Relationship between rigpa or big mind etc, conditioned mind, and intentions?

Jeffrey

Any ideas?

Cloud

No idea what you're talking about, no.

Jeffrey

I don't have an exact idea, but many people have a teaching about rigpa. I was curious of the relationship between intentions and then rigpa. Conditioned mind is called sems which means conditioned mind I think. These are set in the Dzogchen tradition. Maybe nobodies on that will answer but perhaps someone will look at the advanced ideas who has heard of these three and more practice with rigpa than I.

compassionate_warrior

Well, Jeffrey, it would help if you gave a definition of rigpa, you know, kind of set up the OP with some background info.

taiyaki

Rigpa (Tibetan; Sanskrit vidya) is the primordial, nondual awareness advocated by the Dzogchen and Mahamudra teachings.
Rigpa is a Tibetan word, which in general means ‘intelligence’ or ‘awareness’. In Dzogchen, however, the highest teachings in the Buddhist tradition of Tibet, rigpa has a deeper connotation, ‘the innermost nature of the mind’. The whole of the teaching of Buddha is directed towards realizing this, our ultimate nature, the state of omniscience or enlightenment – a truth so universal, so primordial that it goes beyond all limits, and beyond even religion itself.[1]
—Sogyal Rinpoche


from wikipedia

taiyaki

seems like its just another word for consciousness, buddha nature, nirvana, non-dual awareness.

or Self (rigpa) and self (conditioned mind).

Jeffrey

Thanks Taiyaki,

So in my thinking Rigpa is the mind that can observe the conditioning. If that mind were conditioned in order to establish it were conditioned you would need another mind to observe that mind.

I think there are different Dzogchen traditions and I have very few elaborations of these concepts to go on.

So how would intention relate? I think intention would be conditioned but also Rigpa would be the alive pole?

taiyaki

What do you mean by intention?

Jeffrey

"or Self (rigpa) and self (conditioned mind)."

I can intuit something but the interesting question is where intention relates to this relationship or recognition?

SherabDorje

Rigpa (Tibetan; Sanskrit vidya) is the primordial, nondual awareness advocated by the Dzogchen and Mahamudra teachings.
Rigpa is a Tibetan word, which in general means ‘intelligence’ or ‘awareness’. In Dzogchen, however, the highest teachings in the Buddhist tradition of Tibet, rigpa has a deeper connotation, ‘the innermost nature of the mind’. The whole of the teaching of Buddha is directed towards realizing this, our ultimate nature, the state of omniscience or enlightenment – a truth so universal, so primordial that it goes beyond all limits, and beyond even religion itself.[1]
—Sogyal Rinpoche


from wikipedia

Seems like that covers it. "Primordial" vs. "conditioned".

Jeffrey

"What do you mean by intention?"

Its difficult to say because we have such knee jerk reactions. And then sometimes we don't feel confused. So. Is intention always there? Rigpa is presumably always there and little self is the flow that we see as things.

I think I mean by intention is the reason we see these stepping stones of things and view? A certain something. Like a true desire? Hmmm

Jeffrey

Sherab,

So the intention is the wish to awaken? That makes sense. Thanks.

SherabDorje

"Conditioned" mind intends. Rigpa is primordial. It's possible for conditioned mind to intend Rigpa but once it reaches Rigpa it no longer intends, because it doesn't need to.

taiyaki

you're looking for the word bodhicitta jeffrey.

taiyaki

at first its good to desire enlightenment, but eventually even that desire needs to be thrown out.

you have to kill the buddha if you meet him in your meditation lol.

SherabDorje

Jeffrey, I hope that answers it. But the question, at least for me, is not framed very clearly. I don't want to start more discussion if you think it makes sense, but the question, for me at least, was hard to understand the way it was framed.

Jeffrey

Sogyal sometimes says he has a rigpa that interacts with his students and helps them. Or that was the implication I read. He probably is not declaring to be a buddha? I think he is using skillful means perhaps to encourage, but also his view on something, at least how he can relate it to his students.

Jeffrey

"Jeffrey, I hope that answers it. But the question, at least for me, is not framed very clearly. I don't want to start more discussion if you think it makes sense, but the question, for me at least, was hard to understand the way it was framed."

That is often a problem for me!

taiyaki

From what I have been told regarding people who are enlightened...the "awareness" does act on its own. almost spontaneously. it gives truth to those who are ready and gives in the right amount.

this kind of reminds me of when i do artwork. at times i wonder where this painting came from. it wasn't my idea. it just came within me and I just made it.

Jeffrey

Yeah sounds like paintings, but thats a good attitude. My teacher says that examples in different skills affect us in some deep way.