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Terrible...you all have to talk to this guy

edited January 2007 in Buddhism Today
Hello All,

I just visited a site I found quite disturbing. It promotes something Buddha himself was against and is actually one of the reasons for the foundation of Buddhism. I left this gentleman a message in his guest book. I suggest you all visit his site, and maybe leave him some messages as well. In my opinion he is equating Buddhism with something quite contradictory. The address is: http://www.proudblackbuddhist.org/

Yours In Love,

Comments

  • edited December 2005
    Unfortunately this is not surprising with Nichiren followers and I'd say it is indeed contradictory to the entire spirit of Buddhism.
  • JerbearJerbear Veteran
    edited December 2005
    I picked up a book last year called "The Buddha in Your Mirror" which was about Nichiren Buddhism. I was quite shocked by it. I can't remember what it is they chant, but it is supposed to get you what you want in life. I was rather surprised by this as I thought we were supposed to be learning how to detach ourselves from things, people and ideas. Needless to say, I didn't finish it. Haven't been sure what to do with the book since. Chanting has it's place, but not as a means to get what you want.
  • edited December 2005
    I am going to have to study about Nichiren Buddhism. I have to admit I know nothing about it. But from what people have been telling me it sounds pretty alarming.
  • edited December 2005
    Nichiren can tend to be a tad "sure of itself."

    Sometimes a vacant smile is an appropriate response.

    gassho
    -fd-
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited December 2005
    Is Nichiren the school that has had so much influence on Japanese Martial Arts? That might be why I keep getting into it with you guys.
  • edited December 2005
    Buddhism is about breaking down boundries IMO....Why not have a site for people that are 4ft 10ins(Fede could join) this site is nonsense!

    " Many of the things that I write about on this site I really do not know and understand. This site is the result of a "Spirit" that gets inside of me and things just come from knows where"

    This one of the many high quality extracts:confused:
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited December 2005
    I seem to remember another member of this sangha (that I haven't heard from for a bit) that followed this particular path of Buddhism.

    They used to do things like ream people out verbally which allowed her to take their bad/negative karma and then transform it into something else my attacking it with a certain incantation or chant...

    -bf
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited December 2005
    TexZen wrote:
    Nichiren can tend to be a tad "sure of itself."

    Sometimes a vacant smile is an appropriate response.

    gassho
    -fd-

    Alas, at times, we may all be guilty of passing off our certainties as Right View, particularly when they clash with another's!
  • SabineSabine Veteran
    edited December 2005
    Oh, NO. Does this make us look bad? :(

    I guess the site's creator just wanted to unite black Buddhists. I read an article somewhere that only 3% of America's Buddhists are black, so I guess he wanted to let the rest of us know that we're not alone? I dunno...jeez, what a terrible way to go about it, though.

    Ugh. I apologize FOR him. :bawling:
  • edited December 2005
    Identifying himself as a "proud" "black" Buddhist... I have put color behind me and pride is nothing I aspire to. I'll pass on the site and his teachings.
  • edited December 2005
    There's a surprise.........
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited January 2006
    LMFAO That site made me laugh out loud. Pure entertainment.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Why should you apologize for him.

    The only color I see in you, Sabine, is the background color I've selected for my text box :) Sometimes you're a bright white, sometimes you're a dark black, sometimes your an intense green, sometimes a deep blue. That all I need to know...

    -bf
  • edited January 2006
    buddhafoot wrote:
    The only color I see in you, Sabine, is the background color I've selected for my text box :) Sometimes you're a bright white, sometimes you're a dark black, sometimes your an intense green, sometimes a deep blue. That all I need to know...

    -bf

    If kindness was a color
    It would be clear

    ;)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Hunt4life wrote:
    If kindness was a color
    It would be clear

    ;)

    Do we have no members who experience synthaesthesia? They could tell us the colour of kindness.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    :wtf:
  • edited January 2006
    Do we have no members who experience synthaesthesia?

