Do you think there's major disruptive turmoil in our USA/CAN future?

Roger

I'm willing to face whatever comes along. What do you think is in our future?

Context: My young relative just got his full-fledged MD and is now practicing. He's got three kids, house, nice wife; he earned it, he is/was a hard worker.

Problem for me: I see them and can't imagine their four year old (the oldest) having a life that's been "nice" like ours (assuming you're now 30-60 years old).

We always had optimism, an expanding economy, stability, no discontent like Limbaugh and Beck.

What do you think the future in the USA, Canada holds? Will we be standing in gov't cheese lines? If so when will that happen?

Will the bottom drop out? What are the chances? More poverty, more guns more violence?

Sorry for the anxious question: believe me when I claim I drank two cups of coffee. NOT my usual ONE. I'm feeling anxious DARN IT!

TreeLuvr87

None of us know, man. Even thinking about the possibilities brings up a ton of suffering for me. Just be in the present moment as much as you can, and as long as in this present moment, you want to take care of yourself and give yourself a little cushion, you'll be better prepared for any harder moments that come along.

Talisman

There is impermanence in all things. Hard times come and go, as do good times. Perform skillfully in the actions you are capable of taking at this time and don't let the mystery of what is to come drag you into suffering or discontent.

fivebells

Yes, there are bad times ahead. I wrote a bit about it here.

SherabDorje

I think Roger's question is serious and deserves a serious and well-thought-out answer. It's a lot to think about, for sure, and I am going to try to answer comprehensively sometime today.

Gasoline prices are predicted to be $5 in the US by summer. This could be the start of something big.

finding0

It does not matter. Be here and now. Worrying about something in the future is like worrying about death. Be here now. Being in the past you will feel drag, being in the future you will feel strain

finding0

federica

Gasoline prices are predicted to be $5 in the US by summer. This could be the start of something big.

What for, per litre, or per gallon?

petrol prices in the UK are £1.40/litre.
There are approximately 4 litres per gallon. That's £5.60 per gallon.

That's approximately $9.60.

you still got it easy.

SherabDorje

0, my connection is not fast enough to watch those videos, but your answer seems to be very self-oriented rather than engagement-oriented. My question is still forming, but it's something like "How will we as Buddhists engage in society if there is major turmoil?". I think in this case talking about not dragging ourselves down or straining ourselves is too self-oriented. How will we as Buddhists engage with major social turmoil if it comes?

Fed, I know we have it easy here in the US. We've had it far too easy for far too long. The Obama administration has tried to encourage the use of commuter bullet trains and other forms of mass transportation but he can't get the rest of Congress to go along. My point is that Yanks will not be able to adapt when the poop strikes the ventilator.

finding0

my point is. its furture. No point of even worrying about it. It is a delusion. the only truth is here and now. When you are here and now you will never suffer.

Talisman

Adapt and overcome. How could we possibly prepare for soemthing if we don't know what to prepare for?

SherabDorje

my point is. its furture. No point of even worrying about it. It is a delusion. the only truth is here and now. When you are here and now you will never suffer.

Do you go to a grocery store to buy food? How do you get there? Do you live somewhere? How do you heat and cool your home? Do you have a job? How do you get there?

There's "worrying excessively about the future" and then there's intelligent planning. If nothing else, one living in the USA or Canada might plan to buy a motor scooter to use instead of a car if gasoline prices keep rising.

Or is that thinking too far ahead? Is being unable to afford to buy enough gasoline to go to the grocery store to buy food (the price of which is rising due to transportation costs) just a delusion?

finding0

When one is here and now they live from the heart. And when you live from the heart you simply just do with out thinking about it. Like a bee. They make a nest, gaurd the nest, collect nectar to make honey. They don't think about it they simply do. It is the egoic mind that believes it knows best. It believes it needs its thinking process to survive. One must trust their true nature and simply just be.

fivebells

We should play chess some time, finding0. I love to win, and with your attitude to planning, I would be bound to.

SherabDorje

Zero, who cleans the toilet where you live? Who washes your clothes?

Mountains

Short answer: yes. Not just US/Canada. Worldwide. As the rich get ever-richer and the poor get ever-poorer, and as we barrel headlong into worldwide shortages of fuel, food, and other commodities, there will be ever-greater conflict and strife. This is really nothing new, but nations (like the US) that have never experienced any kind of serious unrest in living memory (in the case of the US, since 1865) are very likely to get some first hand experience with it.

finding0

When you surrender your ego you will do what is needed to be done when it is needed to be done. There is no thinking involved. You just simply are. You ride the flow of the universe instead of trying to create the flow. When you ride it completly and fully it will bring you to were and what is needed. You will understand once you can surrender ego fully and be in this moment.

fivebells

You still act with thought for the future, though. You're just more flexible about adjusting when things don't pan out the way you expected. Uchiyama Roshi had something to say about this in How To Cook Your Life:

...in this world of impermanence we have no idea what may occur during the night, maybe there will be an earthquake, or a disastrous fire, war may break out or perhaps a revolution might erupt, or we, ourselves, could very well meet death. Nevertheless, we are told to prepare the gruel for the following morning and make a plan for lunch. Moreover, we are to do this as tonight's work. In preparing the meal for the following day as tonight's work there is no goal for tomorrow being established, yet our direction for right now is clear; prepare tomorrow's meal.

SherabDorje

Short answer: yes. Not just US/Canada. Worldwide. As the rich get ever-richer and the poor get ever-poorer, and as we barrel headlong into worldwide shortages of fuel, food, and other commodities, there will be ever-greater conflict and strife. This is really nothing new, but nations (like the US) that have never experienced any kind of serious unrest in living memory (in the case of the US, since 1865) are very likely to get some first hand experience with it.

