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Breath becoming shallow

musicmusic
edited October 2012 in Meditation
I have a problem while observing the breath. It becomes so shallow at some point that I have to take a deep breath to get started all over again. What am I supposed to do?

Comments

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    The first step is to be mindful of the breath and whether it's long or short, deep or shallow, etc. The next step is to try and adjust your breathing so that it's more comfortable, pleasant, etc.
    Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.' (MN 118)
  • musicmusic
    But does it point to something else, I mean breath becoming short? It starts deep, though. Also I heard one must just observe without interfering. So I am wondering whether adjustments are okay.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited October 2012
    music said:

    But does it point to something else, I mean breath becoming short? It starts deep, though. Also I heard one must just observe without interfering. So I am wondering whether adjustments are okay.

    I suppose it depends on who you ask. I'd say adjustments are OK. Thanissaro Bhikkhu (the translator of the above reference) thinks so, as well, e.g.:
    If you want, you can experiment with different kinds of breathing. If long breathing feels comfortable, stick with it. If it doesn't, change it to whatever rhythm feels soothing to the body. You can try short breathing, fast breathing, slow breathing, deep breathing, shallow breathing — whatever feels most comfortable to you right now... (Basic Breath Meditation Instructions)
    As far as the sutta reference from MN 118 goes, the breathing process itself can be viewed as a bodily fabrication, and some even interpret this part to mean calming the 'body of the breath.'
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    At some point for many people it is useful to switch from the breath itself to simply resting in that which is aware of the process of breathing.
    mithril
  • musicmusic
    edited October 2012
    Jason said:

    music said:

    But does it point to something else, I mean breath becoming short? It starts deep, though. Also I heard one must just observe without interfering. So I am wondering whether adjustments are okay.

    I suppose it depends on who you ask. I'd say adjustments are OK. Thanissaro Bhikkhu (the translator of the above reference) thinks so, as well, e.g.:
    If you want, you can experiment with different kinds of breathing. If long breathing feels comfortable, stick with it. If it doesn't, change it to whatever rhythm feels soothing to the body. You can try short breathing, fast breathing, slow breathing, deep breathing, shallow breathing — whatever feels most comfortable to you right now... (Basic Breath Meditation Instructions)
    As far as the sutta reference from MN 118 goes, the breathing process itself can be viewed as a bodily fabrication, and some even interpret this part to mean calming the 'body of the breath.'

    I don't understand the last part - calming the body of the breath. Also what sign should I expect after a while of practice? I mean something like jhana.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited October 2012
    music said:

    Jason said:

    music said:

    But does it point to something else, I mean breath becoming short? It starts deep, though. Also I heard one must just observe without interfering. So I am wondering whether adjustments are okay.

    I suppose it depends on who you ask. I'd say adjustments are OK. Thanissaro Bhikkhu (the translator of the above reference) thinks so, as well, e.g.:
    If you want, you can experiment with different kinds of breathing. If long breathing feels comfortable, stick with it. If it doesn't, change it to whatever rhythm feels soothing to the body. You can try short breathing, fast breathing, slow breathing, deep breathing, shallow breathing — whatever feels most comfortable to you right now... (Basic Breath Meditation Instructions)
    As far as the sutta reference from MN 118 goes, the breathing process itself can be viewed as a bodily fabrication, and some even interpret this part to mean calming the 'body of the breath.'
    I don't understand the last part - calming the body of the breath. Also what sign should I expect after a while of practice? I mean something like jhana.

    Calming the body of the breath simply refers to adjusting, refining, and calming the breath so that it's as comfortable and as pleasant an object of mindfulness as it can be. The reason is twofold. The first is that your mind won't want to stay with the breath if it isn't somewhat comfortable and enjoyable to be with. The mind will want to wander off even more so than usual if they breath isn't comfortable. The second reason is that doing so helps to give rise to the five jhana factors for the very reason that it makes it easier for the mind to stay with the breath.

