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I need compassion for idiots
Sigh. I really do try you know. I've got some woman ranting at me on a site because I stated that if dating someone spoils your friendship, it can't be a very good friendship. I dispute this theory that if you really like someone and are good friends with them, you should not turn the relationship into a romance as you'll lose that friendship. In my humble opinion, people only say that kind of stuff because they don't fancy their friend and are trying to spare their friend's feelings.
Mind you, it explains the divorce rate if people only marry people they're not friends with!
Maybe it's because I'm gay, and lesbians have always "traditionally" been friends with their exes. It's a sort of in-joke, actually. But what is a friendship worth if it is so easily broken? Or are people so dysfunctional that if they get too close to their friends, it will destroy their friendship?
Of course, I didn't say all of this. I simply stated that it if two people were really close friends, and cared about each other a lot, then a romance would not destroy their friendship.
The woman who got mad at me allegedly had a friend and they decided some years ago not to date in case it would "destroy their friendship". She attributes the fact that they are still friends to this day on this decision. I suppose what might be making her mad is the implication that that was the wrong decision, or that her friend was being dishonest when he cited this as a reason not to date her (maybe he just didn't fancy her?).
Where the idiot bit comes in is not in this woman thinking you can only date people you're not good friends with (although that sounds rather sad to me), nor in her decision not to date this person who was allegedly her "best friend in the world", but in her utter inability to understand what I'm trying to explain. Which resulted in her venting her spleen at me and calling me names.
Apparently I'm arrogant. Well, I have Aspergers so that's sometimes the way it might come across, but actually I wasn't being arrogant at the time, I was being exasperated trying to explain my logic!
I did mention that of course, although I married one best friend, I haven't married all of them. That would be impractical! And since she never dated her "best friend" we can never test out my theory that good friends wouldn't hate each other after dating. I suspect the truth is that she was not half so happy as she made out about this arrangement. It would explain her fury.
I was already feeling fed up because on another site, I got into trouble for saying that Harry Potter was a children's book (not saying you can't read children's books if you're an adult, but it is a children's book).
And on another site, my opinion that large tracts of Lord of the Rings were "boring and pointless" was called controversial (not in my world it's not!). Although the person who said it wasn't being mean, they were just surprised at my "outspokenness". But it's odd when me saying what is, to me, the bleeding obvious, gets called controversial!
Maybe I should just shut up in future?
Mind you, it explains the divorce rate if people only marry people they're not friends with!
Maybe it's because I'm gay, and lesbians have always "traditionally" been friends with their exes. It's a sort of in-joke, actually. But what is a friendship worth if it is so easily broken? Or are people so dysfunctional that if they get too close to their friends, it will destroy their friendship?
Of course, I didn't say all of this. I simply stated that it if two people were really close friends, and cared about each other a lot, then a romance would not destroy their friendship.
The woman who got mad at me allegedly had a friend and they decided some years ago not to date in case it would "destroy their friendship". She attributes the fact that they are still friends to this day on this decision. I suppose what might be making her mad is the implication that that was the wrong decision, or that her friend was being dishonest when he cited this as a reason not to date her (maybe he just didn't fancy her?).
Where the idiot bit comes in is not in this woman thinking you can only date people you're not good friends with (although that sounds rather sad to me), nor in her decision not to date this person who was allegedly her "best friend in the world", but in her utter inability to understand what I'm trying to explain. Which resulted in her venting her spleen at me and calling me names.
Apparently I'm arrogant. Well, I have Aspergers so that's sometimes the way it might come across, but actually I wasn't being arrogant at the time, I was being exasperated trying to explain my logic!
I did mention that of course, although I married one best friend, I haven't married all of them. That would be impractical! And since she never dated her "best friend" we can never test out my theory that good friends wouldn't hate each other after dating. I suspect the truth is that she was not half so happy as she made out about this arrangement. It would explain her fury.
I was already feeling fed up because on another site, I got into trouble for saying that Harry Potter was a children's book (not saying you can't read children's books if you're an adult, but it is a children's book).
And on another site, my opinion that large tracts of Lord of the Rings were "boring and pointless" was called controversial (not in my world it's not!). Although the person who said it wasn't being mean, they were just surprised at my "outspokenness". But it's odd when me saying what is, to me, the bleeding obvious, gets called controversial!
