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There is no human and no animal that has ever lived that has not known suffering. The Buddha taught that everyone who has ever lived goes through the suffering of birth, old age, sickness, and death. Suffering is, however, not something to be avoided but rather a teaching. It teaches us that there is no refuge in samsara, in our ordinary way of looking at life in which we are attached to our delusional dualistic idea of "self" and "other". It is suffering that impels us to look for an end to suffering, a permanent end, and this is the path that the Buddha taught. Without suffering, there would be no path. Gods in the god realm do not practice Buddhism because they do not know suffering as a god. Humans are most fortunate because we both know suffering and have the capacity to do something about it.
Palzang
Thanks Palzy. This comment suggests that the OP question might well have been, "Is there anyone out there who has not suffered in life?" Tricky business, this samsara - impelled to end suffering yet attached to suffering without which the lesson might not be had - ever striving to dissolve the attachment to self...suffering...duality...doubt. Perhaps this might be a topic for a different thread but in light of seeking a permanent end to suffering - how might a Bodhisattva regard this since the aim is to return (take rebirth) and forego enlightenment until all sentient beings attain enlightenment? Seems like the ultimate in doing something about samsara!
Dear Iron Rabbit, Talking about Bodhisattva, I wonder if the Bodhisattva experience suffering.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
yes, they do experience suffering. Whether they attach any particular emotion to experiencing that suffering, is another matter. The Buddha experienced suffering. But he transcended it.....
footiam, no they are ordinary messages that come from paying attention rather than caught up in the solidity of thoughts as real. For example sun coming in your window you see the sun rather than thinking 'good thing its sunny, I wonder if it will be like that tomorrow'.. With those distracting thoughts you are distracted from the sun and noticing anything in particular. You can have insights into patterns of your mind. Tendancies and so forth. Sunlight is a sense example.
With so many foreign terms, learning Buddhism is becoming a form of suffering itself!
It is like learning another language...literally, if you want to learn Pali and read the Suttas for yourself.
And the faith that you talk of that give rise to energy – it could be negative energy for all we know.
If the energy gives rise to unwholesome mental states (greed, hatred and delusion) then it would be "negative energy". If the energy gives to wholesome mental states (e.g. selflessness, metta and wisdom) then it would be "wholesome energy".
Since the Buddha embodied selflessness, metta and wisdom; since the Dhamma he taught contains these themes; and since the Sangha all developed these qualities: I do not see how faith in the triple gem could give rise to negative energy.
Just as a child might have a bad role model then he can be expected to develop those same bad behaviours. If a child has a positive role model then he can be expected to develop in a wholesome way.
Dear GuyC , Thanks for the explanation. Once I had a friend who did a degree course in Buddhism during his spare time. Another friend wondered why he did that - it's not that the degree is like an MBA and will increase his marketability. As it is, do you suppose Pali is not only a dead language and has no commercial value? And we do always need a good role model. Thanks for being one!
As it is, do you suppose Pali is not only a dead language and has no commercial value?
Pali is a dead language, outside of Buddhist scriptures. Unless you are going to be a Pali professor (and I don't know how much funding or demand they have) then it is probably not going to be of any commercial value.
But if you are learning Pali with the intention of gaining a more accurate understanding of the Buddha's Teachings, then it has "spiritual value".
And we do always need a good role model. Thanks for being one!
I don't know if I qualify as a role model, I just try to explain my understanding of Buddhism, but it is nice of you to say that.
Life isn't suffering, incomprehension of life's causes and conditions as empty is suffering.. but why yes... I've suffered a heck of a fuckin' lot!! Stupid, ignorant me.. ah well... may we all learn... yes? Buddha is possible, obvious by those that have studied this paradigm.
I've suffered, but I've grown a lot too. In fact, the notion that even the issue suffering can be given a positive spin, has helped me immensely. I've reframed suffering as my emotions telling me something needs to be changed. And I've learnt to be a better interpreter of said message.
I've suffered, but I've grown a lot too. In fact, the notion that even the issue suffering can be given a positive spin, has helped me immensely. I've reframed suffering as my emotions telling me something needs to be changed. And I've learnt to be a better interpreter of said message.
Sounds like a wise attitude to me. On the one hand it is easy (unless you are mindful) to ignore suffering. On the other hand it is easy to complain about suffering. But to face suffering and call it your teacher is not easy but definitely wise.
Dear GuyC, Maybe meditating in a cave will find you an angel with a Godly message! And maybe, spiritual value is just as valuable, if not more. What do you think?
Dear Vajraheart, Not understanding is suffering. Right!
Dear Epicurus, That’s a good approach. Will keep that in mind!
