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How to Take Refuge Without a Sangha
For those who don't live near a sangha, is there a way to take refuge in the Triple Gems? Can one "take refuge in the sangha" if there is no physical sangha? If so, how would that work? Sangha-less refuge-takers, I welcome you to share your experience. :om:
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Another question: one doesn't need to take the refuge vow with a teacher? Can one do it on one's own at home?
I did.
I took refuge back in 2000 for the first time, in my own home. At that time, I had not decided what Tradition I wanted to follow.
I prepared a makeshift altar, waited until I was at home, on my own (only for some peace and quiet, no interruptions and plenty of time) and I created a ceremony of my own.
I followed the procedure as outlined in the attached document, and recited everything just as you see it there.
I lit incense and candles, and took my time.
it was absolutely perfect, legitimate and felt absolutely right.
I still have all the help, support and guidance from this Sangha, the other online Sangha I belong to, and now, a local temple.
But before I moved to near a temple, online is all I had.
And it was totally acceptable.
I hope that helps.
in the end if you see that all the suffering and problems are just teachers in disguise. then everything is helping you on the path.
It's just your confidence that all of life's answers can be found through having faith that the Buddha was fully enlightened, that his teachings (Dharma) represent reality and can lead you to see it for yourself, and the monks that have faithfully carried forth his teachings (as well as monks and lay followers that have realized the Dharma for themselves, so that enlightenment is possible for anyone).
And Sukhita got an answer to her/his question about whether she's done it right by bringing the monastic order as custodian of the dharma into it. Turns out she's spot-on.
In the meantime, another question came up on another thread. Is taking refuge a requirement for being considered a Buddhist?
I don't think there are any requirements to "be" a Buddhist. I think any and all requirements we could speak of are for the purpose of enlightenment, and "Buddhist" is just a label.
Two "Buddhists" could have completely different perspectives on what a Buddhist is, act in completely different ways, perhaps even one seeking enlightenment and one doing anything but that.
"I take refugee in Budha, I take refugee in Dharma, I take refugee in Sangha"
3 times... in sanskrit/pali (it sounds better).
the sangha is any buddhist (anyone who had taken refugee in the three jewels);
so when/if I met one we can help each other.
The Sangha are spiritual descents of the Buddha. You do need to take refuge under the guidance of proper monastics. Just like having heart surgeries, you would not want someone who is unqualified to be wielding the blade. For something as important as taking refuge, you NEED professionals to get you through it. Or else there is no reason for anyone to leave home and become a monk...
Everyone on here are all deluded, trying to take refuge with your own triple gem is of no help at our stage of realisation. It's like repeating other people's university thesis without understanding it.
There is absolutely no need or obligation to proceed as you describe.
Do some research before making such sweeping assertions.
Many schools of Buddhism encourage laypeople to take refuge, whether in a temple, with teachers, or on their own.
You may have an opinion, but please don't dare to tell people they're deluded simply because you disagree with their PoVs'.
Got it?
To me, making refuge means something very different than it seems to, to you. For example, "To the Buddha I go for refuge. To the Dhamma I go for refuge. To the Sangha I go for refuge." I have been taught that "going for refuge" can mean the following: I go to the teachings of Buddha. I read the Dhamma. If I have a question I seek help from monks -- but that help might be obtained by talking to a monk, reading a book or essay by a monk, or watching a video chat by a monk. After all, at least in Thailand, what women can do at a temple is very restricted, yet they can visit and chat with a monk...but to be honest, after visiting well over a thousand temples while living in and visiting Thailand, there were very few times I saw women being counseled by monks.
One time in Bangkok I talked with a monk about the difficulty of participating in activities at a temple when in America because there are so few temples. He said (paraphrased) "Look around at all you see here at this temple. The buildings. The monks. Even the statue of Buddha. You do not need any of these things to be a Buddhist. Everything you need to be a Buddhist is here [and he pointed to my head]. Easy to learn about Buddhism; buy a book. Difficult to learn about yourself."
If Monastics don't encourage you to take the refuge properly then they are making concessions for you because of your level of acceptance at the time.
Frankly, just like wanting to get a degree on engineering, I'd take the university course which ensures a recognized degree at the end of it.
But who must an aspiring Buddhist try to impress such that that he must take refuge through some officially recognized organization? Is this really about having a certificate that we can put on a wall?
The biggest delusion is that "I know it all", even when it comes to the practice and teachings of someone who discovered the ultimate truth.
If you do things to fit your own views or try to impress others. Then even taking the refuge won't help you.
Monastics have renounced the household life and made propagating the Dharma their life's mission for everybody else's sake. Hence I think it's better to follow professional opinions.
First, we shouldn't confuse the act of taking refuge with the act of studying the teachings. Someone could take refuge on his own, yet still seek out help from teachers.
Second, I think a lay practitioner/teacher would have at least as much to teach a lay person as a monastic would. Arguably they could teach more: If I had a question regarding maintaining equanimity while working at an unpleasant job and dealing with an unruly adolescent child, I would definitely be interested in the advice from a lay teacher.
People take refuge because they would like to know.
I think you're confusing being a devoted, applied and studious monastic with a person following a lay life.
@NOTaGangsta, I say again:
You are mistaken if you believe that taking refuge can only properly be considered "valid" or worthy, if done with a teacher.
There is no regulation, impediment or prohibition against anyone doing it for themselves, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, the intention is no less valid, worthy or authentic for it.
It is completely proper and entirely acceptable for those wishing to, to take refuge under their own volition.
