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How to reduce tanha (cravings, temptations)?

santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
edited May 2011 in Philosophy
Is it possible for a lay person to completely rid themselves of tanha? How would they live out the rest of their life if they have done so? They would not appear to be normal to the rest of the world, and couldn't this lead into other problems? Would someone agree that this is the main principle of Buddhism and that is to reduce our suffering and thus ending it completely?

Comments

  • 10jellis10jellis
    edited May 2011
    I think a lay person would have to look for it first. Quite unlikely but possible.

  • 10jellis10jellis
    Good luck to anyone trying to rid themselves of tanha! :D
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited May 2011
    An unnecessary dicotomy has been created here, between "layperson" and "monk"

    The Buddha said in at least one sutta the "homeless life" is a state of mind

    So an unordained human being, living in the world, supporting themselves by earning an ordinary living, can live without craving

    They are living via right intention (samma sankappa)

    However, their life will be similar to that of a monk or nun

    For whatever reason, they have chosen to not live as a monk or nun

    Regards

    :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    They would not appear to be normal to the rest of the world...
    Yes
    and couldn't this lead into other problems?
    No

  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    Good luck to anyone trying to rid themselves of tanha!
    Zen Buddhism attempts to articulate the way of practise for those who struggle to understand. But, imo, it just leads to more confusion.

    For example, if a pebble is held in the hand, it requires an act of effort (trying) to let go of it. One simply opens one's hand and drops the pebble.

    This is skilful means.

    But for those who do not comprehend this "effort", Zen must make up all kinds of stories.

    Regards

  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Complete enlightenment you mean? Theoretically it is possible for lay people, some of these can be found in the suttas. Although I would say it is very unlikely especially in these busy times.

    You have to imagine abandoning all craving means there is no more craving for money, for sensual pleasures, for a romance, for personal gain of any kind, for possessions. So what is left for them in lay life? Nothing. Arahats will ordain, or at least have a very different isolated life. But probably ordaining will already have happened after one of the lower attainments.

    " The question of lay arahantship is a vexed one. While the texts record several cases of lay people who attained arahantship, immediately afterwards they either take ordination or expire. "
    http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha267.htm

    How to do it? Well 8-fold path, obviously.


    By the way I'm speaking in classical Theravada terms here. I know some schools have different thoughts about what 'enlightenment' means, like how the guy at the laundromat could be enlightened.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    You have to imagine abandoning all craving means there is no more craving for money...
    Right intention for money is not the same as craving for money

    Even monks like Ajahn Brahm spend alot of their time acting to raise money

    Regards

    :)

  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    These have been helpful. I am glad to be a member of newbuddhist.com :)

    with metta
  • Tikal2012Tikal2012
    edited May 2011
    According to Buddha, at least in his lifetime, there was not one householder, who on the dissolution of the body, had made a complete end of suffering. However he did say that due to his teaching many thousands of householders had become non-returners, many thousands had become once-returners, and yet even more had become stream-enterers. Attaining Arahantship in this lifetime is really only made possible by fully renouncing the worldly life, and going forth into homelessness. The reason for this is because once you get into the fourth Jhana you are experiencing your mind on such a refined level so that you are able to make small tweaks here and there to get it to the perfect little sweet spot required for either (A) experiencing the threefold true knowledges, or (B) experiencing the cessation of perception and feeling, and thus making an end of suffering upon arising from that state. These small tweaks, or adjustments, that you are making in your mind during your meditation require an enormous amount of mindfulness. You can not have any distractions what so ever. Your mind has to be fully dedicated to just this one endeavor, and that's why if you want to reach Arahantship, renunciation is really the only option. However, for many of us, that option isn't really on the table, but that does not mean we are without hope. We can still make vast amounts of progress in the spiritual path. Keep in mind what Buddha says: If you were to compare the earth to a small bit of dirt in ones fingernail, the earth is like the amount of suffering renounced by the attainment of stream entry, whereas that small bit of dirt in the fingernail is the remedial amount of suffering left to be experienced by the stream enterer, before a complete end of suffering is made. :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Arahantship can become a superstition for us

    As long as we can sufficiently end suffering, that is good enough

    This is not a contest for Mr or Mrs Perfect

    The goal is liberation and the Buddha compared the extent of liberation of anyone who knows & sees to the great earth less a fingertip of earth

    There is no need for a fingertip of earth to cause us suffering

    Regards

    :)
  • ZenshinZenshin Veteran East Midlands UK Veteran
    Just wanted to say thank you to to Santhisouk for raising questions that had been on my mind and Dhamma Dhatu for explaining the answers in clear and simple terms that the newbie could understand.
  • ashcatashcat
    Know the things you need. This is the first important thing in life.
    People get mixed up with needing and wanted.
    They think they need the things they want.

    If you can truely master your mind ( help with meditation ) listen to yourself and your thoughts..You will know exactly what things you 'need' in life.

    ''Only when one is fully content with himself he will not 'want' any other thing which he has not'' ~Buddhist Zen Teacher~

    Craving is bad - you shouldnt have to be buddhist to know this.
    ask yourself why are you craving something.

    If its things you 'need' then fair enough. becuase there 'are' good things we do crave - food,water,helping others,shelter, being a buddhist itself is desire.

    But like i said if you truely understand what you do in fact NEED as to WANT then you wont ever ask this question again. :)

    Best wishes on your path.

    (p.s, i only comment once and try and help as best i can, so if anyone wants to address a comment to me personally, send me a PM as i wont look back on this thread. Thanks. Bless)
  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    Thanks ashcat. I will try to apply your teaching to my "108 craving-verbalizations".

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.199.than.html
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