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Thanks, if I die I guess I will just have a rebirth anyway... I have been mixing high doses of benzos and alcohol nearly every day for the past 6 months, maybe I should stop that mixture seeing as people say it is pretty damn dangerous. metta people
From my first post: "I don't do drugs and they will definitely interfere to some extent." They do only interfere to a certain extent. My awareness practice was very sincere although I was an alcoholic. As I said awareness practice helps you quit, (avoid) become even more suffering through foolishness, get a better rebirth, and I will add that it adds an island of beauty in a sad life.
"Just reading the post I highlighted earlier, it sounded like you were saying that taking drugs can be an aid to a persons Buddhist practice and could even in theory lead to insight." I do not know how you understood that meaning. That is not what I intended. I also said drugs were a hindrance, but that an awareness practice was not mutually exclusive with drugs. Do you get that?
I am sorry that you have had some losses. I have found my ex on the floor 3 times not breathing and called the fire department. I know it is hard.
To teenagers, drugs will kick your ass. It is no joke. I experimented with alcohol and in college my social experiences were less than fullfilling because I was barely conscious to remember them.
Ok Jeffrey, I am sorry if I misunderstood your posts. Please accept my apologies.
Drugs are a subject that a lot of people see as fun and can do no harm, but to the people who are addicts and their families, this could not be further from the truth. I just wanted to get this point across.
Tom a human life is a rare possibility. The idea that you cannot get off drugs is just negative thinking. There is no substance to it in reality. Emptiness means potential. Form is emptiness and emptiness is form. You don't have control over your cravings but you choose how to care for yourself and whether to listen to them.
I neve said drugs CAN'T be bad. I said they are not always bad. Shooting heroine is not the same as smoking a joint. Period.
It's not that people should not take drugs. People should have FREEDOM and INFORMATION. It's up to them to decide.
I can't think of much reasons why anyone should do heroine. Heroine is immensely more destructive than other drugs. But I can think of a couple of why one might smoke a joint (anxiety, pain relief) for example. So a war against drugs, putting them all into the same bowl is not wise. A war against anything is unwise. It's not making war you are gonna get peace.
Yes Epicurus, I mentioned this a while ago in this thread that not all drugs should be lumped into one category. Often straight laced people hear the word 'drugs' and think they are all the same, that they are all taken by thieving addicts in squats. However, if you give people the right to shoot up heroin or smoke crack, you watch the crime rate rise and more problems arise. I am with you that some drugs can help, but every drug has a side affect, FACT. I do not agree with anti depressants or anti anxiety drugs as they are merely covering up an under lying problem.
A human life is a rare possibility? So are you a hindu? I thought buddhists believed in rebirth and not reincarnation... I have no understanding of emptiness apart from everything is empty But I do not understand exactly how this is or realise it. I do however realise I do not have control over my cravings, that is a fact if life just as not having control over the weather.
Yeah a human life is very precious. A teacher said a human life is as rare as if there was a sea turtle swimming in the ocean and just by chance there was a curled rope hanging down. The preciousness of human life is so rare that it is as unlikely that the turtle would surface in that exact spot out of the whole ocean and put its neck in the curl.
really. hmm. I guess every teacher has a slightly different slant on things. Ajahn Brahm for example has contradicted a few things his teacher Ajahn Chah taught him. I have heard monks speak of rebirth as human only, but I have also heard the same monk say that one should not take anybodies word for truth. You need to find the truth for yourself. So for rebirth, we have to wait... lol Some sooner than later :P
Yeah nobody really knows. What do you think of this for people who are young and thinking about experimenting? I think people initially experiment to bond with friends who are also trying things. This is the up side. And we have to admit there is an up side because no one will believe you if you lie or don't know. But the downside and I think one of the strongest arguments against drugs is that your addiction gets messy and it can get in the way of friendships. What do you think about that?
Well, experimenting. People experiment for different reasons I think. Maybe I personally experimented as I have something deep within that causes me pain. Other may experiment through sheer curiosity, (that is what I always use to say back when I was in my teens, its me being curious). It does depend a lot on the social group you hang around with, young people are easily influenced. I remember being 12 and saying I would never take drugs. Then I tried weed. I then went on to say I would never take pills. I was talking to 2 guys that were 2 years above me in school, they had some ecstasy pills and I thought they were crazy. 2 years later bam, 4 year ecstasy binge. If you have an addictive personality, I think one should be very cautious with experimenting. One should do research before putting a drug into their body and not be ignorant to the situation. Drugs can cause conflicts in social groups as they are like currency, sometimes they have more power than money.
Sorry, but I cannot listen to it right now. I am pretty unstable mentally and vulnerable. Music is one thing that can really set a tone of mood within me. You said this song reminded you of drug use when your ex ...? your ex what exactly if I may ask
I haven't slept. Its nearly 9am, I am just trying to think what the hell to do. Go back home and get therapy, see a doctor etc, or try and taper myself again. You won't set me off dont worry. I am keeping myself occupied
I see a lot of misconceptions about drugs in this thread.
1.) Decriminalizing drugs makes drug use go down. This is a fact. It has been observed in Portugal, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic already, to name three examples.
2.) Decriminalizing drugs causes crime rates to go down. Think of Prohibition: when something is on the black market, it is surrounded by crime. But no one is forming gangs and killing people over alcohol or tobacco today, because they're not illegal.
3.) Not all drugs are addictive. Not all drugs are bad for your health. LSD, magic mushrooms, cannabis, and ketamine are four examples of illegal drugs that are not addictive or bad for you.
