same as a grass . we are selfless . Love an ant same like love our children , love is equal to all living and non-living .
Thks for sharing
Ee

sukhita

Hi CSEe

.... We should understand that in Buddha we are in the process of purification towards buddha so old age, birth, sickness and death is NOT SUFFERING but part of the purification process.

..... I do agree and understand that "i" "me" "mine" greed, selfish, ego, is too far from the energy of Buddha. In Buddha there are no me and you as individuals, our life is as same as a virus same as a grass. we are selfless.

Reading the above statements in conjunction with your views on karma in this and other threads, I am beginning to understand your practice much better now. Your simple approach to the practice is quite refreshing, although we might have our wires crossed in some issues probably because of communication. It is quite hard to explain our inner thoughts on the Buddha in words. Also, I like the fact that you do not complicate the Buddha (or Buddha-Dharma) by including complicated philosophical and metaphysical jargon. I'm am looking forward to read about your views on other aspects of the practice, for example "meditation".
Kind regards,
S

CSEe

Meditation , or yoga or what so call mind exercise out there is a form of mind practise and never associated with Buddha . As I mentioned before we could learn Buddha energy from all source living or non-living , human or animal , virus or plant . Meditation maybe a one of the way use by Siddharta in his search.....Thats is his way....let it be...you may hv different way.... so does the dogs... the cow....all will hv different way in search for Buddha ...but should not associated with Buddha . Buddha has no certain way to understand...like just now while I was at a coffee shop drinking coffee with mny wife .... infront of me there was 2 young man . One of them drop his own book but was pick up by another stranger from another table whom they do not know.....that selfless act is Buddha..... simple right ? I learned from that simple incident... that easy to know Buddha...
Thks
Ee

sukhita

@CSEe
Thank you for responding to my request. Again, you make a good point that everybody one meets and everything one comes across teaches us something all the while. The world we live in ceaselessly offers its reality in a multitude of forms; all we have to do is to accept it as it comes in an unselfish way, free of greed, anger, ill-will, and hatred. So, perhaps we can practice Buddha without formal sitting meditation. By meditation I mean, for example, like sitting cross-legged in the lotus position and watching the sensation of air brush past your nostrils. There are many types of meditation and people make their own choices. I don't think anybody knows for sure what method of meditation Siddharta taught his disciples/monks. Maybe, someone in this forum with more experience can comment. I'm just a beginner finding his way.

But my personal thoughts are that meditation is essentially an exercise in mental cultivation. I know from experience that shamatha meditation, for example, can bring some calm and stillness in our lives. I have not practiced other forms of meditation and have experienced no insights I can talk about. Despite all this, I am convinced that meditation, in whatever form, does influence our being for the better. But these are just my thoughts, and you are free to disagree with it. But, as always, I am open to new ideas from everyone.
Metta

Arahahahant

Meditation is absolutely necessary, it allows for a deeper understanding of dharma that can not be achieved without penetrating deeper into our own minds. There are multiple levels of understanding,conscious and subconscious. Without meditation you can't penetrate your subconscious and the real change only comes through subconscious understanding.

CSEe

Meditation to be is a form of body / mind exercise and NEVER associated with Buddha . For me ( dont follow is dangerous ok ) I like to think while i driving car . But chantting or expect other external power is not associated with Buddha . We dont expect anything from Buddha energy and Buddha will not help you to get better in yr life in term of material , health , wealth or luck . Understanding buddha helps you in purification process .

Arahahahant

What are you talking about meditation being never associated with the Buddha? Do you know what meditation is? It's not chanting, it has nothing to do with external powers. The Buddha taught meditation, he taught mindfulness, he told people to meditate. Seriously, read something about Buddhism, I'm really not sure where you're getting your information about Buddhism, read the suttas or something.

