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how fully do you commit yourself?

edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
How fully do you commit yourself to your practice? For me I usually like to try to commit myself fully, but every now and then i'll slip and do something unskillful. I realize it's not really a big deal, I mean it's not like I do anything particularly bad or anything like that, but I get kind of frustrated when I slip up. Basically i'm holding myself to a really high standard and occasionally I kinda say fuck it and do something that is unskillful. Afterwards I feel bad. But i'm trying to decide how fully I want to commit myself. Lately i've been making those unskillful actions rarer and rarer, but i'm still not completely sure whether I really do want to try to act skillfully 100% of the time or if I want to incoorporate buddhism into my life while still living a more normal, forgiving life.

Comments

  • edited December 2010
    What will manifest will manifest. I was looking for something from Ajahn Chah to quote, this is the best I can come up with in a such short time.

    "The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice.

    Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing.

    Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this-just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle.

    Why not give it a try? Do you dare?"

    "A Still Forest Pool" by Ajahn Chah *Please make the time to read this book*

    I would recommend you aspire to the insight of not-self. It is something obtainable. Grow the desire, feed the mystery and intrigue, it is in your capacity!

    With Love,
    - G

    PS: I hope one day you'll come back and repost in this thread about the irony of those last statements.
  • edited December 2010
    I'm waiting to be a 81 year old widower and have nothing else to lose to commit to enlightenment.


    Until then I'll use buddhist teachers as a tool to be happier. I don't live my life in service of the dharma. The dharma lives in service of me.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I would recommend you aspire to the insight of not-self. It is something obtainable. Grow the desire, feed the mystery and intrigue, it is in your capacity!

    If I'm not mistaken, Gautama never posited something called the "not-self." He did suggest that there was no abiding self.

    The trouble with imagining or aspiring to a "not self" is that it simply enhances the notion of "self" (you can't get rid of something you haven't got in the first place and imagining you've got a self is the central reason people give Buddhist practice a try).
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited December 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    How fully do you commit yourself to your practice? For me I usually like to try to commit myself fully, but every now and then i'll slip and do something unskillful. I realize it's not really a big deal, I mean it's not like I do anything particularly bad or anything like that, but I get kind of frustrated when I slip up. Basically i'm holding myself to a really high standard and occasionally I kinda say fuck it and do something that is unskillful. Afterwards I feel bad. But i'm trying to decide how fully I want to commit myself. Lately i've been making those unskillful actions rarer and rarer, but i'm still not completely sure whether I really do want to try to act skillfully 100% of the time or if I want to incoorporate buddhism into my life while still living a more normal, forgiving life.

    I have heard that a constant (physical) meditation practice is helpful. No big deal but just some incorporation. FWIW.
  • edited December 2010
    genkaku wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken, Gautama never posited something called the "not-self."

    Anatta is more like a "perspective".
    genkaku wrote: »
    He did suggest that there was no abiding self.

    This is correct, but there is more to it than this. There is no self to be found in the aggregates of conscious experience.

    genkaku wrote: »
    The trouble with imagining or aspiring to a "not self" is that it simply enhances the notion of "self" (you can't get rid of something you haven't got in the first place and imagining you've got a self is the central reason people give Buddhist practice a try).

    I agree and disagree. One of the causes of "volitional" human action is our underlying drive system. This drive system is often simplified into two polls, a push and a pull. Any "mind-object", to use the Buddhist vernacular, can get charged with a push, a pull, both, or neither. This is related to why there is a mindfulness of pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. Typically pulling arises around pleasant objects, and can have their pull strengthened by contemplating their pleasant attributes or results.

    Now, not all pulls strengthen the sense of self. That being said, very strong push/pulls can strengthen or even overwhelm consciousness with a sense of self, yet EXTREME push/pulls can completely dissolve a sense of self. Near death experiences are a good case study. On the far end you have experiences where people describe completely dissolving. Right below that is where the projection of self becomes indiscriminate, one might describe completely merging with their surroundings. With out of body experiences the perception of an independent consciousness is retained, but association with the body, except for the abstract concept of "that's my body", is severed. Even if sensations can still be felt and recognized they are perceived as external.
  • edited December 2010
    Oops! I almost forgot, the second sermon the Buddha gave was on anatta. So here it is!
    The Not-self Characteristic (Anatta-lakkhana-sutta)

    Thus I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Benares, in the Deer Park at Isipatana (the Resort of Seers). There he addressed the bhikkhus of the group of five: "Bhikkhus." — "Venerable sir," they replied. The Blessed One said this.

