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Can someone help? Lankavatara (long)
Talisman
Veteran
I'm having a difficult time understanding what is meant by "error" in this passage. (106-108)
"At that time Mahamati the Bodhisattva-Mahasattva again said this to the Blessed One:
Blessed One, where dost thou pronounce sound to be eternal?
The Blessed One replied: According to error, Mahamati; since even to the wise there is this
error, only that they are free from perversion. Mahamati, it is like the unwitted in the world
who conceive a perverted idea regarding a mirage, a firebrand wheel, a hair-net, the city of the
Gandharvas, Maya, a dream, a reflected image, and an Aksha-purusha, but with the knowing
it is not so, though it. does not mean that those illusions do not appear to them. When,
Mahamati, there is this error, diversities of forms are seen, though to this error the idea of
impermanence is inapplicable. Why? Because it cannot be characterised with the ideas of
being and non-being. Again, Mahamati, how are the ideas of being and non-being
inapplicable to this error? Because all the ignorant take in varieties of situations, like the
waves of the ocean and the waters of the Ganges which are not seen by the Pretas, but seen
[by others]. For this reason, Mahamati, the error-existence [or this world of illusion] is not,
but as this water is manifest to other people it is not a non-existence either. Thus to the wise,
the error is neither a perversion nor a non-perversion. And for this reason, Mahamati, the error
in itself is characterised with permanency, having the nature of non-distinction [as far as its
own appearance is concerned]. Mahamati, being discriminated as regards its diversified
individual signs, (107) the error is perceived as differentiated. Thus the error, [as far as its
own nature is concerned], is characterised with permanency. Again, Mahamati, how is the
error to be considered reality? Mahamati, for this reason that as regards this error the wise
cherish neither a perverted knowledge nor an unperverted knowledge. It is [such as it is and]
not otherwise. In case, Mahamati, the wise should cherish any thought whatever in this error,
it goes contrary to the reality attainable by noble wisdom. If there is anything at all here it is
the prattling of the ignorant, it is not the talk of the wise.
Again, when the error is discriminated according to a perverted and an unperverted view, it
gives rise to two classes of family, one of which is the family of the wise, and the other the
family of the ignorant and simple-minded. Now, Mahamati, the family of the wise is divisible
into three kinds, that is, the Sravakas, the Pratyekabuddhas, and the Buddhas. Mahamati, how
does the Sravakayana family rise from the discrimination whereby the ignorant conceive the
error? Mahamati, there is the rise of the ıSravakayana family where the attachment to the
notions of individuality and generality is kept up. This is the way, Mahamati, this error gives
rise to the Sravakayana family. Mahamati, how does the Pratyekabuddhayana family rise as
the error is discriminated? Mahamati, when in this error the attachment to the notions of
individuality and generality (108) leads one to a retirement from social life, there rises the
Pratyebuddhayana family. Mahamati, how is there the rise of the Buddhayana family when
this error is discriminated by the intelligent? Mahamati, when the world is understood to be
nothing but Mind itself, the existence and non-existence of external objects ceases to be
discriminated, and there is the rise of the Buddhayana family. Mahamati, this is the family,
that is, what is meant by the family.
Again, Mahamati, when the error is discriminated by the ignorant, there is the manifestation
of varieties of objects which calls forth the assertion [on their part] that this is so and not
otherwise; whence rises the family of the transmigration vehicle. For this reason, Mahamati,
the error is discriminated by the ignorant as characterised by multitudinousness, and this error
is neither a reality nor an unreality. Thus, Mahamati, this error being discriminated by the
wise turns into Tathata (suchness) with them, by virtue of a revulsion which takes place in
them concerning the Citta, Manas, Manovijnana, false reasoning, habit-energy, the [three]
Svabhavas, and the [five] Dharmas. Thus, Mahamati, there is this statement that Tathata is
Mind emancipated. Mahamati, the meaning of this statement is here thus clearly expressed by
me, that is, by the discarding of discrimination is meant the abandonment of all
discriminations. So much for this statement."
"At that time Mahamati the Bodhisattva-Mahasattva again said this to the Blessed One:
Blessed One, where dost thou pronounce sound to be eternal?
The Blessed One replied: According to error, Mahamati; since even to the wise there is this
error, only that they are free from perversion. Mahamati, it is like the unwitted in the world
who conceive a perverted idea regarding a mirage, a firebrand wheel, a hair-net, the city of the
Gandharvas, Maya, a dream, a reflected image, and an Aksha-purusha, but with the knowing
it is not so, though it. does not mean that those illusions do not appear to them. When,
Mahamati, there is this error, diversities of forms are seen, though to this error the idea of
impermanence is inapplicable. Why? Because it cannot be characterised with the ideas of
being and non-being. Again, Mahamati, how are the ideas of being and non-being
inapplicable to this error? Because all the ignorant take in varieties of situations, like the
waves of the ocean and the waters of the Ganges which are not seen by the Pretas, but seen
[by others]. For this reason, Mahamati, the error-existence [or this world of illusion] is not,
but as this water is manifest to other people it is not a non-existence either. Thus to the wise,
the error is neither a perversion nor a non-perversion. And for this reason, Mahamati, the error
in itself is characterised with permanency, having the nature of non-distinction [as far as its
own appearance is concerned]. Mahamati, being discriminated as regards its diversified
individual signs, (107) the error is perceived as differentiated. Thus the error, [as far as its
own nature is concerned], is characterised with permanency. Again, Mahamati, how is the
error to be considered reality? Mahamati, for this reason that as regards this error the wise
cherish neither a perverted knowledge nor an unperverted knowledge. It is [such as it is and]
not otherwise. In case, Mahamati, the wise should cherish any thought whatever in this error,
it goes contrary to the reality attainable by noble wisdom. If there is anything at all here it is
the prattling of the ignorant, it is not the talk of the wise.
