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Your earlier comments about being a spoiled whiny brat certainly apply well me, though they probably apply more to my former self (the purple triangles have finally worn off and the fun ride is over). Were it not for you and a couple of others 'the dark side' of the 'issue' would not be apparent.
What's clear to me is that any thread of this nature is put forward to highlight the positive elements of drug culture. Negative comments are always unwelcome. In case you weren't aware obligatory drugs threads are seasonal and play out ad nauseum, at least in my experience this is the case on every Buddhist forum I've visited over the past 5 years.
That won't put people off. People are either seeking Buddhist literature and asking relevant questions or they are seeking drugs. Voila, here is the obligatory drugs thread for this season.
Although it isn't our job to pollce naive minds the information is interesting from both sides if looking at the situation from polar opposites.
sigh... guess it's true everyone can only liberate themselves. Good Dharma Friends can only help those who wants to change...
I thought it's about "discipline", "concentration" and "widsom"... not "indulgence", "scattered brain fantasical metaphysic speculation", and "false open mindedness without wisdom"...
It's true that no matter how good how a philsophy or teaching are... if the mind is deluded, it will do no good
Hungry eat, Tired (but reality dictates you need to work) drink coffee.
Best, Aaron
Yes and no. In his book Hardcore Zen, Brad Warner tells a story of how someone once slipped a Zen Master some acid. The Zen Master "tripped" just like anyone would. Afterwards the people asked him about his experience, he said "Well, that was stupid".
In the above article it states "Terence McKenna gave DMT to a Tibetan Buddhist monk, and after the experience was over, the monk told McKenna that it brought him to a place the Buddhists had seen many times through meditation, but he also stated that it was about as far as one could go into the Bardo and still return to the physical plane afterward. [...] Sleep deprivation increases endogenous DMT levels, and this triggers these transcendent visions and religious experiences. "
Tripping has nothing to do with Buddhism? It has everything to do with Buddhism! Advocating tripping on any substance is delusional? Intercession for either stance is delusional! Enhanced awareness as a by product of drug ingestion? Indubitably, as NotaGangsta concludes (apropos of nothing), just as personal and cultural defilement is a by product of drug ingestion, drug trafficking, drug culture, et al.
Remember what the dormouse said - feed your head.....(White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane)
Why feed your head? Boredom. Boredom with samsara. Searching for the correct door to the garden of earthly (or spiritual) delight. A natural byproduct of samsara - seeking the door out. How can this not have to do with Buddhism?
Take psychoactive drugs at your risk, brave trippers. Defend your gems of realization but also hold awareness of the hell realms others enter under similar circumstances. Tripping is like going on holiday - we must return to samsara (work, bills, and delusion) when the trip is over - whether it was a bummer or not. And speaking of over - there will not be any conscious altering substances necessary or available upon our return to emptiness. The revolution will not be televised! - Gil Scott Heron (RIP)
Point of view is extremely personal - as with traumatic experiences related to drug culture. Vitriol is a natural byproduct of samsaric experience as is a militant disavowing of that which is perceived as the root cause of such discord. But this is delusional - for samsara is nothing if it is not discord - and it is an enduring (also noble) truth. Condemning raises consciousness but accomplishes nothing if not acted upon creatively in calm abiding.
So, what is the constructive path to embrace the very human frailty behind drug use/abuse - the ecstasy/horror of the fiasco known to us as the drug culture? Education? Rehabilitation? Incarceration? Meditation? There must be some answer. Trippers? Abstainers? Please, because this "War on Drugs" is a formula for failure!
I heard someone bring up Terrance Mckenna earlier, and i believe he has an applicable thought line for this discussion. He simply brought up the idea of what the world culture would be like if instead of being centered around alcohol and cocaine if instead it were centered around pot and mushrooms.
I heard someone bring up Terrance Mckenna earlier, and i believe he has an applicable thought line for this discussion. He simply brought up the idea of what the world culture would be like if instead of being centered around alcohol and cocaine if instead it were centered around pot and mushrooms.
