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It's as simple as this..change your life..

edited January 2011 in General Banter
I think i've figured it out..

we are ALL what I call GHOSTS.

its ironic, when we live we ARE GHOSTS. when we die the ghost ..well im not sure , but we LOSE this ghost and take on another...


THE BUDDHA, i think, saw that he was just a ghost, just a brain creation, and he saw through it, what he saw was epic..
if we eliminate the ghost ..what's left is...the whole thing..


you guys should try hard to realize this truth.. "TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU CREATE... and embrace that which CREATES YOU"

or something like that... (thefound 2011)
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Comments

  • You are the creator and that which is created.
  • If people could see who they truly were...let's just say, the world would be much different.
  • sure but..dont joke around, you and I can only see glimpses tho right?
    I have yet to distiguish what's underneath the mess
  • Dude...it's all that exists. Everything that is here must have a purpose. We cannot think a thought that does not have truth to it. It all must have existence. Therefore it all must be "it." Nothing exists beyond it. Therefore you're seeing it right now. You ARE it right now.

    DOUBT is the biggest problem in this world right now. If you could stop doubting, and thinking you're not there yet or you have work to do, the world would open up to you.
  • wtf are u talking about..i think you and I are both slightly off
  • edited January 2011
    I'm loosing doubt and fear..pain is becoming dull to me..all these things point to a horrible truth..
    I don't know how to explain it ...

    What matters?
  • WHAT really fucking matters...?!
    if we are all..of COURSE ghosts.. what the fuck matters?
  • i think it's important we all slap ourselves in the face and figure this out
  • someone did that 2500 years ago.. im doing it now..lets rock the fuckin goat
  • It's not a horrible truth. It's a wonderful truth.
  • is it really wonderful that we are all ghosts?
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    I have to stop coming on this forum.
  • is it really wonderful that we are all ghosts?
    We're not all ghosts. We're all it. God, the tao, whatever. You're it. Nothing exists that is not you. Your world is a manifestation of your mind.
  • Kind of like Ghost in the Shell, to me anyway.

    When the body dies, the minds(or ghosts) all roam in some area, and the 'ghosts' are exactly the same, because it's just the ability to be 'awake.' I suppose. We create individuality through life, because we experience and perceive things differently from everyone else. One situation can have millions of different interpritations.

    Not having a ghost is kind of like being in a coma, I /think/. But if there was no ghost, there couldn't be a shell.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    Each "thing" is a reflection of everything else. Our bodies are reflections of conditions (incl. human actions) that brought them into this state and conditions that cause them to change (incl. our actions). Our minds are a reflection of the world; the mind inside reflects the world outside that has been and continues to be experienced.

    We're not ghosts in a shell. There is neither ghost nor shell, inside nor outside, you nor I. The mind and body are inextricably connected to and part of the "outside" in the same way they are connected to each other. The delusion of separate self is insanity, and most of us are certifiable.

    Namaste
  • what is this separation you speak of????????????????????
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    There is none, except in delusion (i.e. self view and duality).
  • So if there is no separation between you and the world, can you have control of the world??? You can control yourself, and if you're not separate from the world then doesn't it follow that you can control the world??? If not, what is the solution to this dilemma?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    @TheJourney, Who controls? What controls? Mind is that which experiences the senses, feelings, thoughts. Remove the self-view that has arisen out of ignorance and there's no one to impose their will, there are only conditions. By talking about having control of the world, that creates a separation as if the world is something other than what you already are that is subject to control to begin with.
  • So if there is no thing to control, nor person to control it, then you have no control over yourself, right??? So your free will is an illusion??? Your consciousness is an illusion???
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    I think i've figured it out..

    we are ALL what I call GHOSTS.

    its ironic, when we live we ARE GHOSTS. when we die the ghost ..well im not sure , but we LOSE this ghost and take on another...


