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An Apology To All Christians
ajani_mgo
Veteran
I need some help here, this thread is 100% highly offensive and 100% highly racist, sorry I have to say this, but if I do not pour it out, it's going to hinder my life.
First I apologize to all Christians for being a strong anti-Christian at a point of time in my history, even going as far as to the extent of attempting to unconvert some.
Second I apologize to all Christians for stereotyping all Christians, because of a minority of suckers, for being 100% hypocrites.
Third I apologize to all Christians for being highly offensive to the Old Testament and the New Testament at a point of time, and recognize the special value these books have in the true Christian's heart.
Fourth I apologize to all Christians for myself attacking the faith in the past, recognizing that it is truly hypocritical, uncivilized, undemocractic, and un-Buddhist to do so.
Fifth I seek the Christians' acceptance of my apology. I am trying very hard to correct this very digusting view of the religion I have. I am really sorry for behaving like a devil then. I now recognize that in every religion there are a bunch of idiots (in Buddhism they have me) - who try to wreck the good reputation of the religion built up by the noble founders and the true followers themselves.
I am sorry if my apology here has offended you, but I feel it as being an essential part of my track to being non anti-Christian. Anyone who wishes to do anything to me can do anything to me, for I know that attempting to unconvert someone from any religion is a cowardly and an indespicable act.
I therefore repent and seek the acceptance of the true Christians, and hope that I will find a true Christian in my neighbourhood to take as a role model- and change my view. Thank you.
First I apologize to all Christians for being a strong anti-Christian at a point of time in my history, even going as far as to the extent of attempting to unconvert some.
Second I apologize to all Christians for stereotyping all Christians, because of a minority of suckers, for being 100% hypocrites.
Third I apologize to all Christians for being highly offensive to the Old Testament and the New Testament at a point of time, and recognize the special value these books have in the true Christian's heart.
Fourth I apologize to all Christians for myself attacking the faith in the past, recognizing that it is truly hypocritical, uncivilized, undemocractic, and un-Buddhist to do so.
Fifth I seek the Christians' acceptance of my apology. I am trying very hard to correct this very digusting view of the religion I have. I am really sorry for behaving like a devil then. I now recognize that in every religion there are a bunch of idiots (in Buddhism they have me) - who try to wreck the good reputation of the religion built up by the noble founders and the true followers themselves.
I am sorry if my apology here has offended you, but I feel it as being an essential part of my track to being non anti-Christian. Anyone who wishes to do anything to me can do anything to me, for I know that attempting to unconvert someone from any religion is a cowardly and an indespicable act.
I therefore repent and seek the acceptance of the true Christians, and hope that I will find a true Christian in my neighbourhood to take as a role model- and change my view. Thank you.
0
Comments
-bf
To Ajani,
The fact you gave a sincere apology means that no one here will obviously blame you.So don't worry.
"May your faith remain unwaverng"
-Ar.Aid
Jesus gave his disciples an instruction which is sometimes called the Great Commission but that's another story. He told them to go and "make disciples" of all people. It is this instruction that has been at the core of much missionary effort. But why did he give the order? Why did he want other nations to learn about his message? Because, we are told, he loved all people and wanted everyone to hear the message of liberation that he had taught.
So, if those to whom the message is brought find it unacceptable, repellent or just plain unfriendly, the order is not being carried out properly and apologies are in order, both to the sender of the message and the hearers.
There is a sort of "ghetto mentality" among modern Christians which appears to take some sort of pride-filled comfort from the idea that they are so disliked by so many people, even in those areas which have long traditions of Christian faiths. One of the results is a refusal to change, to accomodate a changing culture within which the message can be shared. Another is a deep psychological need to deny that anything was ever wrong or done wrongly. The Church, the Body of Christ, is perceived as separate from the believers, immaculate where they are stained, perfect where they are fallible. Few myths are more at odds with modern thought which judges an institution by the behaviour of its members.
If one believes they have wronged another, spoke harshly or caused them pain, shouldn't they apologize and do it in-spite of, and without regard for, the transgressions of the other?
It seems to me that ajani_mgo has done a good thing here. I would hate to think that such a good example of kindness should be clouded by pointing fingers.
I don't mean to be pointing a finger here myself and I don't mean to be rude. I only ask wondering if there's a better path.
I believe that if there is a God, then he is stronger and more understanding then the average Christain gives him credit for.
I can not tolerate a belief system that can not tolerate other beliefs I can not tolerate the elitest attitudes of the average christain(the I am saved and you are doomed attitude). I f Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, it should be sufficiant to simply believe in God in whatever form, I have deep respect for islam and hindu belief systems. I have studied both.