@Roger- rather than hijack your thread, could you please expand the question to include the whole world? I agree with Mountains. This is going to be worldwide.

And I still want to know if Zero does his own laundry or what. There has to be some planning in order to live.

finding0

I do my laundry when my heart tells me to. Planning is not needed. You can not understand because your whole life and as most other have only lived through the eyes of the limited egoic mind. When you live through the heart it is a whole new world that simply can not be understood by the limited mind. It must be experienced. There must be self realization. And the only way to do so is to surrender ego through consistent meditation

Talisman

You know what I'm doing to prepare for the future? I'm working two jobs. I'm enjoying my relationships with the family and friends. I'm studying. I'm saving money to get back to school. I'm making plans for marrying my girlfriend within the next year or so. I'm meditating to strengthen my concentration. I'm practicing mindfulness and loving-kindness toward the people who come and go in my life.

I cannot control nor fully understand the many goings-on of the greater global geo-political-socail environment. I prefer to keep things simple. When I am confronted with trial, which will certainly occur in one form or another, I will do my best to resolve it skillfully and intelligently.

If I had the resources available to prepare any further for future catastrophe, I surely would take measures to secure the one's I love. But as my resources are limited, I can only have faith in my personal efforts. I see no purpose for unnecesary stress.

Cinorjer

Yes, one day the fragile systems under increasing stress of overpopulation, the gobbling up of remaining resources by the powerful, and the violence of social upheaval will hit full strength. Nothing is eternal. Some generations down the road, perhaps a new way of living together will be born from the chaos.

What does it mean for us? For those on the very bottom and the very top, not much will change. You don't think the world's billionaires will ever go hungry, do you? And for those on the bottom now, if you have nothing to begin with, then it's just another year of starvation and new rulers to order you around.

What can we do as Buddhists? We can be part of the group working to help everyone while the powerful run and hide, and the selfish lash out to take what they want.

Roger

my point is. its future. No point of even worrying about it. It is a delusion. the only truth is here and now. When you are here and now you will never suffer.

Yep. That's how I calm myself down. When I get caught up in the craziness I try to give myself a quick fix of your excellent observation and then continue with the craziness until I can get somewhere "safe" (i.e. not-crazy) and properly get a fuller perspective to truly calm myself down.

Thao

I wonder if people in the 30s when the stock market crashed said the same things as we are all now? I hear it from other people as well; no one feels secure. I basically try not to think about it since I can't do anything about it other than vote. And now at my age I have friends and myself talking about how they are going to take care of themselves when their spouse dies, and will they end up in a horrible rest home? And some say that they are glad that they are old and won't be around when things crumbled, but they might be around. And I used to think how I wouldn't mind coming back to this earth and join a monastery, and now i think, maybe i don't want to come back to this planet, as if i had a choice int he matter.

But i imagine that people during the depression felt the same as we do today. Try reading Hard Times by Studs Terkel. Or Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck. Or other such depressing books. i spent a lot of my years reading these types of books, probably because i have "bag lady syndrome", and now i wish i had spent time reading survival books and applying them.

So, how do i handle it. i put my head in the sand as much as possible. hey, i voted for Obama thinking he would save us, and now all i can do is be grateful McCain didn't get elected. But you know, i wonder how much of this negativity comes from the "politics of fear", and that we are not all just buying into it?

fivebells

I wonder if people in the 30s when the stock market crashed said the same things as we are all now?

There's a lot about this in Galbraith's history of the Great Depression. It was pretty remarkable how resilient the optimism was back then.

So, how do i handle it. i put my head in the sand as much as possible. hey, i voted for Obama thinking he would save us, and now all i can do is be grateful McCain didn't get elected. But you know, i wonder how much of this negativity comes from the "politics of fear", and that we are not all just buying into it?

Things aren't really much better under Obama than they would have been under McCain. The response to the financial crisis has been just as craven and crony-driven.

chanratt

Gasoline prices are predicted to be $5 in the US by summer. This could be the start of something big.

What for, per litre, or per gallon?

petrol prices in the UK are £1.40/litre.
There are approximately 4 litres per gallon. That's £5.60 per gallon.

That's approximately $9.60.

you still got it easy.

problem is in the US its not uncommon to drive 50-100 miles a day for work. i grew up in ireland and you wouldnt drive that in a week. here thats just down the road. in ireland its maybe halfway across the country

Cinorjer

Yes, I lived in England for a few years, and brought my car over with me. And the car mostly sat, because it's better to just take a taxi and bus and train somewhere. But we have cities bigger than the entire island. If the US were the size of England, we wouldn't be forced to own cars, either.

It's not that the people of England wouldn't love not being dependent on public transportation or bumming a ride from their friends who have a car, it's that cars require a huge amound of space they don't have. Most people don't even have a place to park a car, and the roads would all have to be widened and let's not even talk about enormous parking lots needed at every corner store eating up even more space. The US has the luxury of letting this eat up their land. The people of Europe, crammed in like sardines, don't.

Theswingisyellow

I think worrying about the future is pointless. I think preparing for eventualities is not. To act like one lives in a vacuum and simply say it is all empty is not realistic. People die and get hurt in this relative world, sometimes skillfull action is required. Maybe upon seeing a trainload of jews bound for Buchenwald I could say......it's just all empty man, let go of your ego and this train and the suffering of millions is but a dream. Or I could realize the truth of all things that the world is indeed empty but these people are suffering and with great heart and compassion help them.
All the best,
Todd