    Not me and I misplaced my synthaesthesia inhanced Ray-Bans.
  • edited January 2006
    Do we have no members who experience synthaesthesia? They could tell us the colour of kindness.

    but wouldnt that be only their conditioned association to the emotion of that colour :-/
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Darryl wrote:
    but wouldnt that be only their conditioned association to the emotion of that colour :-/

    And what else is any perception that we interpret as 'colour'?
  • edited January 2006
    His road to true happiness is very rough
  • edited January 2006
    then there is no truth. only perception. i think my green is everyones green and thats it.
    i would be afriad to wake up and my green turned red, how terrifying.

    also another theory to support my green is everyones green. people go crazy overnight, but why do people not wake up with altered colour perception? because it doesnt exist.

    sorry to digress from this topic everyone. :poke: simon ;)
  • edited January 2006
    The whole site is bizarre, it's aim - and let's be generous - is to encourage more African and African Americans to explore Buddhism; oh and as an afterthought anyone else who wants to join. Our Sangha was created to offer an global opportunity for everyone to share their views, experiences and teachings of Buddhism. Brian also invited contributions from all of the other major religions, so it's an all-embracing eclectic mix but with Buddhism at it's core.

    The founder of this site has claimed that it would offer an 'African-American' culture by using such words as 'Homey' or 'Give some skin' phrases that 'you white people' may not understand. I am left with the idea that this man believes that the entire 'African American' community can only communicate in 'Street Talk'....What is he going to do - have all the Suttras translated in to Slang?...Patronising or what?!

    The fact is, and the fact remains that if I as a 'White Caucasian'( I think this is the nonsense term that applies) created a site like this I would be called a 'Red Neck', White Supremist, etc...Does this site reflect badly on the 'African American' community? IMHO NO. They will see right through this....I dread to think what the great Martin Luther King would make of this forum:(
  • edited January 2006
    Abraham wrote:
    The whole site is bizarre, it's aim - and let's be generous - is to encourage more African and African Americans to explore Buddhism; oh and as an afterthought anyone else who wants to join. Our Sangha was created to offer an global opportunity for everyone to share their views, experiences and teachings of Buddhism. Brian also invited contributions from all of the other major religions, so it's an all-embracing eclectic mix but with Buddhism at it's core.

    The founder of this site has claimed that it would offer an 'African-American' culture by using such words as 'Homey' or 'Give some skin' phrases that 'you white people' may not understand. I am left with the idea that this man believes that the entire 'African American' community can only communicate in 'Street Talk'....What is he going to do - have all the Suttras translated in to Slang?...Patronising or what?!

    The fact is, and the fact remains that if I as a 'White Caucasian'( I think this is the nonsense term that applies) created a site like this I would be called a 'Red Neck', White Supremist, etc...Does this site reflect badly on the 'African American' community? IMHO NO. They will see right through this....I dread to think what the great Martin Luther King would make of this forum:(

    All the masters speak of "expedient means" in conveying the dhrma. To you or I, this fellow's means may not be appropriate to convey the underlying dharma. To others it may be "just what the doctor ordered. Perhaps this fellow's site eventually will lead some to understand an underlying truth -- racism (while ver rel in and of itself) is really classism. An effort to dived "us" from "them" in order to enforce an egoistic viewpoint and maintain the power structure.

    gsasho
    -fd-
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited January 2006
    I am wondering if anyone here is angry at this guy? I myself am still laughing. I think Buddha would get a laugh out of it, too.
  • JerbearJerbear Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Simon,
    I am sorry to correct you but it is synesthesia. I had it when I used to do a lot of......OOPS!
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2006
    oh brother...
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2006
    You know every time I post to one of these forums-trouble starts to brew-so I'm not going to say anything ... ;-)
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Bugger it! I will say something.

    Something.

    There, I said it!

    (now let's see who this stirs up shall we?....)

    cheers
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    Jerbear wrote:
    Simon,
    I am sorry to correct you but it is synesthesia. I had it when I used to do a lot of......OOPS!

