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Your thoughts on college.
LostLight
Veteran
I've thought for the longest time that kids who dropped out of college were just lazy and couldn't handle responsibility; that thought is no more. I'm seeing more and more how useless so much of this college business is. People having to pay for classes they'll NEVER use as a preliminary to get into yet another useless class. Most of the time only a handful of the classes actually mean something. It seems like college is merely a way to keep the economy going now. Even as an A student myself, being able to see all this disgusts me. I have a duty to pay my parents back, and to have a career that offers me a way to pay for necessities and extend it onto others who are less fortunate. The thing that has kept me going was the thought that this money could seriously help fund support for people in the world who need it, but such tediousness has further disheartened me. I'm sort of at a standstill of what I should do with my life. I'm from America, so I don't know what the other College systems are like. In general, I'm wondering
What do you think about modern day college?
What do you think about modern day college?
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Comments
I dropped out of college (university in Australia) 20 years ago after two years studying a Commerce degree. I have no regrets although the finance job I commenced 16 years ago now requires a degree.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
I dropped out of college when I was 19. I worked menial jobs that took a toll on my physical health, and when I was 24, I went back to college. Even though i wish I hadn't dropped out, I got far more out of it at 24 than I had at 19, after being beaten down by the real world for a while. My sister travelled and lived a hippie lifestyle for a long time, and now at 34 went to college, got straight As and got a 40,000 scholarship at one of the best colleges in the midwest. She barely graduated high school.
I think the money is ridiculous, and what it supports makes me sad. I think our priorities as a country, and mostly in the western world are totally screwed up and that we are conditioned from a very, very young age to get on the assembly line of the economy and are finely tuned into cogs to keep the family system and thus the economy running. I think eventually it'll crash down, as we cannot continue to support this dying system. So, my problem isn't with college itself, but with society itself. I met some of the best people, took some amazing classes, and learned things I NEVER would have learned otherwise in college. I also have $14,000 in student loans I'm still payin back for a degree I'll never use
Some things you realize only after you've gone through it. But, realizations can come at any time. I remember when I was in my teens I never could figure out why we had to study Shakespeare in school. Then one evening my grandfather and I were watching "The Red Skelton Hour", and as I watched one of the skits I suddenly realized...wow...that's based on Shakespeare.
I was a science teacher before becoming a school administrator. And all during my career I realized that some teachers don't get "it". And what the "it" was, was why you take certain courses. I taught earth science. One of the units of study was rocks and minerals. And of course, I had my students doing a lab over several days where they would identify 20 minerals based on Mohs scale of hardness, the HCl test, the taste test, color, etc. Some kids thought it was dumb. And in one sense, they were right. Almost none of the nearly 2,000 students who went through my course would ever try to identify a mineral in their adult life. But, that wasn't the point, The point was learning about scientific classification...a gateway concept to almost any further science study. That concept is key to studying chemistry and biology. And, classification is a concept ingrained in human behavior...and the study of psychology and psychiatry...and any number of other fields.
I can think of a dozen other examples of the same reason for taking a course. For example, I had a 12th grade history teacher who actually thought the important thing about studying the Civil War was to learn all of the significant battles that took place. He missed the whole point of history. I had geography teachers who thought geography was the study of where certain cities were (as one example)...and they missed the whole point of geography.
In our culture, we have basically 3 types of schools -- the school of hard knocks (essentially, nothing beyond high school), trade schools, and colleges/universities. The latter two each have a different function. Trade schools teach just the facts needed to get a job. Colleges/universities attempt to teach students how to be learned people. Learned people have many more doors open to them than graduates of trade schools. I know this partly because I first went to a trade school in computer programming, and when I graduated I was offered a job as a computer operator at the local factory...and it was my only type of job opportunity. Meanwhile, graduates in computer science at a college and university were finding job opportunities in computer operations, computer programming, and in many other fields where the computer training was just one aspect of a job that was often far more intellectually challenging.
College in the states is not about education anymore.
It's such a sham(e).
I'm an artist and would love to be able to go to a decent art school.
I'm poor though, I could never afford a years tuition.
Ah well, things are not as they used to be when you could work a part time job and pay for college that way. Or work a summer and with the savings from that pay for college for the rest of the school year. Repeat a couple years and graduate debt free or very little debt to pay back.
