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A good death

lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
in Philosophy
An interviewer once asked the yogi Iyengar why he practiced. His answer was 'to have a good death'. It seemed a banal comment but I thought about it a lot over the years. A good death is linked to a good life. It seems an especially skilful comment.
Jasonsovamusic

Comments

  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Getting caught in the gears of a combine harvester... that's the way to go!!!
    poptartsova
  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    Some people don't view death as something good.
    tmottes
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    footiam said:

    Some people don't view death as something good.

    Yes, that's the problem most of us have with it.
    ;)
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    In addition to my practice, I have a plan in place as to what to do in case I am aware of my imminent death. I don't want to go out full of fear and grasping to what is changing.
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    edited November 2012
    PedanticPorpoise said:

    footiam said:

    Some people don't view death as something good.

    Yes, that's the problem most of us have with it.
    ;)
    IMO, a bigger problem is that most don't think about death at all. Therefore, no preparation for it.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited November 2012
    lobster said:

    An interviewer once asked the yogi Iyengar why he practiced. His answer was 'to have a good death'. It seemed a banal comment but I thought about it a lot over the years. A good death is linked to a good life. It seems an especially skilful comment.

    For many practitioners, there is an equally-important factor: death is a very powerful time at which to practice, rich with opportunity for liberation.

    In the final stages of dying, the grosser consciousnesses dissolve into the subtlest form of mind, or clear light mind:

    "If you are able to transform the clear light of death into a fully qualified spiritual consciousness, the mind recognizes its own face, its own nature: the entity of the fundamental mind." (The Dalai Lama, Advice on Dying and Living a Better Life)

    "All the stages which make up the life of each living being--death, the intermediate state, and rebirth--represent nothing more than the various manifestations of the potential of clear light. It is both the most subtle consciousness and energy. The more clear light loses its subtlety, the more your experiences take shape.

    In this way, death and the intermediate state are moments where the gross manifestations emanating from clear light are reabsorbed. At death we return to that original source, and from there a slightly more gross state emerges to form the intermediate state preceding rebirth. At the stage of rebirth, clear light is apparent in a physical incarnation. At death we return to this source. And so on.

    The ability to recognize subtle clear light, also called the Primordial Buddha, is equivalent to realizing nirvana, whereas ignorance of the nature of clear light leaves us to wander in the different realms of samsaric existence." (The Dalai Lama, transcribed from talks given in New Zealand)

    Oh, Child of Buddha Nature, listen!
    Pure inner radiance – reality itself – is now arising before you! Recognise it!

    This radiant essence that is now your conscious awareness is a brilliant emptiness.
    It is beyond substance, beyond characteristics and beyond colour,
    completely empty of inherent existence in any respect whatsoever.
    The essence of your own conscious awareness is emptiness.

    Yet, this is not a vacuous or nihilistic emptiness.
    This, your very own conscious awareness is unimpededly radiant, brilliant and vibrant.

    The utterly indivisible presence of these two; the essence of your own awareness which is empty, without inherent existence with respect to any substance whatsoever and your own conscious awareness, which is vibrant and radiantly present, is the Buddha Body of Reality.

    This intrinsic awareness, manifest in a great mass of light, in which radiance and emptiness are indivisible, is the buddha nature of unchanging light, beyond birth or death.

    Just to recognise this is enough!

    ~ Padmasambhava
    JeffreysovaFoibleFullThe_Dharma_Farmer
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    A weapon in my hand, no fear in my heart, and defending what I love most. That is a good death.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Zayl said:


    A weapon in my hand, no fear, in my heart, and defending what I love most.
    That is a good death.

    :p tweaking your bushido!!
    Toshsova
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Who said it was Bushido friend? :P I was more or less raised Asatru, it's how I am.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Sorry - I hope I didn't offend - it sounded like an honourable death and with the weapon and all made it sound quite samurai!
    Asatru is a completely new word for me - thank you... reading up!
    I can now see you with a hammer rather than a samurai sword... :)
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    Klingon Buddhism.
    One Zen teacher I studied with called Kensho/ satori/ understanding, a practise run through death.
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    Death is a pretty good advisor. When in doubt I always ask Death what to do.

    If I were to die tomorrow what would I choose now?

    That way you always make the right choice and always do a thing properly.

    Having no or few regrets when you die that is a good death.

    /Victor
    sovalobsterThe_Dharma_Farmer
  • driedleafdriedleaf Veteran
    I am not sure but I do think that death without suffering is something wonderful, and if the non-suffering keeps going, then perhaps there would not be a need for the next phase of the endless cycle which would be birth.
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    @Zero oh no! you didn't cause offense at all, I was just being clear lol.
    Zero
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    Being aware and not wishing things were different.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited November 2012
    lobster said:

    An interviewer once asked the yogi Iyengar why he practiced. His answer was 'to have a good death'. It seemed a banal comment but I thought about it a lot over the years. A good death is linked to a good life. It seems an especially skilful comment.