    maybe what's needed is ANAEsthesia....
  • edited January 2007
    Unfortunately this is not surprising with Nichiren followers and I'd say it is indeed contradictory to the entire spirit of Buddhism.
    As a Nichiren Daishonin Buddhist I'm deeply offended by your snide, hatefully judgemental remarks. The man being talked about in this article is a rascist. Not too different from a zen buddhist who practices bigotry. SHAME ON YOU !:(
  • edited January 2007
    Jerbear wrote:
    I picked up a book last year called "The Buddha in Your Mirror" which was about Nichiren Buddhism. I was quite shocked by it. I can't remember what it is they chant, but it is supposed to get you what you want in life. I was rather surprised by this as I thought we were supposed to be learning how to detach ourselves from things, people and ideas. Needless to say, I didn't finish it. Haven't been sure what to do with the book since. Chanting has it's place, but not as a means to get what you want.
    It seems you have a lot in common with "zenmonk". I do'nt see why the "buddhists"who are creating an atmosphere of hatred and judgement against followers of Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism have any damn room to judge this man for being a rascist when you yourselves when (those of you who I thought were my brothers in Buddhism) have chosen to create your own witch-burning trials....I AM CRYING AS I READ THESE HATEFUL REMARKS! HOW DARE YOU JUDGE ME AND MY PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT! I AM HURT-DAMN YOU ALL ! I THOUGHT I WAS LOVED ! I THOUGHT I WAS AMONG FRIENDS! YOU HAVE DEEPLY WOUNDED ME! I'M CRYING I TELL YOU ! I'M CRYING !.......YOU OWE ME A SINCERE APOLOGY! YOU OWE ALL NICHIREN BUDDHISTS AN APOLOGY ! HOW DARE YOU SAY I'M NOT AS MUCH A BUDDHIST AS THE REST OF YOU ! HOW DARE YOU ! DAMN YOU FOR YOUR ARROGANT HYPOCRISY! YOU'VE CUT ME TO THE BONE! I HOPE YOUR EGOS AND SUPERIOR INTELLECTS ARE SATISFIED ! I THOUGHT WE WERE IN THIS BOAT TOGETHER ! NOW YOU'VE MADE US FEEL LIKE WE DO'NT BELONG!:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2007
    Ok, just chill. :wtf:
    It's horses for courses, and there's plenty of room for everyone to have an opinion if they want to have one. Just because you choose to practise a specific line of Buddhism, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it, or do the same. Don't take it personally, it's the system, not you, that others have chosen to disregard.

    Now stop being so hyper-sensitive and have a cup of tea. :type:
  • edited January 2007
    Everyone -

    Please be aware that Nichiren Buddhism is a fairly broad tradition (if I may call it that) with some 40 different schools and many different organizations within those schools. To characterize all Nichiren Buddhists by the actions of a few is no different than any other stereotyping - and is something I think the Buddha would not have done. The choice is of course yours..................
  • edited January 2007
    YOU OWE ALL NICHIREN BUDDHISTS AN APOLOGY ! HOW DARE YOU SAY I'M NOT AS MUCH A BUDDHIST AS THE REST OF YOU ! HOW DARE YOU ! DAMN YOU FOR YOUR ARROGANT HYPOCRISY! YOU'VE CUT ME TO THE BONE! I HOPE YOUR EGOS AND SUPERIOR INTELLECTS ARE SATISFIED ! I THOUGHT WE WERE IN THIS BOAT TOGETHER ! NOW YOU'VE MADE US FEEL LIKE WE DO'NT BELONG!
    David -

    Please relax. There are many intolerant Nichiren Buddhists, from several different schools, whose actions can cause people to react the way these have. I personally witnessed (and tried to ameliorate) such an exchange between Zenmonk Genryu and another Nichiren Buddhist on a different forum within the last two weeks. After what this other Buddhist said to and about Genryu, I am unsurprised that he would say what he has in this thread.

    All we can do is to show people that the actions of a few do not describe the actions of all, and that Nichiren Buddhism is as much a valid Dharma Gate as any other. I don't choose to practice Zen, or Vajrayana, or Theravada; I don't expect anyone else to necessarily practice Nichiren Buddhism either. I try to show by my actions and words that there are sincere, toelrant, respectful Nichiren Buddhists in the world. Beyond that, each person makes their own choices, and we all receive the karmic effects of the choices we make. That principle applies, no matter whether one does or does not practice Buddhism or what form one practices.

    All you can do is to make choices for yourself that you can be happy with and that you can live with. Please don't be upset when others make choices you disagree with; these are their choices to make, and not yours. I long ago gave up expecting anything different from from Buddhists than I do from the rest of humanity; we are all human too, and I daresay most of us have not yet fully awakened. Sorry for the rant, but I hope that you don't get too emotionally upset by these kinds of things, as they will continue to happen for some time yet to come.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Ummm... wow.

    -bf
  • Bunny_HereBunny_Here Explorer
    edited January 2007
    As a Nichiren Daishonin Buddhist I'm deeply offended by your snide, hatefully judgemental remarks. The man being talked about in this article is a rascist. Not too different from a zen buddhist who practices bigotry. SHAME ON YOU !:(

    Hi masteravatardavidstar. I see from your profile that you've joined here recently. Welcome- it's good to meet you!