In no way is it like that anymore.
It is all a money trap/pit.
In short, I do believe classes that some people think are pointless like chemistry or physics are actually extremely important to know, but sometimes you're given a completely garbage class that really would only benefit someone who was going for a different category. Like OneLifeForm said, the system has gotten really messed up.
I just want to prove that I'm not a kid whose complaining about all the "stuff" he has to learn, but rather a kid whose sick of repeat classes and "filler" classes we are given to give us the illusion of a full education.
Frankly, you sound a little depressed. Or maybe you're not challenged enough by the coursework. One thing you can do is take courses that are above your level, by asking the professor to sign a permission card that you get from the registrar. If you have some basic background knowledge of the topic, you'll get signed in. Faculty are always looking to boost their enrollment, so they usually approve eager students. You don't have to limit yourself to entry-level courses, contrary to what you may have been told.
If you think you're depressed, visit the campus counseling center.
Be aware that most BA's don't really qualify you for a job in your field; that's what MA's are for. In today's economy, it's an employer's market, so they require a BA for entry-level jobs, jobs that used to be done by HS grads. The main thing for you to focus on is finding a field that really speaks to you, something you can get jazzed about. Once you're in that, think about continuing to grad school. Some grad programs automatically offer financial aid to those who need it, so the idea isn't completely hopeless.
The first two years of college require you to try a wide variety of courses and disciplines precisely so you can dabble in fields you'd never otherwise consider. In this process, something may unexpectedly click. Be open to new experiences, new disciplines. Play around with the course catalog, and look for offbeat topics that satisfy the basic requirements. Go to an academic adviser or the registrar's office, and get a list of new courses being offered next semester. See if anything there interests you. Play with the possiblilities--get jiggy with it.
But you got it -- it's what you make of it. I started out my regular college experience at a community college for 2 years, and one day in the bathroom there was graffiti right above the toilet paper: "MCC diplomas. Take one. Then I moved on to the state university, and saw the same thing: "SUNY degrees. Take one." Then at the University Of Maryland -- same thing. Then when I was visiting Harvard once -- same thing. Yet, from each college experience I gained in my profession and know others who did, as well.
It also depends greatly where you go to school. If you want a wide variety of classes to test what you enjoy, you'll get a far different experience at a 3000 student school than a 35000 student school. Just depends what you are after, and you should have an idea of some of that before you start (ideally, I realize people change of course).
But yes, with a system as large and complex as it is, there are going to be some issues. The only thing you can do is ask lots of questions and try to avoid them the best you can. By the time you are there for 4 years, you'll be a pro, lol.
My best classes were Greek Mythology, World Religions, Victimology, Crime Scene Processing, and the sociology courses. I was really excited to take Astronomy and it was HORRIBLE because the professor was horrible. I had another class that the professor, who was the dean of the program, was a mean witch, but she taught the class well and I learned a lot even though I strongly disliked her as a person. College is full of learning opportunity, you just have to see it and grab it.
But what I really wanted to ask any college or university was, "How many students did you kick out for academic inadequacy?" I suspect that the number might be startlingly low. The college or university might claim that the number was low because they had admitted such wondrous students. My suspicion, however, is that colleges and universities have adopted some 'creative' marking systems in order to assure a flow of income. Is this academic excellence? I doubt it.
If you're in a small school and are climbing the walls, I'd say: transfer out as soon as you can.
Anyhow, I totally agree about the variety at bigger school. My best friend went to the U of MN and he took some amazing classes. But I also started at a community college and a then a smaller state college, so the offerings at the one I went to were far and beyond what I had experienced otherwise. I just wish our guidance counselor in HS had been better as to be able to make us aware of the vast options out there. If I had known better at that time how to research that stuff (no internet then, boooo) I would have taken a vastly different path. My sister's best friend went to Naropa University for example. It never even occurred to me that such schools existed, and our counselor certainly did nothing to explain that. We were just encouraged to go to school in our state.
The options for educational topics are almost infinite, and if you can't find something you like, you can often create your own.
If you are recognizing some of the systematic problems with the capitalist system , maybe you should explore alternative lifestyles. Many people are able to break free from the grid and start looking into themselves and the bigger world instead of continuing the process.