    THE BUDDHA, i think, saw that he was just a ghost, just a brain creation, and he saw through it, what he saw was epic..
    if we eliminate the ghost ..what's left is...the whole thing..


    you guys should try hard to realize this truth.. "TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU CREATE... and embrace that which CREATES YOU"

    or something like that... (thefound 2011)
    Perhapes you should have a read of some of the Sutras to give you a bit more direction...You might find you can peice together things abit better. :)
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    @TheJourney, I suppose Anatta/Not-Self needs to be the focus to understand what I'm talking about.
  • @caz, hold up. So the truth is found within the sutras??? And the truth is not within you??? And you aren't the truth??? So the truth is separate from you??? So when you learn the truth, you are no longer the same person? Because if it's not you now, and you can learn it and make it a part of you, then you're a different person. So how do you exist now, if there is no truth within you?? Can there be false existence?? So is all existence false?? Is the only real existence knowing the truth??? what??
  • @TheJourney, Thought you were awake TJ. :D
    bro, i'm tryin to help you see the truth in what you already see. I talk to christians as if God were real and jesus were his son and came to earth 2,000 years ago. Don't worry about what I say. I say what I say for a reason. I'm not trying to change you, but there is refinement left to be done. You understand, but i'm trying to make you understand the truth of your own words and truth and understand what you're really saying. I'm trying to push you. Not to change you, but to make you really understand what you already understand.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    @TheJourney, That's not how you were coming off. So if you'd like to do that, I'll answer that yes free will is an illusion. It seems that you have control, but really everything you think and do is determined by the conditioned mind and what experiences or thoughts arise to react with that conditioned state. Life is a chain reaction that is experienced, but there's no "self" that experiences that is separate.
  • @TheJourney, That's not how you were coming off. So if you'd like to do that, I'll answer that yes free will is an illusion. It seems that you have control, but really everything you think and do is determined by the conditioned mind and what experiences or thoughts arise to react with that conditioned state.
    hmmmm....interesting. So, when the taoists say that the ultimate power is going with the flow that already is, are they correct??? Or do you have the same power regardless of what you do???
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    I don't know what "power" that's supposed to mean. There's no way to go against the flow, because you're part of the flow.
  • edited January 2011
    @TheJourney, I suppose Anatta/Not-Self needs to be the focus to understand what I'm talking about.
    lol. trust me, I know not-self. I could make the same argument with you. You should know that I understand what you're saying. I'm not saying that you're wrong. You're misinterpreting me. But once you understand it's not all lalala I know everything no one can tell me anything. Unless that's what you want. In which case, we don't need to have this conversation. I am only here to help, and when my help is not wanted from someone I don't need to be there. And i'm not saying I know more than you either. We help each other.
  • @TheJourney, I'm enjoying our conversation, and if you say you're trying to help me then I'm all for it and appreciate it, and will continue if you will. :D
  • I don't know what "power" that's supposed to mean. There's no way to go against the flow, because you're part of the flow.
    That is true. Do you believe that you are in the pure land right now?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    What do you mean by pure land? I know there's a form of Buddhism that deals with that, but I'm not attached by forms of Buddhism.
  • edited January 2011
    Do you believe that you are in a world where everyone is enlightened and everything is perfect?(i'm not saying that's what a pure land is, i'm just trying to make a point)
  • There's no one to be enlightened, only wrong thoughts or views perpetuated by ignorance, and "perfection" doesn't have any meaning when there's no unchanging phenomena to apply it to... I think things work just the way they work.
  • edited January 2011
    So you believe that there is such a thing as ignorance? Does that not imply that there is such a thing as wisdom? And if there is ignorance and there is wisdom, then there is separation and you do not truly understand these things. That is what i've been driving at. If you still believe in ignorance and suffering, there is still work to be done. If you can truly understand, the world will be yours. I can't explain what I mean if you're not there yet or you haven't experienced it, but trust me when I say the world can be yours.(it already is, but that's a whole nother subject. It can become much more obvious.)
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    Rather than ignorance and wisdom being two separate concepts, I think of them as two parts of the same concept. My brain is... what's the word, tingling, right now. You might be hitting it in the right spot with the right words.
  • edited January 2011
    lol i'm glad to be of service :) Is it possible to be wise while someone else is ignorant?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    Depends, on of what. I'd take wisdom and ignorance to refer to how we view mind and its objects, in short the truths of our reality. They're still just concepts. We are what we are, how we are, because of conditions and this is natural; so is the change.
  • "Depends, on of what." So in other words there are different things. So in other words, there is separation.