    Zenmonk _genryu is not able to respond to your post. If you check his profile, you will see that he has been banned.
    Engyo wrote:
    Everyone -

    Please be aware that Nichiren Buddhism is a fairly broad tradition (if I may call it that) with some 40 different schools and many different organizations within those schools. To characterize all Nichiren Buddhists by the actions of a few is no different than any other stereotyping - and is something I think the Buddha would not have done. The choice is of course yours..................

    Welcome aboard! It is nice to meet you as well, Engyo!

    Actually, I am familiar with your posts at the other forum you mentioned. I have learned a lot about Nichiren Buddhism from you and I would like to thank you! I look forward to reading more from you on both boards. :smilec:
  • edited January 2007
    Bunny_Here wrote:
    Welcome aboard! It is nice to meet you as well, Engyo!

    Actually, I am familiar with your posts at Beliefnet. I have learned a lot about Nichiren Buddhism from you and I would like to thank you! I look forward to reading more from you on both boards. :smilec:
    Thank you very much, Bunny -

    I am looking forward to it as well.
  • edited January 2007
    ``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who harbour such thoughts hatred is not appeased.

    ``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred is appeased.
    Dhammapada 1:3-4


    When others speak as do many of the Sokka Gakkai / Nichiren Shoshu, the SG/NS always cry "foul." Karma's a bitch -- ain't it.

    Perhaps if all accepted the right of "others" to follow the Way according to their own understandings, the all would find more peace. Less sectarian "triumph" perhaps -- but much more peace.

    Namo Amitofo
    -fd-
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Perhaps all 'sides' need to lighten up. Let's have lots more laughter and lots less anal retentiveness.

    I think religious adherents can behave a bit like some Premier League and International footballers: they 'dive' and then cry foul.

  • edited January 2007
    There is also great peace in active practice as opposed to -- for example-- hanging out on chatboards for hours every day.

    Some actual practice of precepts does wonders for us all.

    Joyous and prosperous New Year, my friends. See you agan in a few months or a few days -- who knows.

    Namo Amitofo
    -Fa Dao-
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2007
    Everyone,
    "Monks, these eight worldly conditions spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions. Which eight? Gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. These are the eight worldly conditions that spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions.

    "For an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person there arise gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. For a well-instructed disciple of the noble ones there also arise gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. So what difference, what distinction, what distinguishing factor is there between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person?"

    "For us, lord, the teachings have the Blessed One as their root, their guide, & their arbitrator. It would be good if the Blessed One himself would explicate the meaning of this statement. Having heard it from the Blessed One, the monks will remember it."

    "In that case, monks, listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

    "As you say, lord," the monks responded.

    The Blessed One said, "Gain arises for an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person. He does not reflect, 'Gain has arisen for me. It is inconstant, stressful, & subject to change.' He does not discern it as it actually is.

    "Loss arises... Status arises... Disgrace arises... Censure arises... Praise arises... Pleasure arises...

    "Pain arises. He does not reflect, 'Pain has arisen for me. It is inconstant, stressful, & subject to change.' He does not discern it as it actually is.

    "His mind remains consumed with the gain. His mind remains consumed with the loss... with the status... the disgrace... the censure... the praise... the pleasure. His mind remains consumed with the pain.

    "He welcomes the arisen gain and rebels against the arisen loss. He welcomes the arisen status and rebels against the arisen disgrace. He welcomes the arisen praise and rebels against the arisen censure. He welcomes the arisen pleasure and rebels against the arisen pain. As he is thus engaged in welcoming & rebelling, he is not released from birth, aging, or death; from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, or despairs. He is not released, I tell you, from suffering & stress.

    "Now, gain arises for a well-instructed disciple of the noble ones. He reflects, 'Gain has arisen for me. It is inconstant, stressful, & subject to change.' He discerns it as it actually is.

    "Loss arises... Status arises... Disgrace arises... Censure arises... Praise arises... Pleasure arises...

    "Pain arises. He reflects, 'Pain has arisen for me. It is inconstant, stressful, & subject to change.' He discerns it as it actually is.

    "His mind does not remain consumed with the gain. His mind does not remain consumed with the loss... with the status... the disgrace... the censure... the praise... the pleasure. His mind does not remain consumed with the pain.