Maybe I should just shut up in future?
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Comments
Seriously, I agree with your premise absolutely. I have a good friend with whom I tried at one point to move things to another level. She didn't want to, and after we talked it through, we were both fine with it. And we remain good friends today (maybe better, in fact, since that bit of tension is no longer there).
Friendship runs the gamut though, and everybody's definitions and expectations are different. I think you're right about the divorce rate though. If more people were friends with their spouses, there'd be a lot less divorce.
Not saying you did that. Just trying to suggest possible expectations in play.
Maybe you could look at these situations as opportunities to practice the Buddhist principles. I'll bet that they'll help you find the middle path in such conversations.
Don't let it get you down. Do you really care what they think?
Take Care. You can talk to us.
My son has got himself into this exact problem. He was dating a woman who wanted to back out, they had a fight, resolved it, and then she said she just wanted to be friends. But he was finding it hard, because he was in love with her and it was just too challenging for him to be with her at a 'friends' level, when he was in love with her. A tough challenge when it is not equal. I gotta hand it to them - they are putting a lot of work in to their relationship, but they need some distance right now.
Anyhow - even though my story isn't exactly what you were talking about, I totally understand what you were trying to say.
thank you for so many useful insights, and support. I unsubscribed from a couple of groups that I wasn't doing well in (why stress myself?) but the experience is useful for reminding me that there is often a "hidden agenda" with emotional issues. Unless I'm conscious of the fact that we are discussing a sensitive issue, I don't always realise it. So I think we're having a very rational, philosophical discussion but the other person is talking about their own life!
Experiences like this are always an opportunity to learn about how people think, and excellent information for future interactions.
It's good that you see this as an opportunity for growth. It's probably best to stay away from volatile personalities. It will only cause you stress and distract you from more constructive uses of your mind.
I don't mind a bit of debate, but it should be respectful and people actually need to listen to one another. Some folks fight for the sake of being contrary or are "know it alls". We can learn a great deal from each other- good and bad.
This may be off topic, and I apologize, but I think that "reality TV" is encouraging bad behavior. I was flipping through the channels and reality shows seem to dominate the programming. I used to enjoy a couple of contest shows because I like to see people use their talent and creativity but they now seem to be geared more towards drama.
It seems to be lowering the levels of civility. No offense to reality TV fans.
>Maybe I should just shut up in future?
I love to refer myself to this:
The criteria for deciding what is worth saying
[1] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[2] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[3] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
[4] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[5] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[6] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."
— MN 58
Seeker provides good guidelines for "right speech". I know when you first read it, it sounds like you will no longer be able to say ANYTHING, but I find that more and more I filter what I am about to say.
Now, that doesn't mean that I don't occasionally drop an "f" bomb under my breath, directed maybe at bad drivers on the road, or when I'm frustrated with myself. I pay attention to if/when I get a niggling feeling. This feeling is often confused with excitement. Last time I had it I was posting something sarcastic on Facebook. I knew that my friend Tom would really like it, but then realized that other people could be offended, if they didn't understand my intent. So I deleted it.
I don't know what it is about most chat boards, but people seem quick to criticize others or to overreact. Maybe it's time to pull back from some of those boards, or be more selective. I'm sorry you've been having unpleasant and frustrating experiences, Ada_B.
Do people really watch reality TV? Something definitely is lowering levels of civility, but I'm not sure what all it is. If someone hasn't already written a book analyzing that, they should. And let's be good about maintaining the level of civility and kindness on this forum.
It goes without saying that posts and threads there are emotionally charged.... and I received a compliment from one seasoned contributor telling me that something I had posted had had an extraordinarily profound impact on her, and had given her an "Ahaah!" lightbulb moment which had served to completely change her attitude to a particular issue she had been struggling with for some time. And she was talking 'years'
I don't even remember what the comment was, or what her issue was either.
My point is, that we should remember the 'ripples in the pond' analogy.
What we say can have repercussions on a far wider scale than we might ever imagine, because we tend to forget (all too easily) that the comment we make to one particular poster about something they have particularly posted - can be seen by possibly hundreds of other people.
if in a forum left open to internet searches - who knows who will chance upon it, googling a random...Oooh....say..... "Buddhism, idiots, compassion"....??
I will endeavour in future not to label people as idiots, even when it's tempting.