    "I'd take wisdom and ignorance to refer to how we view mind and its objects..." so there is such a thing as wisdom, ignorance, mind, and objects???? sounds like a whooooole lot of separation to me
  • Well how should I explain it? You say separation, but I mean parts of one whole integrated reality. The nature of our language is duality, even if you know this separation is not real...
  • You should explain it by literally believing in what you already know. All that there is is ignorance. And yet since there is no truth to learn which could make you lose ignorance, there is no such thing as ignorance. What i'm telling you is that things could be no other way than how they are. That means things could not possibly be better. That means everything is perfect. There is no such thing as suffering. There is no such thing as ignorance. There only is what you choose to believe in. I believe in perfection. Therefore there is perfection.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited January 2011
    I agree that things could be no other way than how they are, but "perfect" is still just a relative and dualistic term. Perfect implies there's such a thing as imperfection.
  • Gooble gooble gabble gabble.
  • Very true. But you have to believe in something. Your mind has to be thinking something. Or else you wouldn't be here. Your mind is inseparable from reality. Your mind creates your reality. Since nothing is ultimately true, yet there still must be something or else there would be nothing, we have this wonderful ability to choose. Everyone is choosing what reality they live in. Understand that. There is no reality, there is simply self-created perception of reality. But since you're here, THERE IS STILL BELIEF. There has to be. What world do you want to live in? What is perfect for you? I know the truth of my words, more than I ever have. Because no longer is it something that I understand. I am literally seeing it in my world. You wouldn't believe the stuff that's been going on with me.

    I believe you understand. So let me tell you something. You can do whatever you want with it, i'm just telling you because it's wonderful if you can accept it and truly integrate it. Jesus was right when he said the meek would inherit the earth. Literally. No truer words have ever been spoken. You can have what you want. I promise you that. The thing is, though, it can NOT be done how you and everyone else thinks it can be done. You must go with the flow. You must retain your desires, but yet not try to assert them over anyone else's. You must understand that you are no different than anyone else. You are no better. What you want is no more important. If you can do this, on top of understanding reality as it is, magically everything you want will come into being. People will just start giving you things that you want. People will just talk about whatever you want to talk about. The world will literally become yours. All because you're only playing your part, not trying to diminish other people's parts. You may not believe me. Most won't. But i'm living it right now.
  • @TheJourney, Most interesting conversation I've had in... well I can't remember how long. Great food for thought, and most of it does make sense. Thank you.
  • edited January 2011
    glad to have it! :)
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    @caz, hold up. So the truth is found within the sutras??? And the truth is not within you??? And you aren't the truth??? So the truth is separate from you??? So when you learn the truth, you are no longer the same person? Because if it's not you now, and you can learn it and make it a part of you, then you're a different person. So how do you exist now, if there is no truth within you?? Can there be false existence?? So is all existence false?? Is the only real existence knowing the truth??? what??
    My suggestion to read the Sutras was so that people with a slight incline of No-self could articulate themselves better with Buddhas guidelines. :)
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    @caz, hold up. So the truth is found within the sutras??? And the truth is not within you??? And you aren't the truth??? So the truth is separate from you???
    False dilemma: (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black and white thinking or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options.
    :p
  • Ok. I said either the truth is without of you or it is within you. You say it is neither. What is it, then?
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Ok. I said either the truth is without of you or it is within you. You say it is neither. What is it, then?
    None of the above perhaps?

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