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Buddhism on hitting one's own children?

DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
edited February 2011 in Philosophy
Buddhism on hitting one's own children?

Comments

  • forget the isms. what do you think? lets discuss.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    forget the isms. what do you think? lets discuss.
    For me, it's definitely not right and cannot imagine of doing so.
    That would also go for animals as well.
    You?
  • This reminds me of a book I read "Buddha never raised kids and Jesus never drive carpool."
  • Buddhism is the most non-violent religion I've ever come across. What do you think? :)
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    Well, it seems that a buddhist position is that people learn how to do bad things. So perhaps it would be teaching a child that something bad is necessary and well you can see where I'm going with this I guess.

    I took a pychology class this year, we did an opinion poll. The question was roughly "is it necessary to spank your children in order to raise them properly?"

    ALOT of students chose agree. I think over half the class. I was suprised.

    So it's a good topic.
  • Its not right by me either. Children don't benefit even from angry words I would imagine, though its not a perfect world.
  • WhoknowsWhoknows Australia Veteran
    I still smack my kids if necessary, I think some degree of discipline useful for their benefit. I don't do it for my own benefit and I don't do it from anger. In fact I find that it is almost never needed. Violence is more about intention than action, although I do realise that this looks like an excuse but is yet consistent with Buddhist doctrine. To be honest, I think people can be a bit soft in this respect, but sometimes I think I have come from another era. I think though, that there are people who believe smacking can be beneficial and those that think it is only harmful, I am not sure any one group has the power to dictate to the other. The legal side seems to side with abstinence due to situations of obvious physical abuse yet I wonder about these cases to ban smacking as they appear to be an extremist response. We are talking about conventional norms here and the balance of the need for discipline and the avoidance of pain, there obviously is no ultimately correct answer here, so we should all steer clear of extremist positions and yet promote harmonious behaviours.

    Here are the two polar (extremist) situations that I can think of in relation to this:
    1) A child grows up to becomes a criminal, or leads a miserable life due to poor self discipline from parents.
    2) A child grows up to be excessively violent due to excessive violence from parents.



    Cheers, WK

  • Studies show that children who are hit are more likely to bully other children. Causality is in doubt however.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Studies show that children who are hit are more likely to bully other children. Causality is in doubt however.
    Interesting.
  • I'd say within reason, it's necessary.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I'd say you're wrong. For any reason.
  • I can understand that. The different attitudes people have on this issue may reflect their own upbringing. Personally, I was beaten and I don't really blame my parents for it... I can't think of any negative effects. I can also see the value of explaining what's right and wrong and make sure kids understand why yelling in the supermarket is inappropriate. So yeah... not 100% one way or the other on this one.
  • WhoknowsWhoknows Australia Veteran
    Hi ShiftPlusOne,

    Beaten sounds very extreme! In my remembrance as a child, I cannot even remember one situation where I actually was smacked (definitely not beaten) and it was more the threat that kept me in line. Sort of like the threat of jail keeps a certain amount of people from breaking the law. In my view stated above, however, I would definitely not accept beating as acceptable.
  • From my own experience I can say, that no violence ever helped me in any way. But in fact the opposite. It only made me feel worse and despising of my parents - I never learned anything valuable from it. I find it a very unwise way of dealing with 'problems'.
    A kid needs love, care and understanding.
    Of course I can see the difference between very rare beating and caring behavior vs no care and frequent beating.
    I guess my childhood belongs more to the 2nd category and that's what my opinion is based on.
  • Whoknows, bad choice of words on my behalf. 'smacked' sounds about right.
  • WhoknowsWhoknows Australia Veteran
    @ShiftPlusOne, phew, but you were probably just using common terminology. You know that this may have completely different connotations depending on where in the world, both country and local area, one lives.

    @Being: I completely agree with you: love, care and understanding should be forefront.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2011
    I will admit I smacked my two girls when they were younger.
    but I can count the times I smacked both of them, collectively, on one hand.
    And I always apologised for it, afterwards.

    My reasoning behind the smack, may have been sound. My smacking them was completely wrong.

    My personal opinion is that if you hit someone whether in public or in private, to communicate your anger, and exert control over them, you have actually lost control of your temper.

    If you were to strike an adult in the same way, you could be had up for assault.
    But a minor (who is in our charge, under our protection, and our responsibility) has no such legal privilege.

    And we smack a child out of temper, and it frightens some children.
    My personal view is that it's never OK to impart a lesson by making a child go through pain or fear.