I wonder what the world would be like if instead of people centering themselves on alcohol, cocaine, pot, and mushrooms they centered themselves on building a healthy functional sustainable life for all sentient beings on the planet.
Tripping has nothing to do with Buddhism? It has everything to do with Buddhism! Advocating tripping on any substance is delusional? Intercession for either stance is delusional! Enhanced awareness as a by product of drug ingestion? Indubitably, as NotaGangsta concludes (apropos of nothing), just as personal and cultural defilement is a by product of drug ingestion, drug trafficking, drug culture, et al.
Remember what the dormouse said - feed your head.....(White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane)
Why feed your head? Boredom. Boredom with samsara. Searching for the correct door to the garden of earthly (or spiritual) delight. A natural byproduct of samsara - seeking the door out. How can this not have to do with Buddhism?
It does not have anything to do with Buddhism because it does not lead to the "door out".
The search - the inquiry for the door out - not the arrival at the door out is what has to do with Buddhism. You or I have nothing to do with Buddhism - however, the path upon which you journey has everything to do with Dharma. Too much fixation on the goal - the high - the climax - enlightenment - nirvana! Dharma is all inclusive! Step right up! Mistakes galore! No do-overs but lots of rebirths! It's Dharma even at it's worst and most undesirable. That's just you and me naming it so. The path to Dharma is like the proverbial road of good intentions gone bad - rough and rocky. Just when you think you know Buddhism - you know nothing.
Just when you think you know Buddhism - you know nothing.
Amen.
I find that correlates to everything and not just Buddhism. Right when i think im in control, my life gets all topsy turvy; but, i laugh it off because thats life : D
Wow. The tripping tread sure took some bizarre twists and turns.
Looks like it went off subject into a generalization on the evils of all drugs and of course the old 5th precept. Wasn't the intoxicant people used at that time of the Buddha alcohol? A brain deadening, consciousness killing, frequently abused, highly addictive drug.
I think of tripping more like what the Buddha was experiencing during the time he was living a life of extreem deprivation. No sleep, no food, you will trip. It was part of what lead him to become the Buddha. And what did he say about it. That it was unnecessary. The middle way.
A psychedelic drug can show you the door in brief and elusive glimpses, but the work of meditation allows you to enter. I am not advocating tripping. That was just me back then. Although it did, in part, lead me to the path I am on now, it is unnecessary.
As I've already posted around 70% of respondents to a survey in Tricycle magazine (a Buddhist periodical) taken in the 90s stated that their use of psychedelics had influenced their decision to practice the dharma.
For some loss of a loved one gets them on the Path. That doesn't mean it's a good strategy. However, getting on the Path is so rare that my feeling on this is----whatever brings you to the dharma is fine so long as you're willing to commit to in a proper way, and not as a spiritual tourist. We've got enough of them already.
Many things that influence us to examine our minds. An experience in which the quality and plasticity of our mind is substantially changed for the duration of the drug effect can make some people want to investigate these states further---without relying on the drug. I tried these kinds of drugs my freshman year in college, and I can't say that the few experiences I had with psychedelics made me want to study or practice the dharma; however they certainly made me believe that mind is more malleable than I had previously.
Lastly, I don't feel drugs and practice go together---ever! The wild elephant doesn't get tamed that way.
Comments
Your earlier comments about being a spoiled whiny brat certainly apply well me, though they probably apply more to my former self (the purple triangles have finally worn off and the fun ride is over). Were it not for you and a couple of others 'the dark side' of the 'issue' would not be apparent.
What's clear to me is that any thread of this nature is put forward to highlight the positive elements of drug culture. Negative comments are always unwelcome. In case you weren't aware obligatory drugs threads are seasonal and play out ad nauseum, at least in my experience this is the case on every Buddhist forum I've visited over the past 5 years.
That won't put people off. People are either seeking Buddhist literature and asking relevant questions or they are seeking drugs. Voila, here is the obligatory drugs thread for this season.
Although it isn't our job to pollce naive minds the information is interesting from both sides if looking at the situation from polar opposites.
I thought it's about "discipline", "concentration" and "widsom"... not "indulgence", "scattered brain fantasical metaphysic speculation", and "false open mindedness without wisdom"...
