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Drinking alcohol
While I go through my vices (see gambling thread) I have a question regarding drinking.
I'll start by saying that personally I don't like getting drunk, I never have. Anyhow, I used to have a drink most days after getting home from work. Nothing much, just a can of beer or a glass of wine to help me wind down.
Over the last year though I found I no longer had the desire to have a drink every day. I'm not sure why this change came about, maybe meditating had something to do with it. Either way, I was no longer drinking alcohol on a daily basis which can only be a good thing.
I do still enjoy a drink every now and then though. For instance last night I organised a meal out with 12 of my friends, some of whom hadn't seen each other for nearly 10 years. Pretty much everyone else was drinking so I thought it would be nice on this occassion to have a glass of red wine with my food.
Now then, back to the point. The 5th precept states that we should avoid intoxication, whether from drink, drugs or delusions of the mind. Is the occasional glass of wine really such a bad thing as a lay person? If you're not drinking to the point of intoxication is it still breaking the precept?
Adrian
I'll start by saying that personally I don't like getting drunk, I never have. Anyhow, I used to have a drink most days after getting home from work. Nothing much, just a can of beer or a glass of wine to help me wind down.
Over the last year though I found I no longer had the desire to have a drink every day. I'm not sure why this change came about, maybe meditating had something to do with it. Either way, I was no longer drinking alcohol on a daily basis which can only be a good thing.
I do still enjoy a drink every now and then though. For instance last night I organised a meal out with 12 of my friends, some of whom hadn't seen each other for nearly 10 years. Pretty much everyone else was drinking so I thought it would be nice on this occassion to have a glass of red wine with my food.
Now then, back to the point. The 5th precept states that we should avoid intoxication, whether from drink, drugs or delusions of the mind. Is the occasional glass of wine really such a bad thing as a lay person? If you're not drinking to the point of intoxication is it still breaking the precept?
Adrian
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Comments
The precepts were originally suggested by the Buddha for those wishing to become ordained, but given that the first five can apply to pretty much to everyone, many lay people adhere to them also.
It's the same old thing, Frizzer... who controls you? You do. From my humble, inexperienced and very 'amateur' point of view, "a little of what you fancy....."
You control you.... you know when enough is enough - in fact, you stop way before you ever get to the point where you'd say to yourself 'Whoa! that's a nice carpet...Bit close though!'
I think this precept would be important if you were experienceing a probable dependency or addiction.
If you know when to stop, and your enjoyment is occasional, and you never ever 'need' a drink, I believe you're ok....
Now pass the peanuts.....
Who fancies a pint ?!
The first five precepts are for everyone, layfollower and monastic alike.
The rewards of observing the precepts are discussed in the Abhisanda Sutta.
The consequences of failing to observe the precepts are discussed in the Vipaka Sutta.
For a more detailed teaching on the layperson's code of conduct advised by the Buddha, please read Everyman's Ethics.
This Dhamma talk also covers this subject, near the end.
I hope that this helps.
Jason
To put it simply though, we do what we can. One glass of wine for dinner is not going to lead one into heedlessness, and it is ok to do. The precepts weren't made simply to torture the Italians and the French by removing their dinner wine, however, anymore than that and it is going against the fifth precept. Once you start ot 'feel' the effects of the alcohol it is time to stop.
This is only taught for the benefit of all sentient beings, to help protect them from harm and making poor decisions. The longer you try your best to observe the precpets, and follow the Eightfold Path, the better you will do. Hiri (conscience) develops and acts a guardian, a quality that safeguards the world. What it really comes down to is, what does this precept mean to you?
I have heard that at one time the Blessed One was staying at Vesali, in the Peaked Roof Hall in the Great Forest.
Then Mahapajapati Gotami went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, stood to one side. As she was standing there she said to him: "It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would teach me the Dhamma in brief such that, having heard the Dhamma from the Blessed One, I might dwell alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute."
"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may definitely hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'
"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Mahapajapati Gotami delighted at his words.
The greatest gift is the gift of Dhamma.
Jason
One of the talks was by Gil Fronsdal and he gave this story regarding breaking the precepts :
"A monk was kidnapped and held hostage. His abductors told him that if he didn't break one of the precepts they would go and kill a lot of people.
The monk thought about this. He didn't want to break any precepts but if he didn't many people would die. So he got to thinking about which precpet to break. He didn't want to kill anyone, he didn't want to steal from anyone, he didn't want to commit sexual misconduct on anyone and he didn't want to lie to anybody. The monk thought a bit longer and decided to get drunk, after all, he wouldn't be hurting anyone but himself.
So off the monk went to the nearest bar and drank himself into a coma. On waking up the next day he discovered that while drunk he had broken all the other precepts!"
I don't know if it's supposed to be funny but it certainly made me laugh !!