Drugs can hurt you, or kill you, or make you become addicted... but that doesn't mean we should lie about them, or lump them all together.
Some people think it just applies to alcohol but a actual translation does not suggest that. If it did, then what need is there for "Pamadatthana"?
Pamadatthana is telling us that the fermented drinks destroy mindfulness.
I meant to add this to my previous post, but was unable to:
Let me state that drug use has ruined the lives of many of my friends, and the smartest thing to do is stay away. I used to use them myself, but after getting robbed at gunpoint and wasting $10,000 I realized what I was doing and have since managed to be completely clean. I'm much happier. But I believe it should be someone's decision, and had I been using different drugs I think I wouldn't have been in that situation.
''2.) Decriminalizing drugs causes crime rates to go down. Think of Prohibition: when something is on the black market, it is surrounded by crime. But no one is forming gangs and killing people over alcohol or tobacco today, because they're not illegal. ''
That is because heroin and crack/cocaine act different upon on your brain chemically wise. They change the way you act and make you steal from even your friends. Yes alcohol can be very addictive, and people have been known to steal for alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant, heroin an opiate and crack/cocaine a stimulant.
''3.) Not all drugs are addictive. Not all drugs are bad for your health. LSD, magic mushrooms, cannabis, and ketamine are four examples of illegal drugs that are not addictive or bad for you. ''
The wrong mushrooms are deadly or harmful, smoking anything is harmful, LSD CAN cause mental damage if used frequently and over a long period of time. Also it is known to be able to cause neurological damage. Ketamine is also harmful, if abused for a long period of time, you can lose all bladder control and even pass crystals through your urine. Something very painful. I know someone who was hopsitalized from ketamine, I also know somebody who had a friend who died from a ketamine overdose. It slows down your breathing and heart rate and he eventually stopped breathing all together.
''1.) Decriminalizing drugs makes drug use go down. This is a fact. It has been observed in Portugal, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic already, to name three examples. ''
is that just cannabis or legalizing heroin and crack as well?
That is because heroin and crack/cocaine act different upon on your brain chemically wise. They change the way you act and make you steal from even your friends.
That's only partly why. The crime rate is because those drugs are black market commodities, as happened with alcohol - when you can make $10,000 in a single transaction, and law enforcement and regulation are not options, violence is bound to follow.
When only criminals have a commodity, it won't be as safe and easy to purchase as if it were for sale at your local grocery. Moreover, the fact that these drugs are black market means the price shoots way up, so addicts often cannot afford their habit without stealing. If these drugs were for sale openly and cheaply, their societal cost wouldn't be nearly so high.
Heroin is a good example of this. By itself, pure heroin is not harmful to the body. It is extremely addictive, but not toxic. [http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cu4.html ] But when heroin is illegal, some consequences follow:
1.) Addicts must deal with gangs and the criminal element in order to obtain it. This is one of the main causes of death, along with #4. [http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/darke2.cfm ]
2.) The price shoots through the roof, so addicts can't afford enough. They then either steal, or
3.) use needles, which IS extremely bad for you... in large part because
These are the main causes of death and injury among heroin users, and they are all directly traceable to the fact that we throw users in jail instead of simply educating them then letting them do as they wish with their own lives.
The wrong mushrooms are deadly or harmful
Yes, but we're talking about the right kind of mushrooms.
smoking anything is harmful
That's true, but I didn't say you had to smoke the cannabis.
LSD CAN cause mental damage if used frequently and over a long period of time. Also it is known to be able to cause neurological damage.
I am not aware of any studies showing that LSD can cause mental damage, but I am not prepared to rule it out. It seems reasonable to me that someone who used a lot of LSD might have mental issues if not prepared for it.
However, I am fairly certain LSD cannot cause neurological damage.
Ketamine is also harmful, if abused for a long period of time, you can lose all bladder control and even pass crystals through your urine.
I wasn't aware of that! But you do say abused. Ketamine is often used as a children's anesthetic, so it cannot be too harmful if used correctly.
is that just cannabis or legalizing heroin and crack as well?
That's crack and heroin as well, except in the Netherlands.
So if the government legalized drugs, crime rates would drop, police would have more time on their hands, the government could tax the hell out of it all, so why aren't the UK, USA EU etc legalizing drugs?
I have researched LSD and if you abuse it it can cause neurological damage. However, it is not known if it is permanent.
The thing is, when you legalize a drug, subconsciously many people will consider it socially accepted and dabble in it, maybe become addicted and lead to abuse. Maybe I have answered my first question to this post
So if the government legalized drugs, crime rates would drop, police would have more time on their hands, the government could tax the hell out of it all, so why aren't the UK, USA EU etc legalizing drugs?
I wonder the same thing a lot. I think the reason you mention at the end of your post is a big part of it. There's a reasonable fear that decriminalizing a drug sends the message that it's a good idea to use that drug. But I think this can easily be counteracted: no one thinks it's a good idea to use cigarettes, for instance. Although people still get hooked, it's becoming less and less common.
In the U.S., the drug war is getting really crazy. In Texas, where I live, they are actually releasing rapists and murderers early to make room for all the pot smokers!
I'm hoping that the examples of Portugal and the Czech Republic will spur a change in the way we deal with drug users. In the U.K., a panel of scientists and advisers were requested to gauge how harmful drugs really are. They recommended legalizing a good many drugs and claimed alcohol was worse than almost any other... and now they're in danger of losing their jobs! That's how deep the prejudice against drug use runs.
