Let go of letting go.

Kunga

I found the following teaching by Ajahn Chah to be very helpful. You can find more of his teachings at: http://www.forestsangha.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=29:food-for-the-heart&Itemid=6&layout=default

"When the mind is developing the stages of samādhi it must proceed in this way, but please let us understand the basics of practice. We want to make the mind still but it won't be still. This is practicing out of desire, but we don't realize it. We have the desire for calm. The mind is already disturbed and then we further disturb things by wanting to make it calm. This very wanting is the cause. We don't see that this wanting to calm the mind is tanhā (craving). It's just like increasing the burden. The more we desire calm the more disturbed the mind becomes, until we just give up. We end up fighting all the time, sitting and struggling with ourselves.

Paradox

God, I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that! I've been meditating for 3 or 4 years and i still fall into that trap.

GuyC

Hi Kunga,

Thanks for the post, good reminder.

I wouldn't call this "letting go of letting go" though, it is simply "letting go of craving".

Metta,

Guy

pegembara

You can't let go of letting go but you can let go of trying to let go. Letting go happens by itself when you stop trying.

being

Guyc, but isn't the want/need of letting go (of anything) a masked craving?
So to want let go of craving is to crave.
Yes, the mind is quite ingenious. ^__^

GuyC

Guyc, but isn't the want/need of letting go (of anything) a masked craving?
So to want let go of craving is to crave.
Yes, the mind is quite ingenious. ^__^

The unenlightened mind is ingenious or is it deluded? ^__^

But yeah...I agree.

being

The unenlightened mind is ingenious or is it deluded? ^__^

Ingeniously deluded, I would say.

GuyC

The unenlightened mind is ingenious or is it deluded? ^__^

Ingeniously deluded, I would say.

hehe, okay, you win.

maarten

Hi GuyC,

I have seen the desire to let go phrased as 'the ego trying to get rid of the ego'. I agree with pegembara.

GuyC

I have seen the desire to let go phrased as 'the ego trying to get rid of the ego'.

Ah, good choice of words. It is like trying to eat your own head! :sawed:

andyZ

Yes, good post. In Zen there's shikantaza, where you just observe your thoughts when they arise. No forcing them out, no clinging to them, just observing.

DairyLama

We want to make the mind still but it won't be still. This is practicing out of desire, but we don't realize it. We have the desire for calm.

But isn't the desire for a calm mind a wholesome desire? And isn't calming the mind actually a by-product of concentrating the mind?

P

aMatt

But isn't the desire for a calm mind a wholesome desire? And isn't calming the mind actually a by-product of concentrating the mind?

Seems fair to say. I think though, this speaks of the tension that arises quite naturally when we try to make things that appear something other than what they appear to be. So, we don't try to "still" an agitated mind... that's like putting out fire with gasoline. We "observe" and the agitation subsides. Its a pretty important distinction.

andyZ

But isn't the desire for a calm mind a wholesome desire? P

I think Ajahn Chah is talking about more advanced stages of practice after you achieve some calmness of mind.

Sabre

"It's necessary that we let go of ourselves and it can't be done, not by anything we call doing, acting, willing or even accepting". - Alan Watts

Sabre

We want to make the mind still but it won't be still. This is practicing out of desire, but we don't realize it. We have the desire for calm.

But isn't the desire for a calm mind a wholesome desire? And isn't calming the mind actually a by-product of concentrating the mind?

P

You can get a thoughtless mind by concentrating with force or will, but that won't get you deep. You will get to a certain level in meditation that way, but it won't help you. You really have to let go or you won't get deep.

being

I had this thought or insight or whatever you wanna call it arise in my last meditation session:
That there is actually no acceptance. There is only the mind fighting what is (or not). Who or what am I to accept anything? What does it really mean to accept? It's not like life stops happening when this mind does not accept (fights, what is). To say that one has to accept, kinda refers to, that there is someone who can accept what's happening.

Life/everything happens regardless of if the mind fights against what is or not.

Zayl

You just need to learn how to accept things as they come and go. If your mind is calm, then it is calm... you cannot force it. Do not be like a stone pillar before the storm, rather, be like a stalk of grass blowing in the wind.

maarten

Hi being, I can imagine resistance happening (which means: not accepting), and I can image the subsiding of resistance (which means that we still do not completely accept), but once resistance has gone, there is no problem anymore, nothing that needs acceptance, and so there is no acceptance happening.

being

Hi being, I can imagine resistance happening (which means: not accepting), and I can image the subsiding of resistance (which means that we still do not completely accept), but once resistance has gone, there is no problem anymore, nothing that needs acceptance, and so there is no acceptance happening.

Yes. From this understanding we can clearly deduce, that there is no such separate action as acceptance - accepting is not something we can do.

Or we could also say that acceptance in actuality is just the absence of resistance.

Maybe it's only me, but I used to think that accepting is some separate action we can 'do'. Never really fully comprehending, how. Now I understand, why.

Epicurus

^ so, do we CONSCIOUSLY resist things? That's the real question. Because if it's subconscious, how much power do we really have?...

being

^ so, do we CONSCIOUSLY resist things? That's the real question. Because if it's subconscious, how much power do we really have?...

I believe it's mostly subconscious. And I also believe that is the reason we meditate... to really _see_, what's going on deep inside our minds.
As far as I know, it's actually even scientifically proven, that we can consciously 'connect' with our subconscious mind in meditative states.

Yacababy

My personal take on it is sort of fine tuning our subconscious. Maybe I am wrong. There was a thread on here about not wanting. The reply was most about wanting to not want and how that is a want or craving in it's self. I have been fortunate or maybe I just clicked with me... I just stopped. I see things that are interesting and admire them but I just don't WANT or crave them. I say " oh that's cool" and be on my way... Maybe I am way off base.. I AM a newbie I am simply referring to Thich Nhat Hahn on this. Something I would not use as a "nutriment" to the " seeds" within me I try to avoid. Like rich fried foods, violent games and emotions such as hate and jealousy. I have begun to do so by implanting the idea of wholesome in my conscious mind and have let it seep into my subconscious. This works for me. I am sure there are many other wonderful methods and angles to look at it with.
With love, Jen

maarten

I've recently become surprised how often an emotion triggers an I-story that goes way beyond the original emotion. If there is jealousy coming up, and I do no more than recognize it as being jealousy (without analyzing it further, without playing the story behind it in my mind, and getting all worked up), the emotion can literally be gone in a few seconds. If you do not buy into the I-story, there is no "I" that will keep this story alive. I suppose it depends on the case: sometimes an emotion ('i crave letting go') really indicates a problem that we must see into (like asking yourself what you are holding back), but sometimes it's just a consequence of being identified with ego, and then it's better to relax and connect with the sensation of inner peace.