If you are content with pursuing your degree and are just looking for motivation-- that can be found as well. You can try look outside of the classroom material that you are essentially re-learning and try to understand your classmates, your professors, get involved in your local community or use your time in class as a break to appreciate the freedom of the mind outside of it. Enhance awareness of what is actually happening in the classroom or at your university.
I am in my final semester of a liberal arts degree, but your degree seems quite necessary in today's world if you want to get a higher-paying job, however you may also evaluate your intentions for pursing education and a higher-paying or tech job. Would it be helpful for those in the world who "need support"? Is this support most beneficial? Fueling the same system which got them into their current economic/political situations? Just some things to reflect on I suppose.
Thank you for posting I've thought a lot about these things also in evaluating my choice to return to school after five years out. I am happy people are questioning these institutions and their surroundings.
I'm a journalism major, which many people consider useless...and it probably is. I'm more than likely not going to be the next George Stepanopolis or Anderson Cooper. However, I love writing and telling information; as well as media and video editing. School has helped me develop my writing skills and my knowledge of video editing and producing. However, I do hate the fact that there were many classes which didn't really count toward my major ( like anatomy and biology) which were required for me to take. In the end, those did help expand my knowledge outside of what I am comfortable with and I guess I shouldn't mind them as much, but I still didn't care about taking them at the time.
My dad dropped out of high school and he knows more than anyone else I've ever met. But not everyone is a self-learner like he is. And I don't mean just facts to answer Jeopardy questions, lol. He has built 3 homes from the foundation up, including all the electric and plumbing. He has built cars, he's built 2 airplanes, he's made himself an expert in many different fields, just because he loves to learn and school wasn't a place he could do that because of the constraints of fitting in the box.
So, it's not as much about college as the ability to learn and absorb information, and to be open to changing your mind and learning how to think about things from other points of view. When I was in my sociology class, we were assigned a fake family and we had to take them through challenges. Like one week, the bread winner lost his job and 2 weeks later their house burned down. We had to use real life resources (food stamps, red cross, etc) to figure out how to help them get through. It was very eye opening to have to deal with social services on that level, and the awareness it brought me on what people go through was astounding. I never again judged someone for being in line at the grocery store and having on a nice jacket while using food stamps. Yet so many people cannot see anything beyond "if you have a nice jacket and use foot stamps, you are abusing the system!" Anyhow, the cost of my education was worth that lesson alone.
Because "print media is dying".
Never mind the fact that is all pretty much electronic media based now or that journalism is more than writing articles.
1. Most of the kids who drop college are either lazy or really unconscious about their major decisions. Lazy, because they either don't give a f*ck about learning anymore ( college for them = years of having fun and not having to worry about ANYTHING at all) or because they don't want to learn (and always complain that simple things are "hard to learn" ). Really unconscious about major decisions, because ( that's a real thing here) after the baccalaureat ( you know, that final exam after graduating high school) they go to enlist at 10 different colleges even if those choices are at random and the kid doesn't want them ( the parents want them) . Or, still in this category, still real, some colleges in my country didn't have an entry exam ( my college included) , and had an admission criteria that took into an equation a percentage of the average from the baccalaureat exam grades and another percentage from the average of my annual grades of high school ( 4 years) . By this, it gave the advantage to the 'philology' high school profile ( where students don't learn maths, biology, physics, chemistry and such) and who had better grades ( earned with little to no effort ) over ' intensive maths/computer programming-physics' and 'sciences of nature' high school profiles ( where teachers rarely gave high grades). Now, those from 'philology' who landed, let's say in veterinary college, had a hard time to adapt to an exhausting style of studying ( from 280 students of my 'year', 80 quit after just a month of studying) .
2. Yes, I agree, some classes are just there to fill some spare time. But ( I don't know how college system in America and/or the West works like but I'll suppose that) those useless classes are part of the curriculum and a failed exam at this useless subject or a failed exam at a useful subject is just the same thing. Still a failed exam. That has to be passed.
3. Not always a handful of classes means something. As an egoistic man, in my veterinary career, during surgery let's say, I'll have to combine all the anatomy with physiology with surgical pathology and some other stuff. Now, most people ( even vet. med. students) think that clinical anatomy is something that won't be called upon the said surgery, and that ' the 2 years of anatomy should be forgotten because you'll learn where to and how to do the incision' ( reply from one of my group colleagues) .