I am originally from the UK and in fact the scientist that first spoke out that MDMA (ecstasy) is in fact less harmful than horse riding got fired. 15 people die a year from ecstasy in the UK, yet it still ruins lives trust me.
If you legalize drugs, I think it is obvious it will at least encourage more people to experiment. If they can go to the local shop and buy some heroin or some ecstasy on a whim, just out of curiosity, they may become addicted. You cannot become physically addicted to ecstasy, but you can mentally.
I am aware of the situation in mexico, that is totally crazy, but your situation in texas is also pretty insane. They are seriously letting murderers out early to make room for pot smokers? In the UK you get 15 years for murder, if your a good boy/girl, you get half that normally.
At the end of the day, drugs have been used and abused for many many years, and they will continue to do so. People need to be educated properly and not told 'this is bad' because young people want to be bad a lot of the time.
I'm sick of mindless anti-drug propaganda to be honest. Buddhism is about impartially evaluating things.
Your NEVER going to not encounter that in Buddhism. Buddhism is about following the precepts too. There are always going to be many people that say recreational drugs are a precepts violation, therefore never beneficial, and that is never going to stop.
I'm explaining why pamādaṭṭhānā might be included. The translation I have read for Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā is "fermented and intoxicating drinks that destroy mindfulness." Pamādaṭṭhānā is thus referring to the drinks, not anything.
I've also had experiences with drugs. I think the whole story is that, for most people, drugs showed them what it is like to suffer and becoming someone they don't want to be. Hence It helped to give you the wisdom of wanting to change. After that, you know it's time to give it up because it's gotten you to where you want to be.
First of all let me say that all addictions are caused by adverse childhood experience. It is possible to do heroin and not get addicted because it is not the drug that cases the addiction.
Secondly, I used to think that life was what you made it but now I believe that one's life is ultimately what one perceives it to be. "I am the awareness in which all of this happens."
I was walking through a soccer field yesterday and I spotted an empty whisky bottle on the ground. My first thought was that someone wanted to change their perspective. Knowing the negative effects of alcohol, my second thought was that there are much better ways to change one's perspective.
I think that limited drug use can change the way a person views the world and that could be a positive thing - sort of like opening a door and looking into another room. All too often, the use turns into a regular thing and ends up stifling the user to the point of negating the advantage of opening the door.
It's not that people should not take drugs. People should have FREEDOM and INFORMATION. It's up to them to decide.
Well I am putting the argument that drug use can lead to suffering, to balance your argument that some drugs are fine. I believe my position has more sense to it than yours.
I will stop exchanging with you, as it is clear that you cannot understand or want to, the views I am putting across. I just hope that you do not have to go through any negative experiences related to drugs in your life, and I also hope that your children (if you have them or not, I obviously do not know) do not grow up to have the same attitude that you have towards drugs.
I see a lot of misconceptions about drugs in this thread.
1.) Decriminalizing drugs makes drug use go down. This is a fact. It has been observed in Portugal, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic already, to name three examples.
2.) Decriminalizing drugs causes crime rates to go down. Think of Prohibition: when something is on the black market, it is surrounded by crime. But no one is forming gangs and killing people over alcohol or tobacco today, because they're not illegal.
3.) Not all drugs are addictive. Not all drugs are bad for your health. LSD, magic mushrooms, cannabis, and ketamine are four examples of illegal drugs that are not addictive or bad for you.
Drugs can hurt you, or kill you, or make you become addicted... but that doesn't mean we should lie about them, or lump them all together.
Some people think it just applies to alcohol but a actual translation does not suggest that. If it did, then what need is there for "Pamadatthana"?
Pamadatthana is telling us that the fermented drinks destroy mindfulness.
Your misconception is that the decriminalization of drugs is something all anti drugs campaigners are against. This is not true, the main reason governments decriminalizing drugs to try and stop people taking drugs, which is what anti drugs campaigners want, and is also what those governments who criminalize drugs want.
And sorry trying to tell me that lsd is not bad for your health is ridiculous. I mean come on, was it good for the persons health who threw themself of a building thinking they could fly because they were on an acid trip ? and there are many cases similar to this due to lsd. As I have said one death due to drug use is one to many in my opinion.
You said "Drugs can hurt you, or kill you, or make you become addicted... but that doesn't mean we should lie about them, or lump them all together." Well practice what you preach then and stop trying to tell people that some drugs are fine. They might be fine for you, but for a lot of people they are not fine, they are the start of addictions, addictions that ruin life's.
You said "Pamadatthana is telling us that the fermented drinks destroy mindfulness."
Yes and also drugs since they also lead to moral carelessness
well those people who died from lsd were ignorant to what they were taking, and probably pretty stupid as well. It was their choice to take the drug, nobody forced it down their throat to my knowledge. But I am against drugs being a positive thing in general, they cover up things instead of resolving them. Saying that, I would still take a few drops of acid on my hand right now, would make a good end to the day
well those people who died from lsd were ignorant to what they were taking, and probably pretty stupid as well. It was their choice to take the drug, nobody forced it down their throat to my knowledge. But I am against drugs being a positive thing in general, they cover up things instead of resolving them.
You are right ThailandTom nobody did force them to take it, and your also right that they were probably ignorant to what they were taking, which is why I think its important to get the point across about the many negative effects that drugs can have on a person, you are also doing a good job explaining to people what negative effect drugs can have on a persons life. I just hope people can see this and decide for themself that drugs are not worth taking.