    I agree. It reminds me of a book I read when first getting into Buddhism called Good Life, Good Death by Gehlek Rimpoche, which really inspired me.
  • lamaramadingdonglamaramadingdong Veteran
    I had a "near death" experience (heart attack) several years ago. I went from experiencing the most panic I had ever felt to the most acceptance I had ever experienced. I hope that when my "real time" comes, I can remember the acceptance I felt then.
    SilesovaWolfwoodzenff
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Klingon: Perhaps today is a good day to die.
    Buddha: Life is uncertain; death is certain.
    http://viewonbuddhism.org/dharma-quotes-quotations-buddhist/death-dying-bardo.htm
    Woody Allen: Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
    sovaFullCircleThe_Dharma_Farmer
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    When you have no where to go, nothing more you can do and no time left, what else is there except to accept the inevitable.
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran
    Victorious said:

    Death is a pretty good advisor. When in doubt I always ask Death what to do.

    If I were to die tomorrow what would I choose now?

    That way you always make the right choice and always do a thing properly.

    Having no or few regrets when you die that is a good death.

    /Victor

    thank you @Victorious [Victor], I believe this is a good way to live a life. The knowledge that we must all die someday certainly puts into perspective some of our lesser priorities. Gotta drop it all and go! When Death taps you on the shoulder there's no "hold on a sec" -- drop everything, all chains, all anchors, all identities.

    Jeffrey
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran
    @lobster Awesome link!
    Men come and they go and they trot and they dance, and never a word about death. All well and good. Yet when death does come—to them, their wives, their children, their friends—catching them unawares and unprepared, then what storms of passion overwhelm them, what cries, what fury, what despair! . . .
    To begin depriving death of its greatest advantage over us, let us adopt a way clean contrary to that common one; let us deprive death of its strangeness, let us frequent it, let us get used to it; let us have nothing more often in mind than death. . . . We do not know where death awaits us: so let us wait for it everywhere.
    To practice death is to practice freedom. A man who has learned how to die has unlearned how to be a slave.
    Montagnie
    FoibleFull
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Great comments guys. I particularly like Victors 'Death Guru'. In the Sufi tradition, adepts are described as 'Dead' (to their lower selves). The Buddha too was ready to embrace death after enlightenment. Would that have been a good death. N o o o o o o . . . . [klingon death scream style] :eek:

    No fear of death! No fear of life!

    I think I had better whimper a few mantras in celebration . . . :thumbsup:
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    lobster said:

    An interviewer once asked the yogi Iyengar why he practiced. His answer was 'to have a good death'. It seemed a banal comment but I thought about it a lot over the years. A good death is linked to a good life. It seems an especially skilful comment.

    I recommend "Good Life Good Death" by Gehlek Rimpoche.

    I like giving amazon.com links ... the "customer reviews" say it so very well:
    http://www.amazon.com/Good-Death-Rimpoche-Nawang-Gehlek/dp/1573229520/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352865275&sr=8-1&keywords=good+life+good+death

    It is about the good life you lead. A good life leads to a good death and to a good rebirth. Even without the rebirth doctrine in there, a good life still leads to a good death.
    lobster
  • SileSile Veteran
    FoibleFull said:

    lobster said:

    An interviewer once asked the yogi Iyengar why he practiced. His answer was 'to have a good death'. It seemed a banal comment but I thought about it a lot over the years. A good death is linked to a good life. It seems an especially skilful comment.

    I recommend "Good Life Good Death" by Gehlek Rimpoche.

    I like giving amazon.com links ... the "customer reviews" say it so very well:
    http://www.amazon.com/Good-Death-Rimpoche-Nawang-Gehlek/dp/1573229520/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352865275&sr=8-1&keywords=good+life+good+death

    It is about the good life you lead. A good life leads to a good death and to a good rebirth. Even without the rebirth doctrine in there, a good life still leads to a good death.
    Love this book.
  • WolfwoodWolfwood New
    Tosh said:

    Zayl said:

    A weapon in my hand, no fear in my heart, and defending what I love most. That is a good death.

    You sound young. If you see the carnage that weapons create you may think differently. I also have friends suffering with PTSD from various stuff. One friend did the clean up after Gulf War 1 - he did the body clearances on the Basra Road (I was also there); often using a shovel to spoon body parts into body bags.

    Another was a Warrior chain gunner in Gulf War 2; as a 23 year old he reckons he killed between 10 and 15 people. He's totally off the rails now - he's abandoned a wife and child, been caught drink driving twice, is unemployable and will probably end up in prison.

    It's not glorious, you will have fear in your heart - and in your pants - and it doesn't look like a good death to me. Stinking dirty death; yes, good no.

