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Meditating with open eyes takes away my mindfulness but keeps my eyes normal. Need help

pffpff
edited January 2011 in Meditation
I am sorry I don't know how to specifically post something in the meditattion section. Everytime I had a question about my meditation practice, I found an answer on this board, so I subscribed to ask a question to which I cannot find an answer anywhere.
I started meditating with my eyes closed, and had been doing so 1 hourd weekly for a few years before starting to meditate daily (eyes closed) for 2 months. Doing it daily, a problem occured. My eyes hurt terribly, they were squinting (even with my eyes closed) during meditation and my vision was worse the rest of the time.
I therefore decided to meditate with half-closed/open eyes. The pain is totally gone in my eyes BUT I can not or can hardly stop my thinking process when I meditate with my eyes open. My mindfulness is gone when I meditate with eyes open, I keep pace with my breath but do not feel present.
Any advice from anyone would be so much appreciated!!! Thanks for reading my long story

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I don't know but a lot of meditation teachers advise open eyes such as the tradition of Pema Chodron and her teachers etc. I think that if you practice with the racing thoughts it would be a great practice. Then when you get to a time in your life that is difficult you will have prepared for that on the cushion.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I don't know but a lot of meditation teachers advise open eyes such as the tradition of Pema Chodron and her teachers etc. I think that if you practice with the racing thoughts it would be a great practice. Then when you get to a time in your life that is difficult you will have prepared for that on the cushion.
    Really?
    A lot of meditation teachers advise for open eyes?
    Any links or books on that?
    Would love to read that.
    Thanks!
    Leon
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    I've always heard eyes open to prevent getting sleepy, which defeats the purpose of meditation. Eyes half open is fine, just don't shut them completely and be tempted to snooze.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2011
    Leon,

    Pema Chodron describes this early on in 'when things fall apart' I think within the first 4 or 5 chapters. Trungpa Rinpoche also describes meditation methods in several of his books such as the path of the sacred warrior (is that what its called?) and another called Smile at Fear (I think thats right). He was her teacher at one time.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Leon,

    Pema Chodron describes this early on in 'when things fall apart' I think within the first 4 or 5 chapters. Trungpa Rinpoche also describes meditation methods in several of his books such as the path of the sacred warrior (is that what its called?) and another called Smile at Fear (I think thats right). He was her teacher at one time.
    Very interesting!
    Thank you I will have to do some research on that.
    Thanks again.
  • BarraBarra soto zennie wandering in a cloud in beautiful, bucolic Victoria BC, on the wacky left coast of Canada Veteran
    Both Soto and Rinzai Zen advise to keep the eyes open. In Soto we sit facing the wall - preferably something really plain and uninteresting. Keep the eyes 'soft' (unfocused) and the chin tucked in slightly so you are focussed (if you were focused) about 3-4 feet in front of you. Try to take your attention away from the visual and instead pay attention to the hearing. I find this useful for when I - inevitably - find myself thinking. If I hear a car horn or a motorcycle outside, it reminds me to clear my mind.
    Don't get all worked up about finding yourself thinking. It happens. Just let it go. I find often that while I may have thoughts, I am not so much engaged in them. They're more like an out of focus movie just sort of meadering through, in a dream like fashion.
  • CoffeeBeanCoffeeBean
    I've always heard eyes open to prevent getting sleepy, which defeats the purpose of meditation. Eyes half open is fine, just don't shut them completely and be tempted to snooze.
    Yes. Half open and downcast towards the floor to help avoid further visual distractions.

    Btw Pff, its completely natural to experience racing thoughts. Just acknowledge them and let it go. Don't entertain concerns over this during your sitting and/or that you don't feel present. Monkey mind does that. Sounds like things are O.K based on your posting. I would also recommend counting for awhile to help sharpen your focus for the time being as this should make sitting an easier go once you develop a sharper focus.

