So a buddha walks into a bar...

Kyle

Hello Newbuddhist.com,

I'm new to the forums, and new to meditative/Buddhist practices in general. More than that, I'm new to the "real world" in the sense that I'm nearly fresh out of college and traveling four days a week for work. The major difference between society's reality, and a buddhist's reality, I've come to learn, is that the former is incredibly stressful. Or at least it was before I became serious about meditation and mindfulness practices. The stress and constant chest tightness were the catalysts.

I took up a little sittin' and watchin' the old noggin, and now I'm doing better than ever. While I haven't officially adopted Buddhism, I've taken up all the reading I can, and have been trying to live in-line with the precepts - with mixed results. My biggest hang-up is that my personality is very jocular, witty, and bantering. Not in a cold way either, as I never poke fun at anyone unless I have sufficient rapport with them, so they know not to take it to heart. I have a lot of fun with this, and I think people around me do to. Overall, I'm a pretty easy going, non-serious guy, who simply took life a bit too serious after graduation.

The problem Im having, if it is a problem, is that as I watch my mind and try to engage in right action and right speech, I just start clamming up, afraid to say anything offensive, gossipy, etc. - basically anything at all. In essence, I'm in my head as a result of trying to get out of my head. A goal in buddhism is to not take life to serious, but where does the middle way draw the line with humor?

How is it, then, that we can joke and have fun with people in the moment while trying to remain mindful and wholesome? Is it enough to just be aware that I'm having fun joking? I feel like some of it's an ego driven thing where I want to be liked and connect with others by joking around, but most of it is me just liking to make others laugh. Are any of you just too funny for your own good as well?

Nice to meet y'all,
Kyle

buddhajunkie

Focus on being mindful of your own intentions, and things will work out well in the long run. So you can make a good natured joke, and if someone gets offended then you can just apologize and move on. Most people can tell if you're being good natured.

Keep in mind, though, that intentions are sneaky things, and mindfulness training will begin to expose the way that we often mask our intentions from ourselves. But you'll learn this as you practice.

federica

Hello Kyle, and welcome to the forum. Nice to meet you....

Going along with what BJ, above says....

I think to be frank, that whatever you think/say/do, you could be mindful of the fact that Intention is All.

You'll hear an awful lot of talk about Karma/Kamma. (Karma is Sanskrit, Kamma is Pali.... forget the technicalities, plenty of time for that later!)

Kamma, translated as well as it can be into English, is basically Volitional Action. It's something carried out with a determined and preconceived intention of doing so. (Be it a thought, a word or a deed.)

Vipaka is the result or consequence of that action.

So, merely know that whatever you 'do', fully intending to do it, has a consequence.
It's really that simple.
It's an unfortunate fact of life, however, that even with our very best intentions at heart, something may backfire.
It happens.
I know what you mean about your jocular, easy-going and overall friendly manner.
I'm a bit of a wag in real life, myself. I have a very evident humour. I'm always cracking jokes with staff and clients, and using humour as an ice-breaker and "playing-field-leveller".

We have a long list of regular, repeat clients, who come back time and again, because they love the atmosphere of the place I run (Retail outlet-cum-delicatessen-cum-bistro). They know my humour, like it, and give back as good as they get. It's a decidedly friendly place to be.

However, maybe one time in 100 - I'll mis-judge it, and find (through body language and manner) that maybe *that* approach wasn't such a good idea, with a new customer....oops.
You do what you can to retrieve the situation, be more mellow, apologise good-naturedly for your attitude, explain you're a mad bunch here - Italians are like that....It works, virtually every time.

But sometimes, very rarely, someone has decided they're going to be offended, whatever you do.
Your placatory explanation cuts no ice, and they choose to remain miffed, offended, aloof and 'not coming back here again!'

It happens.
"You can please some of the people, all of the time," etc., etc., etc.....

Bottom line?
Just be aware of what your agenda/motivation is. What your intention is with the approach, and have a plan B under your belt.

Linc

I never poke fun at anyone unless I have sufficient rapport with them, so they know not to take it to heart. I have a lot of fun with this, and I think people around me do to.

Sounds like you were already being pretty mindful, then. Mindful doesn't mean over-analyzing.

Kyle

Keep in mind, though, that intentions are sneaky things, and mindfulness training will begin to expose the way that we often mask our intentions from ourselves.

I like this. It's definitely not too much to ask to realize my own intentions (although pobably harder to actually do). So I should watch my intent to see if I'm a)going to hurt someone or myself b)trying to boost my own ego by bringing someone/something else down c)is there a c?

If I find that I am guilty of a or b, I should try to stop my speech/action?

So, merely know that whatever you 'do', fully intending to do it, has a consequence.
It's really that simple.
It's an unfortunate fact of life, however, that even with our very best intentions at heart, something may backfire.
It happens.
I know what you mean about your jocular, easy-going and overall friendly manner.
I'm a bit of a wag in real life, myself. I have a very evident humour. I'm always cracking jokes with staff and clients, and using humour as an ice-breaker and "playing-field-leveller".

It's nice to know there are others out there like me. One question: If we can't know the actual downstream impacts of our actions for sure, how are we to determine the rightness of our intent?

federica

It doesn't matter.
Nobody can predict the future.
All we can do is address our thoughts, words and actions. we can neither predict nor pre-empt the responses of others. We can't think for them, and whichever way they decide to take something, is up to them.
all we can do is keep an eye on ourselves.