I'm explaining why pamādaṭṭhānā might be included. The translation I have read for Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā is "fermented and intoxicating drinks that destroy mindfulness." Pamādaṭṭhānā is thus referring to the drinks, not anything.
Can I see that translation? Who was the translator?
I'm explaining why pamādaṭṭhānā might be included. The translation I have read for Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā is "fermented and intoxicating drinks that destroy mindfulness." Pamādaṭṭhānā is thus referring to the drinks, not anything.
Can I see that translation? Who was the translator?
Yes you are right seeker242, it would be interesting to know where this source comes from, which states the fifth precept only applies to "fermented and intoxicating drinks"
thank you wondering seeker, that was what i was referring to. Seriously, drugs in the wrong hands lead to dark places like tonight for example, i nearly died. Because 2 nights ago I basically doubled my dose of benzos, tonight I suddenly was overcome with a major depression. I felt nothing apart from wanting to die. I spoke of nothing, I did nothing, I just wanted to die. I then cried for no reason, after eventually throwing my sandals in the sea and walking to the nearest clinic, which was closed. I eventually got back to my hotel where the three ladies who own it and are always sat out front sat me down. they are old skool rock chicks and understand, they basically put it to me that if i want to see 30 i have to stop. them my girlfriend returned after looking for me. Don't mess with these prescription drugs, They are very hard to overdose on, but they have the power to cause you to want to take your own life.
And sorry trying to tell me that lsd is not bad for your health is ridiculous. I mean come on, was it good for the persons health who threw themself of a building thinking they could fly because they were on an acid trip ? and there are many cases similar to this due to lsd. As I have said one death due to drug use is one to many in my opinion.
"One death due to car use is too many. Ban cars!"
The stories of people throwing themselves off buildings are mostly urban legends. I'm only aware of one documented incident, and even so there's doubt about whether the man really was dosed with LSD or not. That was also a case when he was dosed without his knowledge; if one is prepared, and has a "trip sitter", that will never happen.
Even if it happened all the time, I was referring to LSD's chemical effects upon the body. It causes no damage, is not toxic, and is almost impossible to overdose on.
Well practice what you preach then and stop trying to tell people that some drugs are fine. They might be fine for you, but for a lot of people they are not fine, they are the start of addictions, addictions that ruin life's.
Not all drugs are addictive. I simply don't agree that all drugs are bad. Do you ever drink a caffeinated drink... like tea? Do you ever take an aspirin or a Tylenol? Maybe an herbal tea with Valerian root to help you sleep? Or are all of these evil and bad, too?
Can I see that translation? Who was the translator?
I don't remember the author, but I've already posted a link to Wikipedia's translation. Your own translation says the same, to my mind, but you may interpret it differently.
And sorry trying to tell me that lsd is not bad for your health is ridiculous. I mean come on, was it good for the persons health who threw themself of a building thinking they could fly because they were on an acid trip ? and there are many cases similar to this due to lsd. As I have said one death due to drug use is one to many in my opinion.
"One death due to car use is too many. Ban cars!"
The stories of people throwing themselves off buildings are mostly urban legends. I'm only aware of one documented incident, and even so there's doubt about whether the man really was dosed with LSD or not. That was also a case when he was dosed without his knowledge; if one is prepared, and has a "trip sitter", that will never happen.
Even if it happened all the time, I was referring to LSD's chemical effects upon the body. It causes no damage, is not toxic, and is almost impossible to overdose on.
Not all drugs are addictive. I simply don't agree that all drugs are bad. Do you ever drink a caffeinated drink... like tea? Do you ever take an aspirin or a Tylenol? Maybe an herbal tea with Valerian root to help you sleep? Or are all of these evil and bad, too?
Well here are a couple of examples of cases where hallucinogenic drugs were taken, found with a simple google search (see below). So much for urban legend, I am sure the families of the people who are injured or killed because of drugs such as lsd, would tell you what they think about so called urban legends.
I never said all drugs were bad either, drugs which make it hard to think clearly, effect a persons ability to make rational decisions, are addictive and have no real benefit. These are bad drugs, you know like the one's your telling me are fine as long as your
"prepared and has a trip sitter".
And whether a drug is addictive or not depends on the person taking it. For some people it is addictive.
Lastly cars do not alter a persons state of mind or ability to make rational decisions. So unless the driver is under the influence of drugs, I think the "ban cars" debate is completely irrelevant and should be in a thread related to road safety not drugs.
thank you wondering seeker, that was what i was referring to. Seriously, drugs in the wrong hands lead to dark places like tonight for example, i nearly died. Because 2 nights ago I basically doubled my dose of benzos, tonight I suddenly was overcome with a major depression. I felt nothing apart from wanting to die. I spoke of nothing, I did nothing, I just wanted to die. I then cried for no reason, after eventually throwing my sandals in the sea and walking to the nearest clinic, which was closed.
I don't post much on the forum but I do read a lot & I've been following your posts for a while now, Tom. You are in my thoughts often. I really wish you all the best & I hope you do take the offer of getting help.
ThailandTom, just looking at the website that Wondering Seeker gave for the Thamkrabok Monastery detox treatment. Well it looks a really good place that can help you. I hope you do decide to go and if you do go I hope the treatment can have a lasting effect in helping you overcome your problems.
Great share Wondering Seeker, the Thamkrabok Monastery looks like it does excellent work.