    -/\-

    CoffeeBean

  • Ada_BAda_B
    I get sore eyes that water a lot (part of my medical condition), so I mostly keep them shut and if I drift off, I open them slightly and stare at my candle for a few seconds. It's not a problem. Open eyes is probably easier for meditation but that is not always possible. For me, closed eyes is less distracting as I don't have to constantly wipe my eyes.
  • pffpff
    Thank you for your comments.
    It is frustrating that I was able to be so mindful before and I feel like a rat on ecstasy when I meditate now with my eyes open. But it is my path.
  • Ada_BAda_B
    You're just learning a new skill, that's all. Nothing to be worried about, just keep practising - with eyes shut or eyes open. Perhaps you should do a bit of both? Open eyes when you can, and shut when you can't.
  • buddhajunkiebuddhajunkie

    1. Try walking meditation

    2. Try to find out why your were squinting when your eyes were closed.
  • havamarhavamar
    edited February 2011
    Meditate in darkness and keep your eyes open.
  • zenpocalypsezenpocalypse
    it is a good practice to meditate with your eyes slightly open (and as our friends here have mentioned) glancing a couple of feet ahead of you.

    do not concern yourself with specifics. do not worry about tension in your eyes, or this or that. being able to meditate "properly" takes time and dedication.

    imagine your mind as a cup of water from a river. there will be healthy amounts of water in it as well as a variety of sedimentary material. when your mind is active and swirling ("why does my glance not stay stationary?", "why cant i focus for more than a few seconds?") you will see nothing in the muddy waters. questions will give rise to more questions because of this.

    if you allow your mind to settle on its own, you will quickly see just how clear and sharp your mind can become. then, the real journey begins.

    as a certain master dogen once said,

    your only concern should be,
    as thought follows thought,
    to avoid clinging to any of them.
  • bhikshoesbhikshoes
    eyes open is suggested by chogyam trungpa rinpoche as an easier progression/transition from the cushion to every day life. i made the switch from eyes closed to open recently and have indeed found this to be true for myself...but it is a challenge to work with the additional sensory stimulation.

    having several people explain their personal experience of "soft eyes" was very helpful.
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited February 2011
    Just do some of both whenever you feel comfortable. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can combine different kinds of meditation. If that brings you more peace, that's great. Maybe only eyes closed on mondays or whenever you feel like it is the better thing to do. Meditation should never be a fight.

    I sometimes have troubles with shaking eyelids and eyes going wild. But instead of becoming annoyed by it, I keep with it, letting it be and sent some kindness and relaxation to that area of my face. Usually it will disappear after a while. And yes, sometimes if it doesn't go away and I become too annoyed by it, I open my eyes and do meditation with my eyes open instead. Almost always I can close my eyes again later when I'm more relaxed.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I like what Sabre says. I also have problems with blinking eyes but when I don't let it get to me it feels much better. That is when I don't have thoughts that 'this isn't how it should be' or whatever. Nothing wrong with not wanting the distraction however, but just make the best of it.
  • pffpff
    Just a heads up it has been a bit more than a month. With perserverance I was able to meditate with eyes half open as suggested. It is easier and easier everyday. And my eyes don't hurt anymore. Thanks for all your suggestions and advices.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    When I meditate, I do so by first concentrating on an ornament I have of the Buddha as I go for refuge, then on the flame of a candle, which I find extremely good at focusing my mind, then after 10-20 mins, I turn my attention to my breath while half closing my eyes trying to be mindful. Finally once I feel my mind is really calm, I concentrate on either metta bhavana or impermanence.


    Metta to all sentient beings
  • finding0finding0 Veteran
    Unfocus your eyes. pay not attention to clolors, shapes, and light that the yes preceive. Be aware of the emptiness in between. Here is a great meditation for those who have difficulty with simple meditation. In this video it will be said to close your eyes. Simply do what i told you. To make it easier try to make the room you are in dark as possible.