Again, when the error is discriminated according to a perverted and an unperverted view, it
gives rise to two classes of family, one of which is the family of the wise, and the other the
family of the ignorant and simple-minded. Now, Mahamati, the family of the wise is divisible
into three kinds, that is, the Sravakas, the Pratyekabuddhas, and the Buddhas. Mahamati, how
does the Sravakayana family rise from the discrimination whereby the ignorant conceive the
error? Mahamati, there is the rise of the ıSravakayana family where the attachment to the
notions of individuality and generality is kept up. This is the way, Mahamati, this error gives
rise to the Sravakayana family. Mahamati, how does the Pratyekabuddhayana family rise as
the error is discriminated? Mahamati, when in this error the attachment to the notions of
individuality and generality (108) leads one to a retirement from social life, there rises the
Pratyebuddhayana family. Mahamati, how is there the rise of the Buddhayana family when
this error is discriminated by the intelligent? Mahamati, when the world is understood to be
nothing but Mind itself, the existence and non-existence of external objects ceases to be
discriminated, and there is the rise of the Buddhayana family. Mahamati, this is the family,
that is, what is meant by the family.
Again, Mahamati, when the error is discriminated by the ignorant, there is the manifestation
of varieties of objects which calls forth the assertion [on their part] that this is so and not
otherwise; whence rises the family of the transmigration vehicle. For this reason, Mahamati,
the error is discriminated by the ignorant as characterised by multitudinousness, and this error
is neither a reality nor an unreality. Thus, Mahamati, this error being discriminated by the
wise turns into Tathata (suchness) with them, by virtue of a revulsion which takes place in
them concerning the Citta, Manas, Manovijnana, false reasoning, habit-energy, the [three]
Svabhavas, and the [five] Dharmas. Thus, Mahamati, there is this statement that Tathata is
Mind emancipated. Mahamati, the meaning of this statement is here thus clearly expressed by
me, that is, by the discarding of discrimination is meant the abandonment of all
discriminations. So much for this statement."
0
Comments
Could it simply be a poor translation of the word being used? Anyone have a sanskrit version of the Lanka?
Studying the lesser Sutras is useful, but remember only in the Lotus did Shakyamuni reveal the truth.
"The World-Honored One has long expounded his doctrines and now must reveal the truth." - Lotus Sutra Ch 2
"Honestly discarding expedient means, I will preach only the unsurpassed way."
- ibid
"For long he remained silent regarding the essential, in no hurry to speak of it at once." - ibid Ch 5
"Among all the rivers, streams, and other bodies of water, for example, the ocean is foremost. And this Lotus Sutra is likewise, being the most profound and greatest of the sutras preached by the Thus Come Ones."
- ibid Ch 23
"I wouldn't get too caught up on it, it belongs to a period when "The Buddha had not yet revealed the truth" (Immeasurable Meanings Sutra).
Studying the lesser Sutras is useful, but remember only in the Lotus did Shakyamuni reveal the truth."
^^^opinion and kind of demeaning
Just like when someone asks where to get water, you don't talk about building a pipeline!
Would your teacher in school teach you about gerunds and other more advanced grammatical stuff when you are really trying to understand nouns and verbs?
The Lotus itself states in Ch 23:
"Among all the rivers, streams, and other bodies of water, for example, the ocean is foremost. And this Lotus Sutra is likewise, being the most profound and greatest of the sutras preached by the Thus Come Ones."
This is proof that the Lotus surpasses the Lankavatara.
Ch 13 states:
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world."
Ch 10 states:
"Among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach, this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand."
The Buddha did not reveal the truth until he spoke the Lotus Sutra, all other sutras are mere expediant means employed by Shakyamuni to prepare people for the One Vehicle of the Lotus Sutra.
- Lotus Sutra Ch 10
'Finger pointing at the moon' is a Zen fabrication, like their 'seperate transmission' that has no basis in the Sutras.
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us.
But we, reverently trusting in the Buddha,
will put on the armor of perseverance.
In order to preach this sutra
we will bear these difficult things."
- Lotus Sutre Ch 13
And thanks for staying on topic =P
Just ponder at the mirror below that provided the answer; discriminate and attach on the distance, size of vehicles, road, tree, lighting poll, road-sign etc. Then, in your free-will mind, look closely without discriminating and attach over those objects reflecting in the mirror, but just on that piece of mirror, flatly and sweetly in tune. Objects in the mirror are closer and lovely than they appear :rockon:
I still can't tell if he's a zealot or a troll.
I have no desire to disrupt your thread, if someone wishes to quote me, or question something I've said, they can do so at the thread I started.
Namu-myoho-renge-kyo
Cheers, WK