    @ShiftPlusOne, I neither blame you, nor your parents for the opinion you/they have, and I'm not accusing anyone or holding anyone in any lesser regard for what they do. people do what they do at the time, for the reasons they do them. Period.
    The above is simply my opinion, but one I personally feel strongly about.
    As a person who was subjected to some bullying as a child, I have grown to deplore any form of violence towards someone who is obviously weaker and defenceless.

    That's it, really. :)
  • WhoknowsWhoknows Australia Veteran
    @federica: Thanks for your well reasoned opinion, maybe its enough to change my view, I'll have to wait and find out when it counts. Some things change quickly with practise, some take a little longer. We're all interconnected and co-dependent, and maybe one of the greatness of this forums is the chance to change things for the better. This view of mine was starting to feel stale and out of place anyway and I'm not a big believer in coincidence. So I think I'll start with the aspiration to make a change in this area, in fact now I've decided I will.

    Thanks,
    WK
  • "Do no harm" comes to mind in this discussion. Like fede's, my little ones got a smack on the rear through clothes or diapers. Those instances could be counted as well as meted out on one "open" hand throughout their upbringing. This was contrary to my own rearing. Slapped, punched and beaten with sundry objects such as belts, hangers, sticks or hoses - my childhood was somewhat inquisition-like. As if the beatings were not harmful enough - they were accompanied by a perceptible rage that was beyond comprehension to a child's mind. While I could have easily become a criminal - I was moved to end the cycle of violence with my children. Sadly, I continued the violence against myself through self abusive and addictive acting out - but in the end it brought me to dharma practice. As one who experienced the dilemma of reconciling being abused by those who one ostensibly loves and relies upon - I can easily understand those who feel a smack to the bottom is justified - if it can be done compassionately.
  • The only time I can imagine hitting a child is if I found one attacking a defenseless animal of some sort. And the only reason I would hit them would be to demonstrate to them that they were doing exactly that thing to the animal. That's the only time it seems right.
  • So you would use cruelty to demonstrate cruelty to a child who was acting cruel? Really doesn't make sense to me. I never hit my kids, mainly because I would only have done it out of anger and then I would have felt guilty. Pretty selfish I guess. I cannot imagine hitting my own child in cold blood out of compassion.
  • If I may I would like to venture an opinion based on personal observation of both my own and my brother's upbringing as I do not have children at this point in time.

    My brother and I were polar opposites to some degree. With me,all it took from my parents was the threat of violence(physical discipline if you prefer), and I would typically fall into line of what responsible behavior was. My brother however too often ignored outright any words spoken to him(heated or otherwise) when he misbehaved. As such, he was frequently disciplined with a brief paddling on the rump.

    Now before anyone goes and says that my family was short tempered, let me assure you, my father was shorter tempered than my mother and it was my mother who too frequently ended up disciplining him(my brother).

    So my point is should we not rephrase the question? That is "What is buddhism's perspective on physical discipline of a child in an attempt to encourage responsible behavior?"

    To which my answer would be, this is samsara. This life is suffering. A parent suffers when their child misbehaves, and a child suffers when a parent must exact discipline to keep the child safe.

    where physical discipline is concerned, I think it is foolhardy to believe a child will always listen to spoken words as a form of discipline. In the case of my brother, he was frequently told not to run out in traffic, and yet did it anyway. It was only after he had been paddled a few times as consequence that he realized it was a bad idea. Now is that sort of violence acceptable or unacceptable?
  • Ya know what? Slapping a person gets them to calm down, focus, get their head together.

    Gotta be true. I saw it on "Mythbusters."

    Sooooo, I'm gonna reserve my right to use the slap technique if ever in my life it becomes the necessary best method to get someone to get themselves together!

    :D

  • Didn't we just have a thread on this? There were plenty of suggestions for how to deal with errant behavior without violence.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    I say hit the little rats if they get out of line ;)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    What are you, the Pied Piper?
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    What are you, the Pied Piper?
    :D
  • Imo, discipline with children is essential I.e actions have consequences.
    Fair, consistent non angry behaviour is the path I attempt to follow and violence is not part of that.
    I believe that love and compassion always wins.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2011
    So much depends on the quality of the bond set up between parents and child in the first 6 years. If there's a really good and trusting bond, there shouldn't be any behavioral problems, for the most part. It's natural for kids to do what they're told, if their parents are genuinely loving, and have been there for their kids from day one. People from other parts of the world don't understand when they hear that American kids don't mind their parents. I think parenting skills are sorely lacking in our culture. Too many strangely narcissistic parents who don't attend to their infants and toddlers, too.
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