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Anyone know about "Zen forum international"?
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Comments
http://spiceyourday.com/?p=101
Come to think of it.......... yeah, whatever.
Now lets consider the fee of a brain surgeon or corporate lawyer
No offense, but it makes me cringe and yes .... angry. Is that unbuddhist of me? Maybe! Buddhists IMO should be more outraged at exploitation for the benefit of boosting egos and lining personal pockets - it's clearly a violation of anything buddhist and humane.
All this time I'm wondering about whether I can stomach this kind of "compassion" where the buddhist perpetrator gets away with a slap on the wrist and their victims are damaged/untrusting for ever.
Also, guru- master- whatever worship perpetuated in this manner ("Look at me I'm worth $50.000 for 5 days x 5") leads to this kind of imbalance. Who in their right mind would buy into this (rather than donate disposable income to a worthy cause helping the underprivileged not the power hungry "masters"?). It smacks of buying favors or absolution from sin as in the catholic church. Both sides of this equation are maladjusted, IMO and thus:
All this makes me question the sincerity of organized buddhist practice. Of course, there are exceptions.
But, is the human spirit really this weak?
I think you are in a web of ideas and your anger belongs to you not me.
I can see a different side to the comments about brain surgeons , corporate lawyers and co. In a mateialistic society, paying lots of $$$ is commensurate with the value we place on the service provided ... not that it is about boosting egos and lining personal pockets.
I love the quote that someone posted a couple of months ago (maybe it was on Zenforum, in fact) by D.T. Suzuki, who when faced with an overly-adoring disciple said, "It's good to revere the master [in the sense that it helps motivate steady practice]. Don't worry. I have enough discipline for the both of us." (I've posted this before, but it's a good one, it bears repeating.)
That's the way it's supposed to work.
What would you like to know?
Alwats amusing to see the word " friend" used as a blunt instrument.
Or is that a horse of a different color ?
Since you've offered, @praxis, thanks. I don't know what the OP had in mind, but I've got a couple of questions.
The mods seem a little overly-concerned with the "no bashing" rule. Now I'm fine with not bashing, but what has happened on several occasions is that someone initiates a discussion analyzing an essay from another tradition, that provides insight on how and when Mahayana and Theravada diverged, or a group of Tibetan Buddhist practitioners (or former practitioners) may gather and get into an historical analysis of the evolution of the TB tradition. Those threads either get shut down (for the "potential" for bashing, or because the discussion of historical facts is perceived as bashing), or a huge warning is posted saying, essentially, "watch your step". The impression given is that scholarly discussion is not allowed. (I PM'd a mod once, and she did allow as how she may have been overly sensitive to a perceived "bashing" risk.) In other words, the concern with no-bashing stifles some good, intellectual and non-judgmental discussion.
Others have wanted to start a discussion about some of the pitfalls of sangha life, to analyze why things go wrong in some sanghas, and discuss. The poster child for that is that forum's fan of the "Critical Buddhism" authors, but just this week someone wanted to discuss how the dynamic in some sanghas can become very un-Buddhist. This person had almost reached the point of giving up the Dharma because of bullying in his sangha, was thrilled that people on Zenforum are so nice, and basically he needed some TLC. If he phrased his topic diplomatically , he could have started a generic discussion (without bashing any tradition or sangha) about sangha dynamics thread and the dynamics of the student-teacher relationship. I've seen comments on those topics on older threads, so I don't see why he was told by mods his topic wouldn't be allowed. (I PM'd him about his concerns, and tr.)
Overall, I'm impressed with Zenforum; it's remarkably pleasant, there are lots of advanced practitioners from whom others can learn, and it is able to discuss certain potentially inflammatory topics with remarkable calm (i.e.the Shimano debacle). But there are certain restrictions that seem unnecessary. Gentle guidance might be one way of managing potentially disruptive topics, or those with "bash potential". If anything had "bash" potential it was the Shimano discussion, but that was handled extremely skillfully. I think the membership is capable of handling some of these other topics equally as skillfully. It's a really good group they've got there. Good job, praxis.
I was also a founding member of Zen Forum International (yes, the setup, the concept, the design, the input, the INTENDED ethos etc) and whilst I do not know if I am banned or not, here is an explanation of what I wrote on genkaku's blog http://genkaku-again.blogspot.com/2011/10/eido-tai-shimano-continued-2.html
It's in there somewhere but in effect, the environment is not so conducive to open, constructive, opposing (which is what discussions typically healthily entail), unmoderated discussion. In essence, disagreement is not that well tolerated, moderators and administration cannot handle anything that is perceived to be "criticism" resorting to abuse of moderation power - and there is a distinct hypocrisy in how those 'powers' are applied.
They also have a weird idea of what Zen Buddhism means - for example, certain moderators seem hyper sensitive to anything that is deemed "opposition" or "disharmony". It is contrary to Zen practice, in my view, because they cannot be comfortable with the shadows and without honestly confronting that, they resort to subconscious covert attacks - through banning, deleting and crushing opposition or anything that looks uncomfortable. Very Churchy but not very in tune with genuine and good honest Zen practice in my view.
I speak from past experience but perhaps it has improved now. As to the person who said there are a lot of experienced people there, actually a lot of good Zen practitioners and friends actually left there or got banned so those left are a certain crew and crowd but I would not take them as authoritative or even that knowledgeable - keeping in mind knowledge in Zen Buddhism is definitely not equatable to practice insight/actualisation.
As to Citta, everyone is also free to see Citta's unrestrained, expert attacks on me, feel free to read them here:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/87875#Comment_87875
Best wishes,
Abu the "expert"
It's descended into personal negative experience,and frankly, it's probably better that any further discussion can be done between yourselves.
Thanks.