Some traditions may recommend doing so with a teacher. But it is not compulsory, obligatory or any more or less valid for that.
I took Refuge for myself, in 2000, then subsequently took Refuge again, at a temple, with many others, in 2008.
The monks there confirmed to me that what I was doing was merely reaffirming, not authenticating or validating my previous devotion of 2002.
I'm afraid I'd rather take their words, against yours, given that they were ordained teachers....
And I suppose you think that in a country where freedom of religion is not allowed, you wouldn't be able to become a Buddhist?
amazing stuff
I think some people want to make things like the Buddhist precepts and the Noble Eightfold Path and the Triple Gem into COMMANDMENTS.
how are you going to respond to what is in front of you? your teachers are everywhere. i never had a sangha, but now i realized everything and everyone is part of my sangha. even those who don't appear to be on the path.
don't ever limit your learning.
OK, according to wikipedia, it's "commonly used to refer to Buddhist or Jain groups". According to accesstoinsight, the original meaning was an assembly of ordained monks or nuns, or an assembly of noble followers of the dharma ("ariya sangha"). The TV, my mailman, the cashier at the store, are not part of a sangha, at least not the type we take refuge in. That doesn't mean they can't be our teachers; everyone potentially is a teacher. But not everyone is a sangha member.
I think the problem comes that just because one is a Buddhist monk, that does not mean they are truly knowledgeable about Buddhism or are wise enough themselves to interpret the Dhamma. There are certainly "crooked" monks in Thailand, where I lived for a while, and I've certainly met Buddhist monks who were not very knowledgeable.
So, if you "take refuge" with a monk who is teaching the wrong thing, then where are you?
learn to filter the bullshit and take what you need from people. only you know what you need to learn and only you can absorb that you want to learn. it's all in your hands. you can learn a lot from other people.
sangha is just a word and just like all words they have different meanings/associations.
if you have no sangha through "buddhism" then make everyone part of your sangha. it's no "accident" that you don't have a sangha. take refuge in yourself and only yourself.
I guess it's the internet, where everyone assumes what's good for them without guidance. Treating Buddhism like philosphy 101 probably feels like fun, but if you believe in Karma, then it's probably not a good idea.
But I am not going to keep silent when posters harms themselves and others by slandering the Buddha's words or making suggestions that encourages people to skip steps within the practice when no one have any idea what levels they are at.
As to the matter of whether or not one needs to take the refuge vow by a monk, the question comes to mind: what exactly is the purpose of taking refuge? If it's a commitment to oneself, then one could take it alone, at home. But if it's a commitment to a community, and if one needs a qualified witness to this important vow, maybe the people in favor of taking the vow by a monk (or any qualified teacher? including a lay teacher?) have a point. :-/ :scratch:
If you connect to the mandala of enlightenment and the members do not call themselves a sangha my arguments would not apply to that person.
I can see the other side too. But I think its based not only on logic. But the fear that one's practice is inadequate. Strictly from fear alone doesn't mean that it is in fact adequate to reach liberation (rapidly).
But actually, something else popped into my head as I wrote this. ASIDE FROM the Dhamma, how exactly would one go to the Buddha for refuge. That's why I think it is more a parable, rather than necessarily going to be with Buddha or the Sangha.
"...the Dharma is the refuge for persons of the Solitary Realizer vehicle and those who are interested in the works of Dharma. They take refuge in the Dharma the supreme freedom from all attachments."
"If this cannot be arranged. [in front of master] then the disciple should visualize the Three Jewels in space and mentally do prostrations and make offerings. The disciple chants......"Please hear me, all Buddhas and bodhisattvas. Please here me masters. My name is ------ From theis time until I achieve enlightenment I take refuge in all the Buddhas, teh supreme beings among two leggeds. I take refuge in the Dharma, the supreme freedom from all atachments. I take refuge in teh Sangha, the most excellent of al communites." This is repeated three times from the heart"
In my opinion improvise if you will.
"Training. There are three general trainings. a) The rtrhee general traingings constsist of making offerings to the Triple Jewel, even offering whatever one eats ro drinks; not forsaking the Triple Jewel even at risk of one's life or for great rewards; and repeatedly recollecting the qualities of the Triple Jewel. b) The three particular trainings are: having taken refuge int he Buddha one should not take refuge in other deities....Having taken refuge in the Dharma, one should not harm other sentient beings....Having taken refuge in the sangha one should not rely on heretics. c_) The three common trainings are to respect the Buddha Jewel in every form, even a piece of a tsatsa; to respect the foundation of the Dharma Jewel, the books and texts of precious Dharma, even one syllable; and to respect the precious Sangha Jewel, the dress of Buddha even a patch of yellow cloth.
Benefitial Effects: one enters the buddhist path, refuge becomes the foundation for all other precepts, refuge becomes a cause for purification of all negative karmas accumulated earlier, one cannot be any of the human or non-human obstacles, one accomplishes all that one wishes, one achieves the great cause of merit, one will not fall into the lower realms, and one achieves perfect enlightenment."
"There are seven ways to take the precepts: bhikshu, bhikshuni, shiksamana, shramanera, shramanerika, upasaka, and upasika."
"Tjere are tjree as[ets to the precepts A) If one accepts these seven types merely from a desire to have happiness of the three realms, then this is morality with a vested interest. b) If one takes these precepts in order to completely free oneself from all sufferng, it is the morality associated with the Hearer's renunciation. c) If one accepts them with an attide of achieving the great enlightenment, it is the morality of the bodhisattvas precepts." "tjos dosco[;ome os mecessaru tp ci;tovate bodhicitta."