Nobody has a monopoly on the Truth, for our human brains are too limited.
You won't find the average Christain on these boards. The ones you hate would not come here. But you need not apoligize for hating those..for I hate them too.:winkc:
Thank you for your post... guess you fit right in alongside most of us with our opinions too...
But hating accomplishes nothing. Replace it with compassion, and Hey!! You got it made!!
Nice to have you with us!!
Thanks for your welome
I agree. Hatrid is not the best wall of defense- definitately something I need to work on.
Oh yeah..Happy New Year.2006 :cheer:
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Simon
This quote is so on target in regard to most Christians I know.
In America the big question is-- Why do they hate us??(Islam) This is one of many great answers.
Of course, the best answer is to remove our military bases from their soil.
( Sorry I digress from the subject, but your words moved me)
How much of this is really a holy war? I think I felt more secure before It began to dawn upon me that this is what it really might be.
But I am really here just to ask questions, not comment. I am here to learn. So will refrain from anything else. I am here mostly to ask alot of questions about buddism, which I will have.
19 suicidal maniacs flew into and destroyed the biggest tower of pure capitalism changed everything.
SS67, the religious dimension of warfare has been with us for all of Christian (*) history. The Balkan wars following the disintegration of Yugoslavia reignited the three-way conflict between Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims. President Bush and others have spoken of crusade and the terrorists call to jihad, which are both religious terms.
Even the Cold War had its religious dimension. Look at much of the rhetoric and you will see that the Soviet Bloc is constantly described as "godless" or "atheistic". The West's opposition to the USSR had all the aspects of holy war.
(*) and, possibly, throughout human history.
Ajani has taken it upon himself to apologize for things he feels he's harbored against Christians. And ... that's fine. I don't think anyone was saying any thing to belittle him or take his statements out of context.
I think Simon was looking at it from the standpoint of:
* a young human being, who (at such a young age) realizes ideas or thoughts within him that do not follow the teachings of Buddha.
* because of these beliefs, he felt some need to inform the members of this sangha of his actions, his realizations and his growth as a human being towards all human beings.
* then Simon basically telling him there is no need to ask for forgivenessf rom a group of people (or religion) with a mindset that has murdered, ravaged, raped, pillaged, tortured and held the intellect of entire races of people (for centuries and centuries) in ignorance and slavery.
I don't believe Simon was making making fun of Ajani in the least.
-bf
Of late, I have often found myself wondering why Muslims have not apologized for their evil. I have wondered how they can subscribe to a belief system that calls for the death of people who think different than them (infidels). Their terrorist acts throughout the world, targeting and killing civilians at random and the pride with which they perpetrate these crimes against humanity is terrible. They call their religion "the religion of peace", but I see no peace being promoted by them today; I see only a violent push to make others live like they do. From the southern provinces of Thailand where they kill peaceful monks, to the US where they have killed thousands of innocent people, to Iraq where they kill thousands more of "their own" than "infidels"... it's very troubling.
My reaction to his post is more than likely because of the confusing emotions I feel about Muslims (mostly the religion, not the majority of its practitioners) and want to to find a better path to help end the ugliness of wars between faiths.
It's like in a state of exasperation and hopeless hope I look to the sky and say, "God help us, Buddha guide us, Allah be merciful, people give me positive suggestions... "can't we all just 'apologize' and be done with it?"
OK.
Move on.
and also I would like to throw this statement in here to--- NOT all who PROFESS to be Christians will BE SAVED...
Pree-cisely, Ajani!
If you felt that I was criticising or discounting your first post, A_M, I apologise for having expressed myself badly. That was diametrically opposite to my intention.
What you say, here, hits the bull's eye. It is what Jesus said ("You will recognise them by their fruits") and what his brother, James, wrote in his letter which is to be found in the 'canonical' books of the New Testament. Jesus is also pretty clear that not all those who call him "Lord" ain't necessarily right!
And this, in his Christian hosnesty, PoJ has also ppinted out.
I typically read the statements of other members of this sangha in the best light possible. I don't think that many people out here intentionally write things with the hopes of upsetting or hurting other members.
I guess I'm just thick that way.
-bf
[Caution: Abscure JT reference below]
If only wise men knew what that's like
Wha-a-at? When I was a boy, we still had cave-dwellers in Dieppe (Normandy) but I suspect that this remark is a piece of Western one-upman racism, Jason!
Looking back at original teachings of Christ rmany esemble the teachings of Buddha.
Both anti-Christians AND christians have a distorted view of the religion that Jesus Christ probably intended. I don't blame the religion...I blame my teachers.
