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How does Buddhism look upon Marijuana and Alcohol. How about other drugs?
Listen. This is a family-friendly site for the most part. Kids read this stuff. I don't want "yay drugs!" comments all over the place. Responsible discussion of marijuana use I'll let slide... to a point (and the mods are free to clamp down as they see fit). Saying that tripping balls on X, Y, and Z is the key to meditation I'm not cool with.
It's not a freedom of speech issue. Go into a family restaurant and start loudly suggesting to everyone they try meth. Hey guess what? They'll kick you out. Same here.
@FreeofwantWdumean OK, but let's take a deep breath before replying from now on, alright? Assume the moderators have positive goals, not God-complexes.
Listen. This is a family-friendly site for the most part. Kids read this stuff. I don't want "yay drugs!" comments all over the place. Responsible discussion of marijuana use I'll let slide... to a point (and the mods are free to clamp down as they see fit). Saying that tripping balls on X, Y, and Z is the key to meditation I'm not cool with.
It's not a freedom of speech issue. Go into a family restaurant and start loudly suggesting to everyone they try meth. Hey guess what? They'll kick you out. Same here.
Jeff guy, This I am totally cool with. Fed she just.. the way she deals with her moderator status of powers was so annoying, can you give her a talking to? If she had said anything 25% as nicely as you have done I would have not been so disappointed in this site.
I'm not advocating drug use, but I think I have a valid view in that: Some psychedelics can SHOW you some profound states of consciousness, and can be learnt from.
For me they SHOW you the top of the mountain, leaving you the choice to climb it. Please I'm not saying anyone should do drugs, I just dont think the "spirituality" of some psychedelics should be completely ignored as merely "intoxication". I'm sorry if this view offends anyone.
@FreeofwantWdumean OK, but let's take a deep breath before replying from now on, alright? Assume the moderators have positive goals, not God-complexes.
Speak for yourself. I don't call myself 'God Emperor' for nothing.
We should be mindful that no matter how right we think we are (personally), we could be thinking wrong and speaking/acting unskillfully as result. That being said, this is a private forum and follows the same rules as if you were standing in Lincoln's living room. If he finds something to be inappropriate, it's inappropriate. He's got himself some volunteer helpers (moderators) to keep the inappropriate at bay, and he keeps the moderators in line. If there's a problem, it'll be dealt with on whichever level it needs to be.
Public antagonizing and the like of NewBuddhist staff is not appropriate at all, and if you feel there's something to be said about a moderator, use the Private Message function to message @Lincoln.
I think its like sexuality. Does it in itself lead to enlightenment? Nope. Can it give you bad things. AIDS, addiction, unwanted pregs, gang violence. Its hard to find the right analogy. A candle unattended? It is dangerous. Even if you put it in a bowl on a plate with a glass of water next to it. But all those things are better than not. If you drink give your keys or stay at home. If you turn 21 and your friends pressure you to be the life of the party, excuse yourself to throw up. Little tricks I learned of necessity. Not to glamorize just making the point to not throw caution to the wind whatever you decide to do. Don't be that guy. And if you are then theres always steps you can take and its never too late to practice buddhism.
No, that was me giving you a talking to. If a moderator addresses you abruptly, be mindful how you respond and interpret it. Let it go.
REFORMMMM! lol jokes. Lincoln this quoting system is a little bit hard to use, is there a way you can make it so there is no text of the original question in the typing box? I have no idea how hard that is to do, might be helpful. Thanks for the email, and everything else peace!
Contrary to federica's claim, the fifth precept is pretty ambiguous about this. The text is more literally translated as "fermented drink that causes heedlessness". This is clearly only about alcohol; since the use of soma (possibly psychedelic mushrooms) and marijuana was known in the Buddha's time and place, I would suggest this specificity is significant.
Regardless of whether alcohol only or any heedlessness-causing agent is meant, I don't think it is correct to suggest that "mind-altering" in and of itself means clouded mind or addled thinking. Someone else here mentions having attempted (attained?) a biochemistry degree; as an actual biochemist, I feel the use of some drugs is consistent with both Buddhism and physical and mental health. I'll limit my comments to this, since the staff is in favor of limiting drug discussion.
Intent is the key. The intention of the precept, the unskillful karma it prevents and the cultivation of wholesome mental states it engenders are what we're looking for. Not the wording, not the translation, but the bigger picture.
That's your interpretation... and I agree with it, as it happens. Thus my addendum that even if all heedlessness-causing drugs are meant (and I think that is what is meant), there are possibly some drugs that are okay - that are not mutually exclusive with mindfulness.
The Buddha apparently felt marijuana is not always to be included in the category of "heedlessness-causing". If we're going to be quoting the precepts as authorities, then I think it is reasonable to suggest we should quote the actual text. It is possible that someone's position may be based on this wording, after all.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Jeff guy, This I am totally cool with. Fed she just.. the way she deals with her moderator status of powers was so annoying, can you give her a talking to? If she had said anything 25% as nicely as you have done I would have not been so disappointed in this site.
If you go back and read my posts, I didn't say anything about drug discussion being offensive. I said the advocacy and encouragement of taking drugs has no place here. I appreciate this is all water under the bridge, and I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clearer. But please go back and read my original post. You entirely misinterpreted what I said. More established members of the forum know my stance very well....
For my part, as a moderator, I also tend to come down quite hard on those who advocate, recommend or encourage the taking or experimenting with any and such drugs, in open forum.
Nothing there suggests discussion about drugs is a no-no.
I think it's appropriate for everyone to remember, we have two ears, two eyes and one mouth. Using them in suitable proportion is always an advantage. Thanks.
The Buddha apparently felt marijuana is not always to be included in the category of "heedlessness-causing". If we're going to be quoting the precepts as authorities, then I think it is reasonable to suggest we should quote the actual text.