4. It keeps the economy going, yes ! The fact is, that in my country, the educational system is just meant to produce illiterate people with diplomas . But it keeps the economy going ( even if it's in a bad direction) . Also, in a 'capitalist' system, all the money that you suppose that will go to the people who need it, will not o to the people who need it.
Now, about college system in Romania : most colleges 'belong' to the state, which means that a number of designated seats at that college are state funded (tuition is paid by the state) and you get there if you meet the criteria ( only those who work a lot , oooor who had the luck, oooor who paid the right man and the right amount of money could get there) and there are paid seats, which again are a number of seats designated by the college ( I happened to land there this year). The thing is, that you can land on a state funded seat if you pass all your exams with high grades (the exams are graded with a number of 'credits', which can vary with the importance of the subject and are graded with the usual grades) and gain the whole number of credits. This thing with 'switching' seats happens if you didn't graduate from another college in the past. Also , some colleges have entry exams ( general medicine, pharmacy, medical assistent, dentist, engineer, etc) and others don't ( they rely on an 'interview with the candidate). Along state colleges there are private colleges which 'mass-produce' illiterate people with diplomas ( for a high amount of money) , and people who graduate from these private colleges are badly regarded by employers all across the country.
Someone above mentioned taking an anatomy class. Basic Anatomy & Physiology should be covered in HS, imo. Shouldn't everyone know how the body works? I took such a class a few years ago, and it was eye-opening. Basic biology, even basic concepts in physics, maybe simple planetary science--how ocean currents affect the weather, how electricity and magnets work, etc., should be part of every school's standard curriculum. We should be able to understand our world. Basic psychology and sociology help us understand our fellow man, ourselves, and society. With this kind of understanding, one can be a better-informed voter, and have the tools with which to interpret the news and current events. Some basic economics knowledge would be beneficial, and this is someone who's math-o-phobic saying this!
But I guess the US is too bogged down teaching "basic skills" to be able to have any vision, and go beyond teaching simple math and reading, which it doesn't do very well even now. The system is broken.
@NomaDBuddha: Where can veterinary graduates work in Romania? Is there really so much demand? Just wondering.
I mentioned it. The thing is, in HS we do basic biology, physics, chemistry, etc. Depends on what HS profile ( 'maths' vs 'philology') are you enlisted in. For maths, sciences go even deeper than the ' basic' level, and keep it straight at HS level, and for 'philology' they remain basic ( still, too many ' philology' high school students can't understand them) . The problem is that that students don't realize that these things make difference between superstition ( ignorance and fear) and understanding ( prevention + security ).
The demand of veterinarians in Romania is something that is discussed right now. Some say that there is no need, others say it is; the fact is that in Romania there is a general need of medics ( 'human' and veterinarians alike) , but there are little to no possibilities to fulfill the needs ( no money for salaries ergo no workplaces ergo lack of staff) . In my domain, there would be a lot of possibilities if either the state or some people with capital would invest in the now semi-functional farms and start production at western standards. And by this, there would have to be at least two vets working at a small sized farm.
As for workplaces :
Clinics and cabinets ( where I intend to work ) -> these are for the people who are really interested in learning and practicing medicine ( I am working as a volunteer at a small neighborhood cabinet) ; there are exceptions where freshly graduates who lack experience open clinics ( because why not ? I graduated after six painful years, mommy and daddy have lots of money) and practice medicine learned learned from...dunno.
Farms -> same as clinics and cabinets; graduates who live at the outskirts of towns will work there. the bad part is that the farms are state owned, are semi functional, and have to function on low budget , which means you practice medicine with little to no adequate equipment.
Quality Control in Food Industry -> inspector; this is for the really desperate and for the really lazy students. It's a quick money job , and from my p.o.v. it's a waste of six years of medical sciences ( there are other people who could work strictly in this domain)
Animal Health and Diagnostics Institute -> lab worker; I gather and analyze samples of different tissues , from different animals, from specific towns/villages to prevent different epidemics.
Hmm... State-owned farms. Sounds a lot like Soviet collective farms...
As I recall, that experiment didn't work out too well...
:wtf:
You are not far from reality. The farms were built, managed and carefully maintained by the communist regime. Nowadays they are just like the ruins of a Dark Age castle, but somehow still functional ( visited this kind of farms in my mandatory practice this summer).