After watching a programme yesterday evening (Via satellite) on British tv (channel 4) titled 'The Root of all Evil' I think the modern-day promoters of the major theistic religions have got an awful lot to answer for.....
The programme did much to dispel and contradict much of what is undoubtledly myth, in the Bible for example, but more frighteningly, it ably demonstrated the power of mass-hypnosis (if you'll excuse the pun) and how very dangerous and spine-chillingly close extremists are to coming to world domination....very very frightening....
And all in the name of God/Allah/ Yahweh.....
The thing that makes most sense to me (about Buddhism and Tao) is that no one can tell you the Way. We are not a herd of animals so to speak. I pray a certain prayer, attend Mass, give to the weekly collection, and I make to Heaven?
As I said before (perhaps in another thread), many teachings are same. Be compassionate, responsible for your actions...
The more and more I read however, Buddhism may be the Way for me....
...wait until I tell my mother! LOL
This is an insult to God. If I was God I wouldn't want anyone forced to worship me. Even if the person being forced is only eight.
There are two types of Christens. The first type is the conformist type. They were raised in the church they now attend. They don't question their beliefs. Their faith is a part of their (usually) privilged middle class upbringing. They have their cars and swimming pools and are saved too. How special are them!
The second type I see alot is the new Christain. These are more often from lower or working class families. Or they become poor later. But what they all have in common is they all "found Jesus" as adults. They are just as special, elite, and choosen of course.
I can't imagine what it is like to come to Christainity as a choice so I can't relate-I feel kind of happy for them.
I have alot of resentment. Ive been though alot of hell with Christains. They have a very strong need to feel elite and special and have a way of putting people down who are not exactly like them.
It is not enough to just believe Jesus rose from the dead you know - you've got to stop worshiping Mary, or not attending church twice a week, or whatever it is they are doing that you are not.
What a foul way to be brought up! Using "Christianity" as an excuse for sadism is an abomination. I am not surprised that you abho the whole boiling. I hope that, one day, you will meet some of the good people who hold different views of the Jesus message and who practise the real "Great Commission": "Love one another as I have loved you."
I just got 'the look' if I didn't attend Mass, and to this day still get 'the look'.
I choose to go out for a walk through nature (I live in a beautiful area along Niagara River). There I can (practice) meditate, appreciate my life and those of others be it people, the animals running around me, etc. To me, this is more 'holy' and spiritual than sitting in church.
I can only sympathize with the way you were raised and cannot relate to Christians as you do, though. The parish I was raised in is middle-class where the parishoners are not the extreme as you describe. Their attitude is not what had me question. It is mostly the doctrine THE CHURCH teaches. I did a lot of reading on the teachings of Jesus. At the same time I was reading Tao and Buddhism. There are some similarities, but Buddhism seems to have more of an effect on me. I find myself referring to it rather than the others.
I'd like to ask if anyone here ever tried walking up to a Christian you felt was a total disgrace to Christ and re-educate him in the true message of Christ?
__________________
Yes, but I do it very carefully and gently. So, it usually isn't in the form of walking up to someone and doing a "direct" re-educate. Too aggressive.
There are some issues that make for interesting discussion. Like the person's understanding of "God". Is it the Old Testament form -- the angry old white haired man in the sky? It is easy for an angry aggressive person to identify with this form. Then you have an inroad to encouraging thought, with the idea of God is Love, and Jesus coming to help us make further development in thinking about the nature of God. There is a great book written by the Linns -- Good Goats. In a very few pages they do a wonderful job of unwrapping how our understanding of God affects the way we see the world and the way we act in the world. I think you might like it Ajani.
Of course, it would depend on what the person is saying or doing. A response can be crafted, but I would stick with gentleness and quietness in my reply. A whisper is often heard most easily.
EM
I used to be a Jesus freak. When I was 16. Now I just love him.
I also had some bad ideas about Islam. So I'm in the midst of educating myself about it.
I have found some incredibly beautiful wisdoms in Islam. There are many ideas in it that are similar to the Eastern ideas regarding "self", "emptiness" etc. And, of course, since Jesus is considered to be a prophet in Islam, there is a lot of Christian ideas. It's an interesting education.
I decided long ago that no religion or system of thought or being has the monopoly on what is true. I believe there is truth and wisdom in all religions, all paths and all heartfelt wishes to understand the meanings of life. So, instead of choosing one way, I decided to investigate what I call "wisdoms'. These include scientists (ie; Einstein is particularly wonderful), artists, writers, atheists, Christianity, all the Eastern systems of thought, Islam, historians, philosophers, feminists, I could go on and on. There is beauty and wisdom wherever you look, if you're looking for it. There is also ignorance, arrogance, and ugliness if you're looking for it.
