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Bodhidharma & Stuff
taiyaki
Veteran
"But if it isn’t, then this body is your real body. And this real body is your mind. And this mind, through endless kalpas without beginning, has never varied. It has never lived or died, appeared or disappeared, increased or decreased. Its not pure or impure, good or evil, past or future. It’s not true or false. It’s not mate or female. It doesn’t appear as a monk or a layman, an elder or a novice, a sage or a fool, a Buddha or a mortal. It strives ‘for no realization and suffers no karma. It has no strength or form. It’s like space. You can’t possess it and you can’t lose it. Its movements can’t be blocked by mountains, rivers, or rock walls. Its unstoppable powers penetrate the Mountain of Five Skandhas and cross the River of Samsara." No karma can restrain this real body. But this mind is subtle and hard to see. It’s not the same as the sensual mind. Every I one wants to see this mind, and those who move their hands and feet by its light are as many as the grains of sand along the Ganges, but when you ask them, they can’t explain it. They’re like puppets. It’s theirs to use. Why don’t they see it?
The Buddha said people are deluded. This Is why when they act they fall into the river of endless rebirth. And when they try to get out they only sink deeper. And all because they don’t see their nature. If people weren’t deluded why would they ask about something right in front of them? Not one of they understands the movement of his own hands and feet. The Buddha wasn’t mistaken. Deluded people don’t know who they are. A Buddha and no one else know something so hard to fathom. Only the wise knows mind, this mind call nature, this mind called liberation. Neither life nor death can restrain this mind. Nothing can. It’s also called the Unstoppable Tathagata," the Incomprehensible, the Sacred Self, the Immortal, the Great Sage. Its names vary but not its essence. Buddhas vary too, but none leaves his own mind. The mind’s capacity is limitless, and its manifestations are inexhaustible. Seeing forms with your eyes, hearing sounds with your ears, smelling odors with your nose, tasting flavors with your tongue, every movement or state is your entire mind. At every moment, where language can’t go, that’s your mind."
- a part from "Bloodstream Sermon".
What moves our bodies?
The Buddha said people are deluded. This Is why when they act they fall into the river of endless rebirth. And when they try to get out they only sink deeper. And all because they don’t see their nature. If people weren’t deluded why would they ask about something right in front of them? Not one of they understands the movement of his own hands and feet. The Buddha wasn’t mistaken. Deluded people don’t know who they are. A Buddha and no one else know something so hard to fathom. Only the wise knows mind, this mind call nature, this mind called liberation. Neither life nor death can restrain this mind. Nothing can. It’s also called the Unstoppable Tathagata," the Incomprehensible, the Sacred Self, the Immortal, the Great Sage. Its names vary but not its essence. Buddhas vary too, but none leaves his own mind. The mind’s capacity is limitless, and its manifestations are inexhaustible. Seeing forms with your eyes, hearing sounds with your ears, smelling odors with your nose, tasting flavors with your tongue, every movement or state is your entire mind. At every moment, where language can’t go, that’s your mind."
- a part from "Bloodstream Sermon".
What moves our bodies?
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Comments
(Went over my five minutes to edit.)
With great foresight, the sutta below is appropriately titled: Uninstructed
:bowdown:
All mind is nama dhamma or a conditioned element where as the Nibbana element is the uconditioned element (asankhata dhatu).
Please note, the distinctions here are not intellectual or scholarly. They are the fruits of practise.
Bodhidharma appears to be desribing a Brahma realm, as where Brahma regarded himself as permanent, etc.
:om:
Why is that?
Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more.
But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another.
Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one.
In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another."
Dharma Dhatu,
Maybe I am not seeing the obvious but how does your quotation of the suttas mesh with what taiyaki has quoted from bodhidharma? We also do not take refuge in Shakyamuni!
Second question is local to the sutta. What is the rational for it being inferior to attach to the monkey swinging through the trees rather than attached to the body standing for a lifetime? I'll have to think about that. If I had to bet on a horse I'd bet on one that can let go and grasp as desired, rather than a statue with streams of the 4 sufferings and elements. Why is the body better to regard as self?
It appears to me that the quotation from the OP is based on the Heart Sutra, which is of course one of the Sutras most basic to Mahayana and Zen.
I don't know enough about Theravada or Pali to take issue with your thoughts, but it appears to me that Bodhidharma is simply talking about Bodhi-mind or Buddha-Nature. And of course those are Mahayana concepts.
I would ask you to be respectful enough to Mahayanists to not refer to thoughts attributed to Bodhidharma as "delusions". I was once thought to have committed a "Theravada drive-by" and I have been careful what I say ever since. Would you please do the same?
I give permission to the Mods to delete my posts.
:-/