I've suffered, but I've grown a lot too. In fact, the notion that even the issue suffering can be given a positive spin, has helped me immensely. I've reframed suffering as my emotions telling me something needs to be changed. And I've learnt to be a better interpreter of said message.
Sounds like a wise attitude to me. On the one hand it is easy (unless you are mindful) to ignore suffering. On the other hand it is easy to complain about suffering. But to face suffering and call it your teacher is not easy but definitely wise.
Metta,
Guy
The problem is when you feel healed of the most distracting forms of suffering and are left with questions of what to do with life afterwards. I think overcoming suffering sometimes has a way of making one jaded as to the value of a lot of things in life. Superficial things. That would be great, if one wasn't surrounded by "fools".
Yes, of course. What I meant was that the most agonizing forms of suffering...when overcome might teach you lessons that do in fact make you wiser... but they put everything in perspective and at least in my case makes me question if a mundane lifestyle will ever satisfy me. Some things you thought you valued are seen from a different angle, and lose their significance as you loosen your "attachment" grip. A lot of the stuff that used to excited me, just doesn't anymore.
But not a lot as taken it's place. I feel more spiritual in a sense, but lacking passion for most stuff. Like having a romantic relationship, getting a job, etc
We ought not to become jaded then. The question now is how?
Good question.
Cultivate Metta would be my reflex-response, but it might be different for everyone. One of the challenging things about purifying the mind is that there is not one magic bullet that will "fix" the mind once and for all. It takes feeling and sensitivity to the way your mind works to know in a particular moment what it is that you need in that moment.
Sometimes we actually have to do something, change our behaviour, watch what we say, guard our senses. Other times we should cultivate a particular mental state, such as Metta. And yet other times the best thing to do is to do nothing and just observe.
Experiment with different methods and see what works for a particular defilement at a particular time. I am no expert at this, my defilements keep coming every day in various forms, so please do not take my advice as necessarily true, this is just one unenlightened person's opinion.
Comments
I wonder if meditation is the only way.
Dear porpoise,
Maybe Dhamma Dhatu meant that birth, ageing and death would not be a problem if we are not attached to them.
Dear Supertramp,
I take that you meant birth, ageing and death when you mention “current state” in life.
Dear Cloud,
I am glad that is written in the past tense.
Talking about Bodhisattva, I wonder if the Bodhisattva experience suffering.
The Buddha experienced suffering.
But he transcended it.....
It is tough being a Bodhisatva or a Buddha, isn’t it? No wonder, they say it’s tough at the top!
Dear Jeffrey,
I would think that people prefer extraordinary messages direct from God!
Since the Buddha embodied selflessness, metta and wisdom; since the Dhamma he taught contains these themes; and since the Sangha all developed these qualities: I do not see how faith in the triple gem could give rise to negative energy.
Just as a child might have a bad role model then he can be expected to develop those same bad behaviours. If a child has a positive role model then he can be expected to develop in a wholesome way.
Metta,
Guy
Thanks for the explanation. Once I had a friend who did a degree course in Buddhism during his spare time. Another friend wondered why he did that - it's not that the degree is like an MBA and will increase his marketability. As it is, do you suppose Pali is not only a dead language and has no commercial value?
And we do always need a good role model. Thanks for being one!
But if you are learning Pali with the intention of gaining a more accurate understanding of the Buddha's Teachings, then it has "spiritual value". I don't know if I qualify as a role model, I just try to explain my understanding of Buddhism, but it is nice of you to say that.
Metta,
Guy
Metta,
Guy
Maybe meditating in a cave will find you an angel with a Godly message!
And maybe, spiritual value is just as valuable, if not more. What do you think?
Dear Vajraheart,
Not understanding is suffering. Right!
Dear Epicurus,
That’s a good approach. Will keep that in mind!
Metta,
Guy
But not a lot as taken it's place. I feel more spiritual in a sense, but lacking passion for most stuff. Like having a romantic relationship, getting a job, etc
We ought not to become jaded then. The question now is how?
Dear Epicurus,
We would be fools to be influenced by fools around us.
Cultivate Metta would be my reflex-response, but it might be different for everyone. One of the challenging things about purifying the mind is that there is not one magic bullet that will "fix" the mind once and for all. It takes feeling and sensitivity to the way your mind works to know in a particular moment what it is that you need in that moment.
Sometimes we actually have to do something, change our behaviour, watch what we say, guard our senses. Other times we should cultivate a particular mental state, such as Metta. And yet other times the best thing to do is to do nothing and just observe.
Experiment with different methods and see what works for a particular defilement at a particular time. I am no expert at this, my defilements keep coming every day in various forms, so please do not take my advice as necessarily true, this is just one unenlightened person's opinion.
Metta,
Guy
Good idea! I like to do nothing. That sounds so relaxing!