Well here are a couple of examples of cases where hallucinogenic drugs were taken, found with a simple google search (see below). So much for urban legend, I am sure the families of the people who are injured or killed because of drugs such as lsd, would tell you what they think about so called urban legends.
From your first link: "A man who believed he could fly after he unwittingly ate food containing LSD..." Like I said, it was because he was unprepared and had no one watching him.
Your second link says the man might have been using salvia, and in any case, I never mentioned salvia, so that's irrelevant.
You should think about what these links reveal to you. Here is one injury related to LSD use. "In 2006, approximately 23 million persons aged 12 or older used LSD in their lifetime." [http://www.quora.com/How-many-Americans-have-tried-LSD ] So one person is injured, but 23 million people have used the drug. Even if a thousand people have died due to LSD, that's better odds than those you face every time you get in a car!
I never said all drugs were bad either
You said: "Well practice what you preach then and stop trying to tell people that some drugs are fine." So I guess you agree with me that some drugs are fine...?
drugs which make it hard to think clearly, effect a persons ability to make rational decisions, are addictive and have no real benefit. These are bad drugs, you know like the one's your telling me are fine as long as your
"prepared and has a trip sitter".
None of the drugs I listed are physically addictive. You also cannot say they have no real benefit, because that's up to the individual to judge. Many people say there is no benefit to Buddhism, but obviously we disagree here at NewBuddhist.com.
And whether a drug is addictive or not depends on the person taking it. For some people it is addictive.
That's true. I mean physically addictive when I say addictive. Anything - even hobbies like shopping - can be psychologically addictive.
Lastly cars do not alter a persons state of mind or ability to make rational decisions. So unless the driver is under the influence of drugs, I think the "ban cars" debate is completely irrelevant and should be in a thread related to road safety not drugs.
It is perfectly relevant! Your problem with drugs is that they can kill; "even one death is too many." So if the use of drugs is bad because it resulted in one death, the use of cars is also bad if it has resulted in one death!
Clearly, this is not a rational position to take. Instead, one should look at how often an activity results in death or injury - what percentage of the time it goes bad. If it is rarely, then the activity is probably fine to do.
The main problem with drugs is not death, it is emotional pain, it is crime, it is ruining lives, ruining families, relationships, minds and innocent people. Yes people die from drugs, but people NEED TO EDUCATED AT AN EARLY AGE PROPERLY. Not, 'oh, don't do drugs kids, they are bad for you.'' Drugs have benefits and side affects, downsides. Take valium for example, it has ruined my life as of now, but it may help someone with their anxiety for a while, but not solve the core problem.
Class More details Estimated no. users Users, % of population Average price Deaths, 2007** Cocaine
Cocaine A Stimulant made from leaves of coca bush. Increases alertness and confidence but raises heart rate and blood pressure and users crave the drug.
776,000 2.6 (1.5) �43 per gram 196 (47) Crack
Crack A Cocaine mixed with baking soda to form smokeable lumps. Gives an intense high but is very addictive and causes paranoia and agression.
53,000* 0.2 (0.2) �20-25 per rock **See note below on cocaine and crack Ecstasy
Ecstasy A MDMA or similar man-made chemicals. Causes feelings of well-being but also anxiety and high body temperature.
502,000 1.8 (1.2) �2.40 per pill 47** (11) Heroin
Heroin A Sedative made from the opium poppy. Can be smoked or injected. Users feel lethargic and content but experience severe cravings for the drug.
39,000* 0.1 (0.3) �43 per gram 587 (289) LSD
LSD A Man-made drug which has a strong effect on perception. Effects include hallucinations and loss of sense of time. A "bad trip" can cause anxiety.
83,000 0.2 - - Mushrooms
Mushrooms A Fungi containing the naturally occurring compound psylocibin. Users may experience giggling fits, hallucinations and altered perception.
302,000 0.6 - - Amphetamines
Amphetamines A/B Man-made drugs which increase heart rate and alertness. Users may also feel paranoid. Newer form, methamphetamine or crystal meth, is very addictive. It was reclassified as a Class A drug in January 2007. There are no official usage statistics available.
426,000 1.3 �9.80 per gram 97** (-) Cannabis
Cannabis C The cannabis sativa plant or resin from it. Cannabis is a relaxant but stronger forms can also cause hallucinations and panic attacks.
2,655,000 8.2 �55-134 per ounce, depending on type and quality 12** (-) Class A 1,082,000 3.4 Any drug 3,329,000 10.5 (8.0) 2,640
funny how the legal things have a vastly higher death rate, even considering the ratio of users huh
Yep. That's a very interesting list; thanks for posting some actual statistics for us. I'd wager those deaths would be even lower if users were educated and could obtain pure product.
The main problem with drugs is not death, it is emotional pain, it is crime, it is ruining lives, ruining families, relationships, minds and innocent people. Yes people die from drugs, but people NEED TO EDUCATED AT AN EARLY AGE PROPERLY. Not, 'oh, don't do drugs kids, they are bad for you.
Exactly ThailandTom, people need to become educated, about the negative sides of drugs and not just hear the "some drugs aren't that bad their alright if you know what your doing" view that Vilhjalmr is trying to get across.
Vilhjalmr, I honestly do not know what your trying to say, are you seriously trying to tell me that we should not tell kids or anyone that drugs can ruin you life, and CAN kill you ? And please do not give me the rubbish that not all drugs can do this or cars can kill, you know what drugs I am talking about and you know that your comparison of car deaths to drug deaths are daft.