    As for signs to look out for, I wouldn't worry too much about this at the beginning. The first step is to try and drop all the discursive thinking that pulls the mind away from the breath, find a way of breathing that's comfortable (but don't force it too much), and practice staying with the breath throughout the whole breathing process so that you're aware of it coming in and out for as long as possible without your mind wandering off. This part is the most difficult, and it takes time. Eventually, however, once you're able to stay with the breath, and your mind becomes more one-pointed, subtle feelings of ease and pleasure will arise. When they do, try to stay with the breath, but also try to gentle spread these feelings throughout the whole body. This is how you enter and remain in the first jhana.
    Cittamusic
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    edited October 2012
    music said:

    I have a problem while observing the breath. It becomes so shallow at some point that I have to take a deep breath to get started all over again. What am I supposed to do?

    Same exact thing happened to me. It lasted a couple of months, and was quite annoying since I had to take a big breath every so often. I think it might be a fairly common thing. A monk told me I was taking the big breath too loudly, and I should do it quietly! hehe.
    Eventually, after a couple of months it changed and went away. I was advised not to play with the breath and just let it be as it is.
    But Thanissaro Bhikkhu recommends deliberately changing your breath if it is annoying or too heavy or light, etc, and he's hugely respected.
    Best wishes.
  • PatrPatr Veteran
    music said:

    I have a problem while observing the breath. It becomes so shallow at some point that I have to take a deep breath to get started all over again. What am I supposed to do?

    Just let it go, continue, if it becomes shallower and shallower, it will disappear and you're on your way to Samatha. Just let go.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    adjustments are fine. I used to practice pranayama. Deep breathing is indicative of relaxation and as you probably know a shallow breath indicates anxiety. You may not experience this but your body may be tightening or holding.
    The advice is good, it will deepen again in time. Breath centered yoga or Qi Ong might help your body feel comfortable and speed the return to ease. Hope this helps.
    I wish you every success
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Anapanasati and pranayama are completely different disciplines with completely different aims.
    In Buddhist practice the idea is not to " improve " the breathing process. It is merely a vehicle for the development of mindfulness.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    music said:

    I have a problem while observing the breath. It becomes so shallow at some point that I have to take a deep breath to get started all over again. What am I supposed to do?

    This can indicate that we have lost track of the breath somewhat. But noticing is good, so just carry on paying attention.
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    breathing will settle and improve ones well being through increased depth, it is a side effect of breathing based attention.
    When ever we reach an impasse, we can indeed wait or change / include another practice.
    For example my shallow anxiety fueled breathing is always deepeed by practcing mantra or dharani.
    I hope you deepen your breath and mindfulnes, they are very much intertwined.

    Good luck
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited October 2012
    This is natural. When the mind settles, the breath settles as well. If your samadhi is well trained and strong enough, the mind will pick up something that is left behind after the breath vanishes from attention; that is the happiness of the mind. This is what the second paragraph of the anapanasati sutta is about: Being sensitive to happiness and pleasure (piti/sukkha).

    If that feeling doesn't arise by itself, you can point the mind towards it - if you can recognize it, which can happen if you have seen it before. You can also try to rest in the awareness that is left once the breath vanishes. If you are doing well, this awareness of nothing in particular will be stable also. A usual response will be fear of not being aware of breathing anymore, but if you can get beyond that you'll be fine.

    You'll find this in more detail in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators-Handbook/dp/0861712757

    Being forceful, controlling the breath, spreading feelings, being active etc. is all something I personally would not advise for it disturbes the mind. However, if your awareness after the breath disappeared is not stable, I'd gently go back to the breath. For me usually it gets replaced by piti/sukkha, though.

    With metta!
    Sabre
    lobster
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    I think sometimes when someone goes into a deep meditative state, or a very relaxed state, the breath does become shallow. It means that in that state, the body just doesn't need much oxygen, the body processes may slow down, and the breath becomes very subtle. I would just go with it, OP, and stay focussed on your meditation when that happens.
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