Is there any gender discrimination in Buddhism?

blueberriesplease

I'm curious and ignorant on this one...

I always thought attaining progress on the enlightened path had nothing to do with gender, but after reading some things throughout the internet I've come to question the stability of this question. Do you feel there's more challenge on an enlightened path pertaining to either gender? Or do you feel there's no way to justify it by gender alone?

Instinctively I would say there's no discrimination, and it solely depends on the individual. I can't find any reason why one individual would be more challenged based on their gender.

Thank you,

-Blueberries

Jeffrey

gender is a taste in the mouth.. Enlightenment is another taste in our mouth. By spitting out identifications with gender and abiding in awareness of the present moment we can more clearly taste what remains.

Spock

Nice riddle Jeffrey!

Buddhists may discriminate against others, but when they do, they wander off the path to enlightenment.

powerful_one

hello brothers and sisters

discrimination is a worldwide issue. it in itself does not discriminate by religion, it is a human tendency brought about by lack of understanding for not to say ignorance

revkusala

Dear Blueberries, I would agree with our friends wholeheartedly. The short answer is "no" (to gender bias) we should avoid holding a concept of self next to this. Check out:
"soma sutta" www.accesstoinsight.org/sn/sn05/sn05.002.than.html

Cloud

@blueberriesplease, Gender discrimination isn't something that's intrinsically a part of either reality or the truths and process of enlightenment. None of the actual teachings (such as the Four Noble Truths, Not-Self, Impermanence, Dukkha and Karma) have even a single inclusion of gender-issues. The teachings are of Mind and Form, where the functions of Mind in regards to suffering and its cessation do not differ, and variations in Form do not have any weight.

It is only in monastic code of some traditions, called the Vinaya, that discrimination has a foothold -- born initially of cultural concerns that were worldly matters, no longer relevant and never in fact "real" in terms of Dharma. Traditions and their preceptors (upholders) can be short-sighted and self-serving, either out of clinging or aversion, and use technicalities in monastic code to control bhikkhunis (female monks/nuns) or prevent female practitioners from ordaining.

This is not how most practitioners of said traditions feel it should be, IMHO, but tradition clings much as "self", and it is an uphill battle for some ways to be amended with wisdom and compassion.

(And of course unenlightened lay followers and monastics have yet ignorance that may cause aversion toward the opposite sex in both worldly matters and matters of Dharma. This goes for both male and female. That's just run-of-the-mill sexism that occurs regardless of religion.)

I hope this helps.

Namaste

SherabDorje

That's very well put, Cloud.

Cloud

It's too frickin' technical, is what that is, but thanks.

compassionate_warrior

When women dharma students have to avoid teachings or constantly be on their guard due to teachers who behave inappropriately towards them, as I have witnessed, that is discrimination. It means women can't participate in teachings on an equal footing to men.

ShiftPlusOne

I'd say Buddhism isn't immune to ignorance, but it has a relatively good track record when it comes to equality.

However, Buddhism is a very personal practice. What people thought a while ago shouldn't interfere with your practice in any way.

formermonkJohn

I see a more devout women at the cambodian temple than men, i've often thought as meditation as a tool that develops more communication between the two hemispheres of the brain, in much the same way a women is naturally, perhaps that is why there are much more monks than nuns, because men need more training, i generally think of women as more spiritual or open to spirituality than men.

Dakini

Violence against women or students coerced into sex by their teachers is certainly discrimination. When students are targeted because of their gender as potential sex objects by teachers, that's discrimination.

Ada_B

@Dakini, you might be interested to read about Tara, in Tibetan practice. She's the female-force and IMHO the original feminist!

caz

@Dakini, you might be interested to read about Tara, in Tibetan practice. She's the female-force and IMHO the original feminist!

Arya Tara isnt just for Feminists
She's as a kind spiritual mother for all whom rely upon her

DhammaDhatu

We can read the Therigatha, which are the verses of the fully enlightened nuns

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thig/index.html

So freed! So thoroughly freed am I! —
from three crooked things set free:
from mortar, pestle,
& crooked old husband.
Having uprooted the craving
that leads to becoming,
I'm set free from aging & death.