  • johnathanjohnathan Canada Veteran
    What is this preoccupation with the aversion to distraction? Meditation is a practice of concentration... If you eliminate all distractions what are you practicing? I meditate with eyes open and welcome distractions of all kinds. When a distraction occurs I note it and return to the breath. Which to me is the point of it all... We practice in meditation so that we can hone our focus in our every day life which is full of distractions... If we can't do it during our practice how can we ever hope to have true focus when we really need it.

    Perhaps I have the purpose all wrong but when you practice the 8-fold path you practice it in your every day life... Samma Sati and Samma Samhadi just don't come from nowhere... They come from meditation practice.

    So IMO, stop avoiding distraction, allow them to occur. Note it, return to the breath... With every noise, every movement, every distraction allows us to be mindful of the distraction and to realign our focus.

    NOTE: I only practice Anapanasati so perhaps this opinion might not and at a low level without instruction so ignore my comments or set me straight if I'm way off the mark on this one. I will be taking a 3 month Vipassana course starting at the end of this month.
  • ArjquadArjquad Veteran
    Last week I meditated with my eyes open while staring at a fixed point in my room (in this case a corner on my shelf since it was in my sight line) and the more I meditated I could easily tell that my vision was growing blacker and blacker until I could not see anything but blackness but my eyes were still open. It was an amazing feeling.
  • HappyMondaysHappyMondays
    What is this preoccupation with the aversion to distraction? Meditation is a practice of concentration... If you eliminate all distractions what are you practicing? I meditate with eyes open and welcome distractions of all kinds. When a distraction occurs I note it and return to the breath. Which to me is the point of it all... We practice in meditation so that we can hone our focus in our every day life which is full of distractions... If we can't do it during our practice how can we ever hope to have true focus when we really need it.

    Perhaps I have the purpose all wrong but when you practice the 8-fold path you practice it in your every day life... Samma Sati and Samma Samhadi just don't come from nowhere... They come from meditation practice.

    So IMO, stop avoiding distraction, allow them to occur. Note it, return to the breath... With every noise, every movement, every distraction allows us to be mindful of the distraction and to realign our focus.

    NOTE: I only practice Anapanasati so perhaps this opinion might not and at a low level without instruction so ignore my comments or set me straight if I'm way off the mark on this one. I will be taking a 3 month Vipassana course starting at the end of this month.
    Good luck Johnathan! That's a nice long retreat! Thank you for your dedication and inspiration.
    That goes to everyone writing here!
    As for eyes open, I used to meditate with eyes closed, but now half open, 4-5 feet downcast in front of me. At first my carpet patterns were too distracting for a new meditator, then I placed a white simple cotton bedsheet in front of me. It helped, but even then I was seeing patterns in it, and in the middle of what I thought was deep mindfulness found myself turning the subtlest folds and shadows into animal faces or objects, and my mind would venture off into fantasyland:) So, as has been said above, learning to deal with the distractions of the visual stimulus seems to be quite revelatory and helpful!
  • johnathanjohnathan Canada Veteran
    @HappyMondays

    The Vipassana course is an on-line course through the Vipassana Fellowship. I wish I had the time and resources to attend a retreat.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Last week I meditated with my eyes open while staring at a fixed point in my room (in this case a corner on my shelf since it was in my sight line) and the more I meditated I could easily tell that my vision was growing blacker and blacker until I could not see anything but blackness but my eyes were still open. It was an amazing feeling.

    I think there are some advantages to meditating with eyes open. like being less likely to fall asleep and not plagued by visual images. But there are pros and cons.

    P
  • NewstatesmanNewstatesman
    edited March 2011
    I'm not sure how eyes open is better. After reading this thread I tried it and found there wasn't much difference apart from more distraction?

    Can someone explain how eyes open is better?

    With eyes closed I never get sleepy and I find myself more focused.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Can someone explain how eyes open is better?


    I'm not saying it's better, but like I said there are pros and cons and people are different. Some people find that resting their gaze on a fixed point with eyes open is less distracting than closing their eyes and being plagued by visual images. If what you're doing is working for you then stick with it.

    P
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