Cornishsunrise

As already mentioned you have to be careful with intentions. It's always best to run it through in your own mind and feel the effects. Developing genuine , selfless compassion for others will guide your actions. Setting good seed for the future.

Kyle

So, when I'm watching and feeling my intent, I should ask the following...?

Am I trying to boost my ego? (hurting myself in the long run)
Am I hurting someone else?
Anything else?

federica

As lincoln suggests, don't over-think it.

Your main question should merely be, "How conducive is this to my practice?"

compassionate_warrior

Why would being outgoing and jocular be somehow against some precepts or principles? If anything, I'd see it as a form of compassion--making people laugh and feel good is a noble pursuit. Just my opinion. Relax. Buddhism isn't a Puritanical path, eschewing any merriment, requiring only seriousness. Not sure where people get that idea; you're not the only beginner to have that impression. Life isn't to be endured, with gritted teeth. A good laugh is a gift.

buddhajunkie

So, when I'm watching and feeling my intent, I should ask the following...?

Am I trying to boost my ego? (hurting myself in the long run)
Am I hurting someone else?
Anything else?

Remember, it's about intention, so you should ask yourself, "Am I trying to hurt someone else? Just keep in mind that there are all sorts of ways we might try to subtly hurt someone, including criticism and inspiring envy.

I wouldn't worry so much about boosting one's ego. That is easily done without conversation.

Supertramp

Why would being outgoing and jocular be somehow against some precepts or principles? If anything, I'd see it as a form of compassion--making people laugh and feel good is a noble pursuit. Just my opinion. Relax. Buddhism isn't a Puritanical path, eschewing any merriment, requiring only seriousness. Not sure where people get that idea; you're not the only beginner to have that impression. Life isn't to be endured, with gritted teeth. A good laugh is a gift.

3. Right Speech

Right speech is the first principle of ethical conduct in the eightfold path. Ethical conduct is viewed as a guideline to moral discipline, which supports the other principles of the path. This aspect is not self-sufficient, however, essential, because mental purification can only be achieved through the cultivation of ethical conduct. The importance of speech in the context of Buddhist ethics is obvious: words can break or save lives, make enemies or friends, start war or create peace. Buddha explained right speech as follows: 1. to abstain from false speech, especially not to tell deliberate lies and not to speak deceitfully, 2. to abstain from slanderous speech and not to use words maliciously against others, 3. to abstain from harsh words that offend or hurt others, and 4. to abstain from idle chatter that lacks purpose or depth. Positively phrased, this means to tell the truth, to speak friendly, warm, and gently and to talk only when necessary.

There it says "4. to abstain from idle chatter that lacks purpose or depth.", I find this rather subjective. If you make people laugh it doesn't lack purpose, but it can lack depth. How do I know when it's right speech and when it's just idle chatter?
This is one of the most difficult principles of the eightfold path for me.

federica

"The Impossible we can do.
Miracles take us a little longer."
If you get this in one fell swoop, it would be a miracle.

Please, just relax.
If we could do all the eight, perfectly every time, we'd be fine, wouldn't we? We wouldn't need this forum at all.....
incidentally - why are you focussing so hard on this one?
let me point something out to you...The Eightfold path has no beginning, and no end. That is to say, while the factors are listed in a specific order (something I helped myself remember with the acronym "Right VISABEAM") there''s no 'number 1' or 'number 8'. They're all of primary importance, and actually meld to provide a mutually supporting "right Everything".
While you're focussing so intently on this factor - what's happening to the other 7?
Because they're not consecutive boxes you tick off.
They're factors to use as one big wheel. Together.
all at once.
So - what's such a big deal with this one?
Because if you look at your Right View (or Understanding) you're not getting something, are you?
You're straining so hard to pull this one into line, that maybe you've taken your eye off the other 7 balls.....

EDIT NOTE;

Hey bj, sorry,I thought you were the OP! My bad! (but in a way, my comments still stand..... )

dorje

For me, so long as I don't lie, and don't hurt anyone from the words I say, and don't slander or gossip, I think I'm fine at the moment. You need not take everything in at one time. You'll be overwhelmed. Baby steps, darling.

Cinorjer

So a Buddha walks into a bar, and asks, "Do you serve enlightenment here?"
The bartender hands him an empty cup.
The Buddha says, "I've already drank it!"
The bartender says, "Then I've already served it."
The Buddha smiles, turns and starts to leave.
The bartender shouts, "Hey, what about paying for the drink!"
The Buddha smiles again, and says, "I've already paid you."
The bartender says, "Well, that's all right, then."
Once the Buddha leaves, a customer turns to the bartender, and says, "That Buddha is one special dude, isn't he?"
The bartender shrugs his shoulder and starts wiping down the bar. "Yeah," he replies, "he's enlightened. But he's still a lousy tipper."

federica

Kyle

incidentally - why are you focussing so hard on this one?

Because humor is both important to me and a strength of mine. It's one thing if buddhism directs me from clinging to the things I once thought were important. It's another if it directs me from my strengths.

I'm a little stuck on this one, because I don't see how speech that isn't deep and profound is hurting myself or others. In fact, a little idle chatter is a good way to connect to a stranger, which can't be a bad thing.

"Yeah," he replies, "he's enlightened. But he's still a lousy tipper."

So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know?" And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

Lama and Bhudda both lousy tippers?