Vincenzi

medition is important... but it is not everything.
when you look at buddha in trees, and nature, in water... you are actually meditating! ッ

CSEe

Hi Arahahahant , In Buddha I want to belief is a pure/perfect sound energy that all living / non-living evolved towards this energy , is final destination of all . This great energy found by Siddharta maybe by his own personal way-meditation . Buddha energy is in all living and non-living , there are trillions of way to know Buddha energy we just have to be aware and awake . Sincerely empty our mind from ego , selfishness and fill it with sincere feeling to give love , show love and accept love will open our mind to learn / understand Buddha . Medidation simply a exercise method like yoga , taichi etc is not , never and will not associated with Buddha .
Siddharta is human like us , he eat , sleep , get sick , make love , hv family and suffer like me ( correction maybe not in some way because his father is rich so he dont need to pay for his bill ) BEFORE he found Buddha but after he found Buddha ALL SUFFERING ENDS but still at time of his death I belief he still human like you and me . You maybe know Buddha energy from yr "teacher" or books but I found Buddha frm other way .... the dogs / cat / lion may found their Buddha from another way certainly you dont expect them to read...right?
Thks for sharing
Ee

Arahahahant

No, Buddha is not a thing you find, it's a person. Dogs and cats don't find this "buddha" that your talking about. I don't know what your talking about but it has pretty much nothing to do with Buddhism.

CSEe

Hi Arahahant , I am in process of purification so call learning and I belief all of us ( living and non-living ) are the same . Siddharta as far as I want to belief is a person he was the person found Buddha . All animal or even non-living will evolve in their own awareness towards Buddha the final destination for all.
Maybe try to "meditate" be calm free your self from all negetive feeling feel my sincere love to share .....maybe you will see your Buddha. Siddharta after he found Buddha ....I can say speed up his purification process . Buddha never and will NEVER EVER be in isolated inside a human body .....so Siddharta IS NOT THE BUDDHA.
Is energy founded by Mr Siddharta .
Thks
Ee

Cloud

Few things CSEe:

One, you keep saying "I want to belief[...]", though you don't seem to know anything of the Buddha's true history and teachings. These have been passed down by the monks since his time by oral and then written tradition. You made the statement that he sought out the answers because he was rich etc. and wanted to find a way to stay that way permanently... this is not a historical account. The historical account is that he sought out the truth because ultimately all material things are unsatisfactory and we all grow old and die. He abandoned all his "material" things for 6 years living in secluded places and going without any kind of luxuries.

You deny meditation, though meditation is part of the Buddha's Noble Eightfold Path and is key to developing the calm and focused mind that is able to tackle the truth of reality with clarity and one-pointedness.

"The Buddha" is not energy, it is a title given to the Awakened One who taught the path to Nirvana. Nirvana is also not energy, it is simply "non-clinging" or "the non-clinging mind" as opposed to our current predicament which is a clinging mind based on ignorance, from which arises greed, hatred and delusion.

You refuse to read anything, though even the Buddha's teachings are assuredly translated into your language. Therefore you misrepresent the Buddha by perpetuating your own ignorance and then getting into arguments with those who have studied his teachings, which are not that difficult, when you say things contrary to even the core teachings of all forms of Buddhism. If you can not be bothered to read the basics in your own language, how can people be bothered to take you seriously? You do say a few things that are true, but it's not Buddha that you're talking about... it's your own beliefs about someone you've never read about.

In short, the Buddha's teachings are about suffering and the cessation of suffering through understanding the impermanent and selfless reality that we struggle against by imposing our own desires. These desires are the source of our suffering. You'll stop having such a hard time on forums creating a dozen threads only to have everyone yell at you if you would simply read up on these teachings.

I don't mean to be "mean", but if you can't recognize your own stubbornness on this issue then you doom yourself to continued suffering, and are therefore way off the mark on understanding the Buddha! You have time to keep talking (a lot) about the same things on forums (not just this forum). Try to stop making excuses to us and to yourself why you can not do some studying to find out who the Buddha really was and what he taught and we may be able to see eye-to-eye in the future.

Namaste

Jeffrey

"In short, the Buddha's teachings are about suffering and the cessation of suffering through understanding the impermanent and selfless reality that we struggle against by imposing our own desires."

Actually thats exactly what CSEe was saying in my opinion. He just didn't read the same book.

@ OP I like discovered rather than found personally because it can't be nailed down