    "Bhikkhus, form is not-self. Were form self, then this form would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of form: 'Let my form be thus, let my form be not thus.' And since form is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of form: 'Let my form be thus, let my form be not thus.'

    "Bhikkhus, feeling is not-self...

    "Bhikkhus, perception is not-self...

    "Bhikkhus, determinations are not-self...

    "Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.' And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'

    "Bhikkhus, how do you conceive it: is form permanent or impermanent?" — "Impermanent, venerable Sir." — "Now is what is impermanent painful or pleasant?" — "Painful, venerable Sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."

    "Is feeling permanent or impermanent?...

    "Is perception permanent or impermanent?...

    "Are determinations permanent or impermanent?...

    "Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?" — "Impermanent, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent pleasant or painful?" — "Painful, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."

    "So, bhikkhus any kind of form whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near, must with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not myself.'

    "Any kind of feeling whatever...

    "Any kind of perception whatever...

    "Any kind of determination whatever...

    "Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'

    "Bhikkhus, when a noble follower who has heard (the truth) sees thus, he finds estrangement in form, he finds estrangement in feeling, he finds estrangement in perception, he finds estrangement in determinations, he finds estrangement in consciousness.

    "When he finds estrangement, passion fades out. With the fading of passion, he is liberated. When liberated, there is knowledge that he is liberated. He understands: 'Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived out, what can be done is done, of this there is no more beyond.'"

    That is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were glad, and they approved his words.

    Now during this utterance, the hearts of the bhikkhus of the group of five were liberated from taints through clinging no more.

    — SN 22.59

    From "Three Cardinal Discourses of the Buddha" translated by Ñanamoli Thera
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I think it's a fine line between truly committing yourself to your practice and adopting practice as yet another ego-inspired 'thing' to cling to. I'm not sure I'd know for myself where the difference was. What I try to do is meditate every day (occasionally I don't, and I try not to beat myself up about it), and the rest of the day just try to do what is right, think about what I'm going to say before it comes out of my mouth, think about what I'm going to do before I do it, and generally try, to the best of my worldly ability, to follow the precepts. Beyond that, at this point in my life, anything else would probably be beyond my abilities and understanding.
  • JoshuaJoshua Veteran
    edited December 2010
    GeminiVI wrote: »
    What will manifest will manifest. I was looking for something from Ajahn Chah to quote, this is the best I can come up with in a such short time.

    "The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice.

    Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing.

    Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this-just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle.

    Why not give it a try? Do you dare?"

    "A Still Forest Pool" by Ajahn Chah *Please make the time to read this book*

    I would recommend you aspire to the insight of not-self. It is something obtainable. Grow the desire, feed the mystery and intrigue, it is in your capacity!

    With Love,
    - G

    PS: I hope one day you'll come back and repost in this thread about the irony of those last statements.

    Wow, if I'm not mistaken that sounds like wu wei.
  • JakbobJakbob Explorer
    edited December 2010
    GeminiVI wrote: »
    What will manifest will manifest. I was looking for something from Ajahn Chah to quote, this is the best I can come up with in a such short time.

    "The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice.

    Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing.

    Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this-just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle.

    Why not give it a try? Do you dare?"

    "A Still Forest Pool" by Ajahn Chah *Please make the time to read this book*

    I would recommend you aspire to the insight of not-self. It is something obtainable. Grow the desire, feed the mystery and intrigue, it is in your capacity!

    With Love,
    - G

    PS: I hope one day you'll come back and repost in this thread about the irony of those last statements.

    Those are very nice quotes you have shown us and have given me some great insight. Thank you for sharing :).
  • edited December 2010
    valois wrote: »
    Wow, if I'm not mistaken that sounds like wu wei.

    I had never heard of wu wei before, but after reading this yes, it is similar to wu wei.

    I would say the Buddhist practice has deeper insight and goes beyond "action without action". You may be interested in checking out Shinzen Young.
  • edited December 2010
    GeminiVI wrote: »
    I had never heard of wu wei before, but after reading this yes, it is similar to wu wei.

    I would say the Buddhist practice has deeper insight and goes beyond "action without action". You may be interested in checking out Shinzen Young.
    The Master does nothing,
    yet he leaves nothing undone.
    The ordinary man is always doing things,
    yet many more are left to be done.
    38


    (Those who) possessed in the highest degree those attributes did nothing (with a purpose), and had no need to do anything. (Those who) possessed them in a lower degree were (always) doing, and had need to be so doing.
    38
    WU [mu] {early forms showed a person dancing (in a forest?)} and {this is a pictogram of a female monkey (mind?)} WEI
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