It's true that no matter how good how a philsophy or teaching are... if the mind is deluded, it will do no good
Hungry eat, Tired (but reality dictates you need to work) drink coffee.
Best,
Aaron
whatever you are looking for is already here.
http://people.tribe.net/sigmasmiles/blog/319cabdc-8c8d-4678-9ce9-e0fd347f1550
In the above article it states
"Terence McKenna gave DMT to a Tibetan Buddhist monk, and after the experience was over, the monk told McKenna that it brought him to a place the Buddhists had seen many times through meditation, but he also stated that it was about as far as one could go into the Bardo and still return to the physical plane afterward. [...] Sleep deprivation increases endogenous DMT levels, and this triggers these transcendent visions and religious experiences. "
Anyone know about this stuff?
also dmt is what makes us dream. we trip balls every night for free!
Advocating tripping on any substance is delusional? Intercession for either stance is delusional! Enhanced awareness as a by product of drug ingestion? Indubitably, as NotaGangsta concludes (apropos of nothing), just as personal and cultural defilement is a by product of drug ingestion, drug trafficking, drug culture, et al.
Remember what the dormouse said - feed your head.....(White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane)
Why feed your head? Boredom. Boredom with samsara. Searching for the correct door to the garden of earthly (or spiritual) delight. A natural byproduct of samsara - seeking the door out. How can this not have to do with Buddhism?
Take psychoactive drugs at your risk, brave trippers. Defend your gems of realization but also hold awareness of the hell realms others enter under similar circumstances. Tripping is like going on holiday - we must return to samsara (work, bills, and delusion) when the trip is over - whether it was a bummer or not. And speaking of over - there will not be any conscious altering substances necessary or available upon our return to emptiness. The revolution will not be televised! - Gil Scott Heron (RIP)
Point of view is extremely personal - as with traumatic experiences related to drug culture. Vitriol is a natural byproduct of samsaric experience as is a militant disavowing of that which is perceived as the root cause of such discord. But this is delusional - for samsara is nothing if it is not discord - and it is an enduring (also noble) truth. Condemning raises consciousness but accomplishes nothing if not acted upon creatively in calm abiding.
So, what is the constructive path to embrace the very human frailty behind drug use/abuse - the ecstasy/horror of the fiasco known to us as the drug culture?
Education? Rehabilitation? Incarceration? Meditation? There must be some answer. Trippers? Abstainers? Please, because this "War on Drugs" is a formula for failure!
I find that correlates to everything and not just Buddhism. Right when i think im in control, my life gets all topsy turvy; but, i laugh it off because thats life : D
Looks like it went off subject into a generalization on the evils of all drugs and of course the old 5th precept.
Wasn't the intoxicant people used at that time of the Buddha alcohol? A brain deadening, consciousness killing, frequently abused, highly addictive drug.
I think of tripping more like what the Buddha was experiencing during the time he was living a life of extreem deprivation. No sleep, no food, you will trip. It was part of what lead him to become the Buddha. And what did he say about it. That it was unnecessary. The middle way.
A psychedelic drug can show you the door in brief and elusive glimpses, but the work of meditation allows you to enter. I am not advocating tripping. That was just me back then. Although it did, in part, lead me to the path I am on now, it is unnecessary.
Best Wishes
For some loss of a loved one gets them on the Path. That doesn't mean it's a good strategy. However, getting on the Path is so rare that my feeling on this is----whatever brings you to the dharma is fine so long as you're willing to commit to in a proper way, and not as a spiritual tourist. We've got enough of them already.
Many things that influence us to examine our minds. An experience in which the quality and plasticity of our mind is substantially changed for the duration of the drug effect can make some people want to investigate these states further---without relying on the drug. I tried these kinds of drugs my freshman year in college, and I can't say that the few experiences I had with psychedelics made me want to study or practice the dharma; however they certainly made me believe that mind is more malleable than I had previously.
Lastly, I don't feel drugs and practice go together---ever! The wild elephant doesn't get tamed that way.