I talk in facts when I say drugs can ruin your life and can kill you, and when I say that starting on drugs like pot can lead to addictions that take you down dark paths to crack and heroin, its true, you just need to read the stories of people where this has happened, because there are many of them.
Addictions depend on the person, some people are lucky not to become addicted to drugs while others are not so lucky. I for one do not want to find out if I am the latter and I do not want any kid or adult to find that out either, which is why it is important to give the full FACTS about drugs and so people can decide not to take that chance and decide to why stayed clear of them, and not just the fluffy "drugs are not all bad as long as you know what your doing" rhetoric that's coming from you.
Addictions depend on the person, some people are lucky not to become addicted to drugs while others are not so lucky. I for one do not want to find out if I am the latter and I do not want any kid or adult to find that out either, which is why it is important to give the full FACTS about drugs, so people can hopefully decide not to take that chance in the first place and decide its better for them if they stay clear of drugs, and not just the fluffy "drugs are not all bad as long as you know what your doing" rhetoric that's coming from you.
Today, I have had a very positive day, maybe a life changing day. In the last 6-8 months (I cannot remember) I have been able to have any effort or desire to commit to buddhism as valium has clouded my mind making meditation impossible. I finally went to the doctor.
They gave me some antidepressants for 2 weeks which are also social anxiety meds. They cannot be abused which is good. Then, in 2 weeks I have an appointment with a psychiatrist. I have needed this for 8 years, maybe he or she will be able to root out the problem and then I can get back on the path. I really feel change on the way, I am ready now. It has taken multiple rock bottom and near death experiences to get there, luckily some how I did not die, some people consider I should be.
As with most things in buddhism, I consider drugs in the middle way. they can be negative and they can be positive. Isn't everything supposed to be balanced in the universe though negativity and positivity, I think I read it somewhere?
Comments
Drugs are a subject that a lot of people see as fun and can do no harm, but to the people who are addicts and their families, this could not be further from the truth. I just wanted to get this point across.
With Metta
It's not that people should not take drugs. People should have FREEDOM and INFORMATION. It's up to them to decide.
I can't think of much reasons why anyone should do heroine. Heroine is immensely more destructive than other drugs. But I can think of a couple of why one might smoke a joint (anxiety, pain relief) for example. So a war against drugs, putting them all into the same bowl is not wise. A war against anything is unwise. It's not making war you are gonna get peace.
I am with you that some drugs can help, but every drug has a side affect, FACT. I do not agree with anti depressants or anti anxiety drugs as they are merely covering up an under lying problem.
A human life is a rare possibility? So are you a hindu? I thought buddhists believed in rebirth and not reincarnation... I have no understanding of emptiness apart from everything is empty
If you have an addictive personality, I think one should be very cautious with experimenting. One should do research before putting a drug into their body and not be ignorant to the situation. Drugs can cause conflicts in social groups as they are like currency, sometimes they have more power than money.
1.) Decriminalizing drugs makes drug use go down. This is a fact. It has been observed in Portugal, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic already, to name three examples.
2.) Decriminalizing drugs causes crime rates to go down. Think of Prohibition: when something is on the black market, it is surrounded by crime. But no one is forming gangs and killing people over alcohol or tobacco today, because they're not illegal.
3.) Not all drugs are addictive. Not all drugs are bad for your health. LSD, magic mushrooms, cannabis, and ketamine are four examples of illegal drugs that are not addictive or bad for you.
Drugs can hurt you, or kill you, or make you become addicted... but that doesn't mean we should lie about them, or lump them all together. Pamadatthana is telling us that the fermented drinks destroy mindfulness.
Let me state that drug use has ruined the lives of many of my friends, and the smartest thing to do is stay away. I used to use them myself, but after getting robbed at gunpoint and wasting $10,000 I realized what I was doing and have since managed to be completely clean. I'm much happier. But I believe it should be someone's decision, and had I been using different drugs I think I wouldn't have been in that situation.
That is because heroin and crack/cocaine act different upon on your brain chemically wise. They change the way you act and make you steal from even your friends. Yes alcohol can be very addictive, and people have been known to steal for alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant, heroin an opiate and crack/cocaine a stimulant.
''3.) Not all drugs are addictive. Not all drugs are bad for your health. LSD, magic mushrooms, cannabis, and ketamine are four examples of illegal drugs that are not addictive or bad for you. ''
The wrong mushrooms are deadly or harmful, smoking anything is harmful, LSD CAN cause mental damage if used frequently and over a long period of time. Also it is known to be able to cause neurological damage. Ketamine is also harmful, if abused for a long period of time, you can lose all bladder control and even pass crystals through your urine. Something very painful. I know someone who was hopsitalized from ketamine, I also know somebody who had a friend who died from a ketamine overdose. It slows down your breathing and heart rate and he eventually stopped breathing all together.
''1.) Decriminalizing drugs makes drug use go down. This is a fact. It has been observed in Portugal, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic already, to name three examples. ''
is that just cannabis or legalizing heroin and crack as well?
When only criminals have a commodity, it won't be as safe and easy to purchase as if it were for sale at your local grocery. Moreover, the fact that these drugs are black market means the price shoots way up, so addicts often cannot afford their habit without stealing. If these drugs were for sale openly and cheaply, their societal cost wouldn't be nearly so high.