Four times, five, I ran amok from my dwelling,
having gained no peace of awareness,
my thoughts out of control.
So I went to a trustworthy nun.
She taught me the Dhamma:
aggregates, sense spheres & elements.
Hearing the Dhamma,
I did as she said.
For seven days I sat in one spot,
absorbed in rapture & bliss.
On the eighth, I stretched out my legs,
having burst the mass
of darkness.

:bowdown:

Dazzle

I like this sutta: Soma Sutta: SN 5.2

"Setting at Savatthi. Then, in the morning, the bhikkhuni Soma dressed and, taking bowl and robe, entered Savatthi for alms. When she had walked for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Blind Men's Grove for the day's abiding. Having plunged into the Blind Men's Grove, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

Then Mara the Evil One, desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in the bhikkhuni Soma, desiring to make her fall away from concentration, approached her and addressed her in verse:

'That state so hard to achieve
Which is to be attained by the seers,
Can't be attained by a woman
With her two-fingered wisdom.'

Then it occurred to the bhikkhuni Soma: "Now who is this that recited the verse — a human being or a non-human being?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited the verse desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in me, desiring to make me fall away from concentration."

Then the bhikkhuni Soma, having understood, "This is Mara the Evil One," replied to him in verses:

'What does womanhood matter at all
When the mind is concentrated well,
When knowledge flows on steadily
As one sees correctly into Dhamma.

One to whom it might occur,
'I'm a woman' or 'I'm a man'
Or 'I'm anything at all' —
Is fit for Mara to address.'

Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Soma knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.bodh.html

formermonkJohn

priceless.(this is not an ad for American Express card)

Cinorjer

I'm curious and ignorant on this one...

I always thought attaining progress on the enlightened path had nothing to do with gender, but after reading some things throughout the internet I've come to question the stability of this question. Do you feel there's more challenge on an enlightened path pertaining to either gender? Or do you feel there's no way to justify it by gender alone?

Instinctively I would say there's no discrimination, and it solely depends on the individual. I can't find any reason why one individual would be more challenged based on their gender.

Thank you,

-Blueberries

As long as men are unable to have babies and sex remains a driving motivation in people's lives, the relationship between men and women will be complicated. Religions don't exist in a vacuum. The people who practice Buddhism have the same assumptions about gender roles as most people will, in their given culture. As long as we remain human, some people will justify abusing their positions of authority to satisfy their sexual fantasies. Buddhism flowered in the East, where there are to this day heavily male dominate societies. So in that manner, yes there can be gender discrimination in Buddhism the same as there is in the surrounding cultures.

But the posters are correct in that there is nothing intrinsic to Buddhism that says women are different from men, when it comes to the 8-fold path. There are a few ancient rule lists for monks that show a definite bias against nuns, but the sutras are full of examples of women who, if anything, like to show up their male counterparts. I think the reason the sutras remained fairly uncontaminated by the male ego and we included the contribution of women in our dharma, is because Buddhism never said sex was a sin. The men writing the sutras had no need to blame women for their lustful urges or divide womenhood into either virgin or harlot, like some religions tried to do.

Dazzle

I just noticed that the sutta I quoted was already mentioned (but not quoted) by revkusala earlier - but my 30 mins editing time was over so I couldn't mention that at the end of the previous post.

Talisman

I read in a Time Magazine special that overviewed modern insight and understanding of the working of the human brain. They have a section that discusses the physical differences between the male and female brain. Specifically it states that the typical male brain is larger than the female brain and contains a higher ratio of gray matter. Men's brains are hard-wired in a way that allows them to mentally visualize 3D objects and environments better than women and focus harder on single objects of thought. Women on the other hand have a higher ratio of white matter and are able to create many more simaltaneaus neural pathways as apposed to men, allowing women to concentrate on multiple tasks and concepts at once.

This could obviously have many conotations relating to the social, mental, and emotional differences between men and women, and seems to give both genders unique tools for acheiving enlightenment.