    "He does not welcome the arisen gain, or rebel against the arisen loss. He does not welcome the arisen status, or rebel against the arisen disgrace. He does not welcome the arisen praise, or rebel against the arisen censure. He does not welcome the arisen pleasure, or rebel against the arisen pain. As he thus abandons welcoming & rebelling, he is released from birth, aging, & death; from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is released, I tell you, from suffering & stress.

    "This is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person."

    Gain/loss,
    status/disgrace,
    censure/praise,
    pleasure/pain:
    these conditions among human beings
    are inconstant,
    impermanent,
    subject to change.

    Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
    ponders these changing conditions.
    Desirable things don't charm the mind,
    undesirable ones bring no resistance.

    His welcoming
    & rebelling are scattered,
    gone to their end,
    do not exist.
    Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
    he discerns rightly,
    has gone, beyond becoming,
    to the Further Shore. (AN 8.6)

    Sincerely,

    Jason
  • edited January 2007
    Damma: that site is so full of provacative things. Which did you take most issue with? Why?

    I also think it is not helpful to disparage him as so cooky (sp?). I think much of his appraoch weird and wacky but his sentiment comes from a place we could learn from if we lived with it.

    I think this discussion would go way different in a majority US buddhists of color group. The ludicrousness of his site would not be so extreme in other non primarily white circles. Or at lest he would not be ridiculed as much as critically debated or challenged.

    But that, my friends is my unpopular viewpoint, lol. And, yes I do think that it is a point that most white folk will not 'get ' on a gut feeling but perhaps intellectually...

    I beleive when I or other people of color talk about the place of non- whites in US Buddhist movement (and yes, Genryu, I am not white , lol- damn, when will that Englishman get that that issue is different in the US?!), we are not talking of the absolute. We are not implying our true nature has a race. But we live in relative world where these things have great influence.

    And who ever said the thing about making a place for short people is simlar to people of color creating spaces for their specifically addressed issues:
    really..open your eyes, learn some history and make an intelligent social observation. Is that analogy anthing but trivializing?

    So ,I feel the need to say I do not agree on much of what that guy's site is about, but I found the way it was ridiculed here pushed buttons for me and made my gut tight. Like when I was in uncomforatble position of being only person of color ina group of friends and witnessing an ignorant remark asbout race, languaghe or soemthing, and feeling I will have to be the one to say soemthing cuz nobody else noticed...

    Anyway...I do not know if you all understand what I mean?
  • edited January 2007
    LatinaMermaid -

    I believe I understand, at least to an extent; I am white but my wife and daughter are of color, and so is half our Sangha. These are real issues, whether folks are comfortable discussing them or not.

    In addition, we (my Sangha) must try to teach folks that this sort of thing does not represent all Nichiren Buddhists, but only a few schools. Unfortunately, "Nichiren Buddhists behaving badly" tend to draw lots of attention, but ones who don't behave badly aren't very interesting, it seems.
  • edited January 2007
    federica wrote:
    Ok, just chill. :wtf:
    It's horses for courses, and there's plenty of room for everyone to have an opinion if they want to have one. Just because you choose to practise a specific line of Buddhism, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it, or do the same. Don't take it personally, it's the system, not you, that others have chosen to disregard.

    Now stop being so hyper-sensitive and have a cup of tea. :type:
    I'VE HAD MY CUP OF TEA AND I'M CHILLED NOW. SORRY FOR THE DRAMATIC MELTDOWN GUYS !....P.S. GOOD ADVICE.
  • edited January 2007
    Bunny_Here wrote:
    Hi masteravatardavidstar. I see from your profile that you've joined here recently. Welcome- it's good to meet you!

    Zenmonk _genryu is not able to respond to your post. If you check his profile, you will see that he has been banned.



    Welcome aboard! It is nice to meet you as well, Engyo!

    Actually, I am familiar with your posts at the other forum you mentioned. I have learned a lot about Nichiren Buddhism from you and I would like to thank you! I look forward to reading more from you on both boards. :smilec:
    THANK'S FOR THE WELCOME, THE LOVE, & (MOST OF ALL) THE COMPASSION !!!!
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2007
    okay....
  • Bunny_HereBunny_Here Explorer
    edited January 2007
    THANK'S FOR THE WELCOME, THE LOVE, & (MOST OF ALL) THE COMPASSION !!!!

    Thank you for your very kind words. :)
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