Heroin is a good example of this. By itself, pure heroin is not harmful to the body. It is extremely addictive, but not toxic. [http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cu4.html ] But when heroin is illegal, some consequences follow:
1.) Addicts must deal with gangs and the criminal element in order to obtain it. This is one of the main causes of death, along with #4. [http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/darke2.cfm ]
2.) The price shoots through the roof, so addicts can't afford enough. They then either steal, or
3.) use needles, which IS extremely bad for you... in large part because
4.) the drug is produced in facilities with no quality control, and then cut and cut again with possibly harmful substances, such as quinine. [http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/health/index.shtml ]
These are the main causes of death and injury among heroin users, and they are all directly traceable to the fact that we throw users in jail instead of simply educating them then letting them do as they wish with their own lives. Yes, but we're talking about the right kind of mushrooms. That's true, but I didn't say you had to smoke the cannabis.
However, I am fairly certain LSD cannot cause neurological damage. I wasn't aware of that! But you do say abused. Ketamine is often used as a children's anesthetic, so it cannot be too harmful if used correctly. That's crack and heroin as well, except in the Netherlands.
I have researched LSD and if you abuse it it can cause neurological damage. However, it is not known if it is permanent.
The thing is, when you legalize a drug, subconsciously many people will consider it socially accepted and dabble in it, maybe become addicted and lead to abuse. Maybe I have answered my first question to this post
In the U.S., the drug war is getting really crazy. In Texas, where I live, they are actually releasing rapists and murderers early to make room for all the pot smokers!
I'm hoping that the examples of Portugal and the Czech Republic will spur a change in the way we deal with drug users. In the U.K., a panel of scientists and advisers were requested to gauge how harmful drugs really are. They recommended legalizing a good many drugs and claimed alcohol was worse than almost any other... and now they're in danger of losing their jobs! That's how deep the prejudice against drug use runs.
If you legalize drugs, I think it is obvious it will at least encourage more people to experiment. If they can go to the local shop and buy some heroin or some ecstasy on a whim, just out of curiosity, they may become addicted. You cannot become physically addicted to ecstasy, but you can mentally.
I am aware of the situation in mexico, that is totally crazy, but your situation in texas is also pretty insane. They are seriously letting murderers out early to make room for pot smokers? In the UK you get 15 years for murder, if your a good boy/girl, you get half that normally.
At the end of the day, drugs have been used and abused for many many years, and they will continue to do so. People need to be educated properly and not told 'this is bad' because young people want to be bad a lot of the time.
Secondly, I used to think that life was what you made it but now I believe that one's life is ultimately what one perceives it to be. "I am the awareness in which all of this happens."
I was walking through a soccer field yesterday and I spotted an empty whisky bottle on the ground. My first thought was that someone wanted to change their perspective. Knowing the negative effects of alcohol, my second thought was that there are much better ways to change one's perspective.
I think that limited drug use can change the way a person views the world and that could be a positive thing - sort of like opening a door and looking into another room. All too often, the use turns into a regular thing and ends up stifling the user to the point of negating the advantage of opening the door.
I will stop exchanging with you, as it is clear that you cannot understand or want to, the views I am putting across. I just hope that you do not have to go through any negative experiences related to drugs in your life, and I also hope that your children (if you have them or not, I obviously do not know) do not grow up to have the same attitude that you have towards drugs.
With Metta
And sorry trying to tell me that lsd is not bad for your health is ridiculous. I mean come on, was it good for the persons health who threw themself of a building thinking they could fly because they were on an acid trip ? and there are many cases similar to this due to lsd. As I have said one death due to drug use is one to many in my opinion.
You said
"Drugs can hurt you, or kill you, or make you become addicted... but that doesn't mean we should lie about them, or lump them all together."
Well practice what you preach then and stop trying to tell people that some drugs are fine. They might be fine for you, but for a lot of people they are not fine, they are the start of addictions, addictions that ruin life's.
You said
"Pamadatthana is telling us that the fermented drinks destroy mindfulness."
Yes and also drugs since they also lead to moral carelessness
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Surameraya-majja-pamadatthana
With Metta
http://www.thamkrabok.net/html/treatment.html
I wish you all the best.
With Metta
The stories of people throwing themselves off buildings are mostly urban legends. I'm only aware of one documented incident, and even so there's doubt about whether the man really was dosed with LSD or not. That was also a case when he was dosed without his knowledge; if one is prepared, and has a "trip sitter", that will never happen.
Even if it happened all the time, I was referring to LSD's chemical effects upon the body. It causes no damage, is not toxic, and is almost impossible to overdose on. Not all drugs are addictive. I simply don't agree that all drugs are bad. Do you ever drink a caffeinated drink... like tea? Do you ever take an aspirin or a Tylenol? Maybe an herbal tea with Valerian root to help you sleep? Or are all of these evil and bad, too? I don't remember the author, but I've already posted a link to Wikipedia's translation. Your own translation says the same, to my mind, but you may interpret it differently.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/22402339/detail.html
http://gothamist.com/2011/03/07/man_falls_to_death_from_roosevelt_i.php
I never said all drugs were bad either, drugs which make it hard to think clearly, effect a persons ability to make rational decisions, are addictive and have no real benefit. These are bad drugs, you know like the one's your telling me are fine as long as your
"prepared and has a trip sitter".
And whether a drug is addictive or not depends on the person taking it. For some people it is addictive.
Lastly cars do not alter a persons state of mind or ability to make rational decisions. So unless the driver is under the influence of drugs, I think the "ban cars" debate is completely irrelevant and should be in a thread related to road safety not drugs.