So where's the actual text regarding the Buddha and marijuana?
@Federica well I'm glad you were able to "step in". No I did not misinterpret what you said, I thought your choice of tone was intrusive, annoying to me, and a little pretentious for a forum. Can you list the things were not aloud to talk about? I want to know how I feel about the whole thing.
The Chinese texts appear to be worded the same way. I assume Mahayana Buddhism uses the same texts, regarding the Five Precepts, as Theravada, but I don't know.
At least in your Wikipedia reference, it says only "fermented drink". Hmmm.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2011
@Federica well I'm glad you were able to "step in". No I did not misinterpret what you said, I thought your choice of tone was intrusive, annoying to me, and a little pretentious for a forum. Can you list the things were not aloud to talk about? I want to know how I feel about the whole thing.
@FreeofwantWdumean, I really think we're done here. There's little point or need of continuing. if something's still bugging you, PM me. Otherwise, I think everything's been made adequately clear, ok?
There's a thread called "NewBuddhist, or something else"? I think the point of that thread is sort of what we're dealing with when we takl about drugs being a path to something good or w/e.
People like Ram Dass, Terrance Mckenna, Timothy Leary had their ideas, but they weren't advocating drugs as Buddhists. Like a teacher I once met says, anyone who takes drugs and thinks they can make progress on the path are only fooling themselves. And how much to drink will you have? A little dung still smells like dung.
Buddhism is about looking into the very nature of reality and your mind to free yourself of needless suffering. We do the work of meditation to find this peace and insight.
"I used to enjoy smoking a joint or pipe from time to time, but would have instant anxiety even before smoking because I would have bad trips and anxiety at times."
If it doesn't help why do you it?
"Aside from Buddhism frowning up smoking cannabis what do you think I could turn to to calm myself and enjoy myself if I run into a bad trip?"
What is a bad trip? The question you pose should provide you with some insight. Are you trying to grasp at feeling better. This attachment could be the source of the problem.
"Has anyone meditated while using cannabis or done anything cannabis avec Buddhism related?"
Yes. In my experience the 2 activities - meditation and being high on the refer - do not go together. The marijuana creates an altered state of consciousness, but not awareness or mindfulness.
I've experimented with different entheogens & recreationals when I was younger, and though knowing it is a road that can lead to insight, it doesn't overlap with Buddhist practice. I say this outside of the fact that it's a Buddhist precept as each have completely different aesthetics and goals. Entheogenic use of plants and drugs brings conceptual elaboration along with the experience, whereas in Buddhism there's clarity by seeing things as they are without conceptual elaboration.
Why lace meditation with something else when you can get it pure
Comments
It's not a freedom of speech issue. Go into a family restaurant and start loudly suggesting to everyone they try meth. Hey guess what? They'll kick you out. Same here.
Some psychedelics can SHOW you some profound states of consciousness, and can be learnt from.
For me they SHOW you the top of the mountain, leaving you the choice to climb it.
Please I'm not saying anyone should do drugs, I just dont think the "spirituality" of some psychedelics should be completely ignored as merely "intoxication".
I'm sorry if this view offends anyone.
I really miss your sig, @Jason.
Public antagonizing and the like of NewBuddhist staff is not appropriate at all, and if you feel there's something to be said about a moderator, use the Private Message function to message @Lincoln.
That said, let the original discussion continue!
Regardless of whether alcohol only or any heedlessness-causing agent is meant, I don't think it is correct to suggest that "mind-altering" in and of itself means clouded mind or addled thinking. Someone else here mentions having attempted (attained?) a biochemistry degree; as an actual biochemist, I feel the use of some drugs is consistent with both Buddhism and physical and mental health. I'll limit my comments to this, since the staff is in favor of limiting drug discussion.
The Buddha apparently felt marijuana is not always to be included in the category of "heedlessness-causing". If we're going to be quoting the precepts as authorities, then I think it is reasonable to suggest we should quote the actual text. It is possible that someone's position may be based on this wording, after all.
I appreciate this is all water under the bridge, and I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clearer. But please go back and read my original post. You entirely misinterpreted what I said. More established members of the forum know my stance very well.... Nothing there suggests discussion about drugs is a no-no.
I think it's appropriate for everyone to remember, we have two ears, two eyes and one mouth.
Using them in suitable proportion is always an advantage.
Thanks.
The Chinese texts appear to be worded the same way. I assume Mahayana Buddhism uses the same texts, regarding the Five Precepts, as Theravada, but I don't know.
There's little point or need of continuing.
if something's still bugging you, PM me. Otherwise, I think everything's been made adequately clear, ok?
People like Ram Dass, Terrance Mckenna, Timothy Leary had their ideas, but they weren't advocating drugs as Buddhists. Like a teacher I once met says, anyone who takes drugs and thinks they can make progress on the path are only fooling themselves. And how much to drink will you have? A little dung still smells like dung.
Buddhism is about looking into the very nature of reality and your mind to free yourself of needless suffering.
We do the work of meditation to find this peace and insight.
"I used to enjoy smoking a joint or pipe from time to time, but would have instant anxiety even before smoking because I would have bad trips and anxiety at times."
If it doesn't help why do you it?
"Aside from Buddhism frowning up smoking cannabis what do you think I could turn to to calm myself and enjoy myself if I run into a bad trip?"
What is a bad trip?
The question you pose should provide you with some insight. Are you trying to grasp at feeling better. This attachment could be the source of the problem.
"Has anyone meditated while using cannabis or done anything cannabis avec Buddhism related?"
Yes. In my experience the 2 activities - meditation and being high on the refer - do not go together. The marijuana creates an altered state of consciousness, but not awareness or mindfulness.
Why lace meditation with something else when you can get it pure