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Liberation and oneness (My first post)
Sabby
Explorer
Hi Everybody,
This is my first post on this site and I am very interested in hearing many opinions.
My question is regarding liberation and the idea of oneness. I believe that liberation is possible, i believe that Buddha as well as many others have achieved true liberation and the cessation of suffering, and i also believe that everybody is one and the same, that we are all God. We are all the Universe. We all are the same energy and matter being expressed in different physical forms. When i look at someone else, my first "conditioned" thought is - This person is separate from me, they don't look like me or act like me, based on the physical senses they are different, but upon further inspection it is quite evident that they ARE me. When the "bare bones" or "rawness" of the person is observed - which happens sometimes only very briefly, or in slight glimpses - It seems obvious that they are the same (i'm not going to elaborate any further just because I want to get to the point and not bore anyone)
So what I am perplexed about is how if we all are one in the same, being expressed differently only in regards to physical appearance, but spiritually we are literally the same essence of life, then why is it that liberation is such an individual experience? What i mean by this is if i am the same as any other person, then why must i achieve liberation independently from then and break the cycle of death and rebirth on my own. It seems very individualistic to me.
Also, i understand that we, as a collective whole, can gradually move towards a more awakened state while we are here on this earth and become more spiritual, but it seems that there will always be "individuals" who will not be willing to join in the movement or even fight against it.
Is this because while we are here on this earth, as this physical form, we can ONLY be individuals?
Any opinions/ideas/insights are very welcome, and i apologize for my scatterbrain approach to this post -i need to work on that clearly!
This is my first post on this site and I am very interested in hearing many opinions.
My question is regarding liberation and the idea of oneness. I believe that liberation is possible, i believe that Buddha as well as many others have achieved true liberation and the cessation of suffering, and i also believe that everybody is one and the same, that we are all God. We are all the Universe. We all are the same energy and matter being expressed in different physical forms. When i look at someone else, my first "conditioned" thought is - This person is separate from me, they don't look like me or act like me, based on the physical senses they are different, but upon further inspection it is quite evident that they ARE me. When the "bare bones" or "rawness" of the person is observed - which happens sometimes only very briefly, or in slight glimpses - It seems obvious that they are the same (i'm not going to elaborate any further just because I want to get to the point and not bore anyone)
So what I am perplexed about is how if we all are one in the same, being expressed differently only in regards to physical appearance, but spiritually we are literally the same essence of life, then why is it that liberation is such an individual experience? What i mean by this is if i am the same as any other person, then why must i achieve liberation independently from then and break the cycle of death and rebirth on my own. It seems very individualistic to me.
Also, i understand that we, as a collective whole, can gradually move towards a more awakened state while we are here on this earth and become more spiritual, but it seems that there will always be "individuals" who will not be willing to join in the movement or even fight against it.
Is this because while we are here on this earth, as this physical form, we can ONLY be individuals?
Any opinions/ideas/insights are very welcome, and i apologize for my scatterbrain approach to this post -i need to work on that clearly!
2
Comments
well i feel that as we strive to achieve enlightenment
we do affect others and we do affect all ,,,, as we are all a part of the same energy
and we are what we think ,,, it will affect everyone in a possitive way
so no matter what even tho we serch for our own elightenment we are in fact
sharing that enlightenment with all, sort of like tebetin prayer flags
or when the monks make a sand picture of the temple and then toss the sand in the wind with all there good intentions we will constantly affect everyone with our own
enlightenment
peace and joy
Coz
Yes, we are the same. We have the same dreams, the same emotions, the same desires. Our minds operate the same way and we are social animals. We have a group identity that connects us to our family, friends, tribe, and life itself. We are One in a most basic and profound sense.
We are also different. We have different memories, habits, experiences, hopes, and personalities. We are each unique in a most basic and profound sense.
One does not negate the other. We are One in our Uniqueness. Let that rattle around in your mind for a while and see what pops up.
Welcome to the club!
may i introduce you to the subject of the five aggregates.
Form,
Feeling,
Perception,
Volition,
Consciousness.
They neither exist or not-exist but self-existing.
The cycles are the interactions of these aggregates, you may find that these covers everything from individuals to the whole samsara.
You may find that when you are a bit more awakened,
the whole samsara becomes less of a suffering.
mindfulness and wisdom to all,
kilesa
A Buddhist practice is not designed for believers. It is designed for those who know, for a realization and actualization of what is simply true ... not sexy, not profound, just true.
"Buddha" means "awake." Is there anyone anywhere who wakes up in the morning wondering whether they are awake? How could anyone wonder such a thing without, in fact, being awake? Does anyone toss and turn wondering whether anyone else is awake and if so, how they managed it?
OK, so there are obstructions and a little reflection and a little meditation may help to clear things up. So ... there is practice. But the practice is not aimed at what you don't know. It is aimed at what you do.
PS Being "a little bit enlightened" is like being "a little bit pregnant." Time for a reality check.
It's possible that we may (and I say may, because I don't really believe in very much when it comes to cosmology), we may, be like cells of a larger spiritual being. We may have our own independent spiritual health, and regenerate, if you will, into new cells, that continue to be part of the larger whole.
Cells are independent, and unique, share characteristics, and yet they are part of a bigger entity... maybe that bigger entity is part of another one... and so on and so forth. And this could be true on a spiritual level, too.
Maybe.
Would anyone recommend any sources of literature or other source that relates to the initial question or where many of these wonderful quotes posted in this thread are from?
It is interesting to know other people here are wondering the same thing and that some are so at peace with the idea. I do find myself becoming more at peace with the whole idea, it is just that i have been a scientific mind most of my life which has led me to over think things (it is something i am working on). From what i have learned from the branches of Buddhism i have looked into is that the answer is usually a simple one rather than a difficult one, we just tend to fabricate complex ideas with our minds, which is already a fabrication in itself and that only leads us farther from the truth - It is a slippery slope!
A little quote i came up with this past summer "We must learn to live with our minds, then without it" Thought of it after reading the Tao Te Ching and reading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Note that when i say mind i am talking about the more egocentric mind that most westerners locate in the head.
Check out http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
Stage 5 also answers your question - there is no universal mind but unique, non-dual and empty minds.
I wonder if we are the cells and the worldwide web is now conscious? How many connections before conciousness?? I think in order for the web to be sentient it would have to want something.. sooo what does the web want?
The more letting go there is the more openness, sense of oneness, love there is.
This brings about a new sense of freedom for the individual.
Now from here a practitioner can go in many different directions.
Oneness isn't much of a problem but it can be a problem.
How? An serious meditation practitioner will reify oneness into a source by clinging to the sense of presence, awareness, nothingness, spaciousness, combination of those.
And this inevitably will condition suffering/stress.
The core delusion of the fabrication of a thing isn't examined.
But that is for when a practitioner gets there.
On a positive note this experience and way of looking can bring about a transformation of the heart and being, which brings great freedom.
But the Buddha went even further and there is more freedom, which hopefully those practitioners can intuit.
Either way suffering will bring them to investigation.
Not all insights, realizations and meditative attainments are equal.
Though we want to package them into neat, simple, easy to digest packages. This is just our projection of what we like.
Some thoughts to ponder.