With Metta
Great share Wondering Seeker, the Thamkrabok Monastery looks like it does excellent work.
With Metta
Your second link says the man might have been using salvia, and in any case, I never mentioned salvia, so that's irrelevant.
You should think about what these links reveal to you. Here is one injury related to LSD use. "In 2006, approximately 23 million persons aged 12 or older used LSD in their lifetime." [http://www.quora.com/How-many-Americans-have-tried-LSD ] So one person is injured, but 23 million people have used the drug. Even if a thousand people have died due to LSD, that's better odds than those you face every time you get in a car! You said: "Well practice what you preach then and stop trying to tell people that some drugs are fine." So I guess you agree with me that some drugs are fine...? None of the drugs I listed are physically addictive. You also cannot say they have no real benefit, because that's up to the individual to judge. Many people say there is no benefit to Buddhism, but obviously we disagree here at NewBuddhist.com. That's true. I mean physically addictive when I say addictive. Anything - even hobbies like shopping - can be psychologically addictive. It is perfectly relevant! Your problem with drugs is that they can kill; "even one death is too many." So if the use of drugs is bad because it resulted in one death, the use of cars is also bad if it has resulted in one death!
Clearly, this is not a rational position to take. Instead, one should look at how often an activity results in death or injury - what percentage of the time it goes bad. If it is rarely, then the activity is probably fine to do.
Class More details Estimated no. users Users, % of population Average price Deaths, 2007**
Cocaine
Cocaine A Stimulant made from leaves of coca bush.
Increases alertness and confidence but raises heart rate and blood pressure and users crave the drug.
776,000 2.6
(1.5) �43
per gram 196
(47)
Crack
Crack A Cocaine mixed with baking soda to form smokeable lumps. Gives an intense high but is very addictive and causes paranoia and agression.
53,000* 0.2
(0.2) �20-25
per rock **See note below on cocaine and crack
Ecstasy
Ecstasy A MDMA or similar man-made chemicals. Causes feelings of well-being but also anxiety and high body temperature.
502,000 1.8
(1.2) �2.40
per pill 47**
(11)
Heroin
Heroin A Sedative made from the opium poppy. Can be smoked or injected. Users feel lethargic and content but experience severe cravings for the drug.
39,000* 0.1
(0.3) �43
per gram 587
(289)
LSD
LSD A Man-made drug which has a strong effect on perception. Effects include hallucinations and loss of sense of time. A "bad trip" can cause anxiety.
83,000 0.2
-
-
Mushrooms
Mushrooms A Fungi containing the naturally occurring compound psylocibin. Users may experience giggling fits, hallucinations and altered perception.
302,000 0.6
- -
Amphetamines
Amphetamines A/B Man-made drugs which increase heart rate and alertness. Users may also feel paranoid. Newer form, methamphetamine or crystal meth, is very addictive. It was reclassified as a Class A drug in January 2007. There are no official usage statistics available.
426,000 1.3
�9.80
per gram 97**
(-)
Cannabis
Cannabis C The cannabis sativa plant or resin from it. Cannabis is a relaxant but stronger forms can also cause hallucinations and panic attacks.
2,655,000 8.2
�55-134
per ounce, depending on type and quality 12**
(-)
Class A 1,082,000 3.4
Any drug 3,329,000 10.5
(8.0) 2,640
Now lets look at deaths....
Heroin/morphine 289
Diazepam 79
Methadone 114
Cocaine 47
Ecstasy 11
Temazepam 4
Alcohol* 2,052
Tobacco** 11,300
lsd 0
Vilhjalmr, I honestly do not know what your trying to say, are you seriously trying to tell me that we should not tell kids or anyone that drugs can ruin you life, and CAN kill you ?
And please do not give me the rubbish that not all drugs can do this or cars can kill, you know what drugs I am talking about and you know that your comparison of car deaths to drug deaths are daft.
I talk in facts when I say drugs can ruin your life and can kill you, and when I say that starting on drugs like pot can lead to addictions that take you down dark paths to crack and heroin, its true, you just need to read the stories of people where this has happened, because there are many of them.
Addictions depend on the person, some people are lucky not to become addicted to drugs while others are not so lucky. I for one do not want to find out if I am the latter and I do not want any kid or adult to find that out either, which is why it is important to give the full FACTS about drugs and so people can decide not to take that chance and decide to why stayed clear of them, and not just the fluffy "drugs are not all bad as long as you know what your doing" rhetoric that's coming from you.
With Metta
Addictions depend on the person, some people are lucky not to become addicted to drugs while others are not so lucky. I for one do not want to find out if I am the latter and I do not want any kid or adult to find that out either, which is why it is important to give the full FACTS about drugs, so people can hopefully decide not to take that chance in the first place and decide its better for them if they stay clear of drugs, and not just the fluffy "drugs are not all bad as long as you know what your doing" rhetoric that's coming from you.
They gave me some antidepressants for 2 weeks which are also social anxiety meds. They cannot be abused which is good. Then, in 2 weeks I have an appointment with a psychiatrist. I have needed this for 8 years, maybe he or she will be able to root out the problem and then I can get back on the path. I really feel change on the way, I am ready now. It has taken multiple rock bottom and near death experiences to get there, luckily some how I did not die, some people consider I should be.
As with most things in buddhism, I consider drugs in the middle way. they can be negative and they can be positive. Isn't everything supposed to be balanced in the universe though negativity and positivity, I think I read it somewhere?