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Enlightenment Insanity

Tristram30Tristram30
edited February 2011 in Philosophy
I came across this website the other day - Dr Tan does not appear to be a Buddhist, just a general spiritual "guru". The article is about Samatha meditation and I was quite shocked to read of the "super-normal feats" which he claims to be acheiveable in the 8th Jhana.

http://www.kktanhp.com/samatha.htm

Is this sort of stuff mentioned anywhere in Buddhist scriptures? I appreciate that Jhana meditation predates Buddhsim but it is nevertheless a fundamental part of Buddhism. I really hope not as this, from my perspective, adds a loony element to Buddhism and the practice of meditation.

I'd be interested to know what people think if this sort of thing - I'm not trying to flame, to be honest I'm really quite disappointed that this sort of stuff exists on the internet - it turns what I consider to be a healthy and practical exercise into something which belongs in the realm of comic books!

Has anybody on here experienced the 8th Jhana?

Does anybody know anything about Dr Tan?

Thanks
T

Comments

  • Tristram30Tristram30
    I should add that the 6th element of the 8th Jhana is what I consider to be enlightenment - those attainments seem reasonable and are not paranormal. 1-5 are just ridiculous!

    Thanks
  • Ada_BAda_B
    What shocked you? This is pure Buddhist mysticism. You don't have to believe it literally, like this (I don't) but I couldn't see anything on the site I'd call shocking.

    Have I missed something?
  • rainbowwarriorrainbowwarrior
    Sanity - Insanity - these are all relative terms.

    I had a quick glance at the page you posted and I think you should try and read up about the 6 Yogas of Naropa - and then ask your question again.
  • Tristram30Tristram30
    rainbowwarrier - yeah just had a quick look at the 6 yogas, pretty wild stuff!

    I just think it's odd that I've been reading Buddhist texts, and not just plain beginner stuff, on and off for quite a few years and I have never come across this sort of stuff.

    Ada-B you have not missed anything - I just thought that being able to disappear and walk on water are a totally different pursuit to ending sense desires and craving for existence - which is what I thought Buddhism was about.

    Well, you learn something new!
  • rainbowwarriorrainbowwarrior
    @Tristram30 - there are lots and lots of Buddhist texts - but there are only a few truths contained in them all. I think these truths should be the base for everyone's practice.
  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    "Has anybody on here experienced the 8th Jhana?"
    yes.

    have you read the Samañaphala Sutra?
  • ChogetsuChogetsu
    rainbowwarrier - yeah just had a quick look at the 6 yogas, pretty wild stuff!

    I just think it's odd that I've been reading Buddhist texts, and not just plain beginner stuff, on and off for quite a few years and I have never come across this sort of stuff.

    Ada-B you have not missed anything - I just thought that being able to disappear and walk on water are a totally different pursuit to ending sense desires and craving for existence - which is what I thought Buddhism was about.

    Well, you learn something new!
    This is Escoteric Buddhism, based on provisional Buddhism when the Buddha had "not yet revealed the truth" - Immeasurable Meanings Sutra.

    If you wish to follow the direct path to Enlightenment, embrace the Sutra in which Shakyamuni "fully discarded experiant means", the Lotus Sutra.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited February 2011
    I think that trying to figure out "jhana powers" will cause you to go insane.:)


    "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?

    "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

    "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]

    "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...

    "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

    "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."

    Notes
    1. I.e., the range of powers a Buddha develops as a result of becoming a Buddha.

    2. I.e., the range of powers that one may obtain while absorbed in jhana.

    AN 4.77
  • havamarhavamar
    Yes, insanity is the correct word.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    @Tristram30 - there are lots and lots of Buddhist texts - but there are only a few truths contained in them all. I think these truths should be the base for everyone's practice.
    Which ones would you recommend specifically?
    Which ones are your favorite?
    And which do you highly suggest?
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    The article is about Samatha meditation and I was quite shocked to read of the "super-normal feats" which he claims to be acheiveable in the 8th Jhana.

    Is this sort of stuff mentioned anywhere in Buddhist scriptures?
    Yes. However, they do not occur in the 8th jhana. Not much goes on in the 8th jhana.

    The page is simply information from suttas, such as follows:

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html

    :)

  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    The article is about Samatha meditation and I was quite shocked to read of the "super-normal feats" which he claims to be acheiveable in the 8th Jhana.

    Is this sort of stuff mentioned anywhere in Buddhist scriptures?
    Yes. However, they do not occur in the 8th jhana. Not much goes on in the 8th jhana.

    The page is simply information from suttas, such as follows:

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html

    :)

    Thank you!
  • rainbowwarriorrainbowwarrior
    @Tristram30 - there are lots and lots of Buddhist texts - but there are only a few truths contained in them all. I think these truths should be the base for everyone's practice.
    Which ones would you recommend specifically?
    Which ones are your favorite?
    And which do you highly suggest?
    I am studying a text called the Jewel Ornament of Liberation by Gampopa.

    The truths I am talking about are off course the four noble truths, which I use as the base for my meditation and I also dedicate my practice so that all sentient and non-sentient beings may benefit.

    There are a few books that I can recommend - books that are not complicated but will give you a good understanding of Buddhist philosophy. You can PM me if you're interested.

  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited February 2011
    I am studying a text called the Jewel Ornament of Liberation by Gampopa.
    This is an excellent book and one of the first comprehensive studies of the dharma that I read. I would highly recommend it.
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