But my life is too precious and short to waste time looking for what is wrong and ugly. Or even acknowledging it when it hits me in the face. I want to learn, not have my heart broken over and over.
Having said that, I think our views of Christians is narrow and tainted by bad experience. As are our views of Islam. There is great beauty in both and we cannot fear either; the majority of the worlds population belongs to one or the other.
What drew me to Buddhism was the serenity and joyfulness I found in Buddhists. If I had been a devout Christian and was approached by a Buddhist trying to correct my spiritual beliefs I would have been, let's say, put off.
We don't have to worry about the way others conduct themselves. Yes, the world today seems to be polarizing between two groups of fundamentalists. But looked at logically, no extremes are sustainable. Therefore, don't worry. It is only because we cannot see far enough ahead to the eventual outcome of this stage of history that we fear. That's all.
Just love, regardless. Find a way, a reason, an excuse.
And in Buddhist fashion, perhaps we should thank those with whom we disagree for the opportunity they are giving us to practice our beliefs.
What do you think?
As a (somewhat questioning and confused) Christian, I guess I am in a position to say "apology accepted", though personally I cannot see why it is necessary. Please, do not take this to in any way belittle what you have said or done, because it appears that you have found something in yourself that has been bothering you and you wanted to make it right by apologizing to those you believe you have offended. I live in the deep south in the USA, and I can state from experience that your attitude is much more "Christian" than most who live here and claim the title.
I see that I have much to learn from you and from others here. Please help me.
-glyn
Nice to see you.
Feel welcome.
Brigid
Bonjour Audrey, et merci beaucoup pour votre Bienvenue. J'espère que je pourrai apprendre ici. (watching the dust settle after shaking it off my my 1 year of Highschool French from the mid 1980's -- yes, I'm that old.)
I must, however, respectfully disgree with your self-assessement. I sincerely doubt that you are the 'village idiot'. :-) From what I have seen on this forum you are far from it.
-glyn
Thank you for your warm welcome. You and Audrey have made me feel quite welcome here. I know that I have much to learn, and I feel now that I have found a place where I can learn.
I am here to learn what I have not been able to learn from over 20 years of being a christian.
There are two people who are very special in my life who are both Buddhists, and I am trying to learn more about Buddhism because of them. One is my dissertation advisor. He has been a wonderful mentor and guide not only in my academic pursuits but also in life, and because of his influence I want to learn more about this path that he follows. He is a teacher, a mentor, and a friend.
The other is a very special friend in Japan. She is, somehow, managing to support herself, her daughter, and her elderly parents all by herself. Her husband left her many years ago and she is struggling along, yet she always has a wonderful attitude, and she is one of the kindest, gentlest, and most generous people I have ever encountered in this world. She, also, is a Buddhist (Pure Land / Jodo Shinshu). She seems to have such a peace about her that I cannot find anywhere else. She is a safe haven for me. I can always turn to her when troubled and she will always somehow know exactly what to do to cheer me up and to help me. It is almost spooky. I was very blue one day recently and I had sent her an email about it. She emailed me a video of her students (she is a 5th grade teacher) playing recorders, with her playing the piano. It was _so_ cute and sweet. I still smile widely just thinking about it. It was exactly what I needed to get me out of that "funk", but I would have never even guessed that it would have helped.
Is that what "being mindful" means? Is that how she somehow always knows exactly what to do to help me?
I am sorry that this was long, and perhaps in the wrong topic, but I had to explain that. These two people have had such a profound influence on me and are doing wonderful things to help me maintain my sanity in a very difficult and painful situation. Without them I would have killed myself by now. In fact, my advisor stopped me last June.
After 20 years of Christianity I have found only fear, rejection, and abuse. Something inside of me is telling me that my life should not be a "no win scenario", and that it should be possible for me to live without fear and to be able to be happy.
I hope I have not offended any christians here, but I am tired of having to hide out of fear. At least in this place, as well as with Kumiko and my advisor, I can be myself.
I am sure you have not offended anyone... and thank you for your kind words....
I have to say this on-line sangha and Buddhist forum became my refuge and 'port in a storm'... I have made many friends here, and never tire of chatting, exchanging views or finding out new things.
I hope you enjoy being a member, and may we collectively bring you the friendship you have found so satisfyingly, elsewhere.
Good place to take refuge eh? See - I'm learning - look everyone, Baby's learning to walk, look, look ..... oops, there she goes down on her bum again!