    You make a very good point. War is ugly. I can't even imagine some of the things our boys have to do and see. I think what I'll take from Zayl is, that when the time comes I hope I can die bravely, defending someone I love.
  • The_Dharma_FarmerThe_Dharma_Farmer Explorer
    @Lobster

    Perhaps when we stop viewing death and birth as some way divisible, then we can gain insight... Not two, not one etc... What it there to die? What is there to be reborn or created? We must transcend this deluded duality, and soon, for as some remember, our human lives are shorter than a single breath, compared to time itself. The work is done off the cushions... Not that there is any work involved, or any cushions for no-one to sit one, hehehe... Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

    "Gate, gate, paragate, parasangate... Bodhi - Svaha!
    Beyond the conditioned, beyond the unconditioned, beyond their duality, altogether beyond going beyond anything at all... Awaken - rejoice!" - Heart Sutta (and my rudimentary interpretation of the Perfection of Wisdom)

    Never forget, you are the path...

    Jay x
    lobsterJeffrey
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Never forget, you are the path...
    I am the way, the truth and the light? Who would have guessed. :screwy:

    It is good to be a born again Buddhist . . . :)
    There is a YinYana saying "No difference unless perceived"
    I once had a yoga teacher who said that a special breathing technique he employed was the equivalent of living one complete incarnation. Que? m m m . . . could be . . .
    Reincarnation, now I am dead as a Buddhist, makes perfection sense.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @The_Dharma_Farmer
    Luv that closing of the prajnaparimita. One translation I liked was...
    Going, going and always going on..always becoming Buddha.

    @From my own meditative experience, I doubt that time, as our identity understands it, is relevant at deaths door.
    Life and death is no more divisible or understandable than it would be trying to describe a three dimension universe to a two dimensional being.

    At this point I think it just comes down to how well we love.
    The_Dharma_Farmerlobsterandyrobyn
  • JohnGJohnG Veteran
    Zayl said:

    A weapon in my hand, no fear in my heart, and defending what I love most. That is a good death.

    It doesn't matter whether you come from the upper or lower ranks; if you have not placed your life on the line, at least once, there is cause for shame.

    Lord Nabeshima Naoshige
    Wolfwood
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited November 2012
    lobster said:

    Never forget, you are the path...
    I am the way, the truth and the light? Who would have guessed. :screwy:

    It is good to be a born again Buddhist . . . :)
    There is a YinYana saying "No difference unless perceived"
    I once had a yoga teacher who said that a special breathing technique he employed was the equivalent of living one complete incarnation. Que? m m m . . . could be . . .
    Reincarnation, now I am dead as a Buddhist, makes perfection sense.


    Yawn ... sorry, :coffee: :coffee: ... was just nodding off then.
    lobster
  • JohnGJohnG Veteran
    You need stronger coffee.
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    :) :facepalm:
  • zenffzenff Veteran

    Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.
    Epicurus
    I love this observation. When I first read it, it struck me like a hammer and I was euphoric for a week or more.

    For those who think death is just the beginning of another chapter in the book; death is no big deal or it shouldn’t be.
    What we really fear is non-existence, but how can that be a scary thing when we think a bit deeper? No-one will ever know what it is like to be dead. “Knowing what it is like” implies we are alive not dead.

    So the prospect of death (meaning non-existence) just throws us back on our experience here and now. That’s all we have. That’s all we will ever have. At the moment of dying we have nothing but a few remaining seconds of life; a couple of crucial seconds of being here and now.
    Believe it or not; the thought makes me happy; I find this liberating.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    My teacher wrote a book called 'there is more to death than dying'. I've read parts and it is quite accessible and contacts the primal feelings about death in that it arouses emotion but still is soundly dharma, though through the eyes of a teacher knowledgeable in the mahamudra. It's not a tantric book though. It just has the teacher's hand and it gets kind of an unsettling quality; all of the tantraish stuff I have read is somewhat unsettling.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    zenff said:


    Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.
    Epicurus
    I love this observation. When I first read it, it struck me like a hammer and I was euphoric for a week or more.

    For those who think death is just the beginning of another chapter in the book; death is no big deal or it shouldn’t be.
    What we really fear is non-existence, but how can that be a scary thing when we think a bit deeper? No-one will ever know what it is like to be dead. “Knowing what it is like” implies we are alive not dead.

    So the prospect of death (meaning non-existence) just throws us back on our experience here and now. That’s all we have. That’s all we will ever have. At the moment of dying we have nothing but a few remaining seconds of life; a couple of crucial seconds of being here and now.
    Believe it or not; the thought makes me happy; I find this liberating.


    We go into the savannah and think "what if there is a lion"
    Then we see a lion and think "what if he sees me"
    Then the lion sees me and we think "what if he chases me"
    Then he chases me and I think "what if he catches me"
    Then he catches me and I think "what if he wounds me"
    Then he wounds us and I think "what if he kills me"
    Then he kills me and I don't think anything!
    Wolfwoodlobsterzenff
  • musicmusic
    Jeffrey said:

    zenff said:


    Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.
    Epicurus
    I love this observation. When I first read it, it struck me like a hammer and I was euphoric for a week or more.

    For those who think death is just the beginning of another chapter in the book; death is no big deal or it shouldn’t be.
    What we really fear is non-existence, but how can that be a scary thing when we think a bit deeper? No-one will ever know what it is like to be dead. “Knowing what it is like” implies we are alive not dead.

    So the prospect of death (meaning non-existence) just throws us back on our experience here and now. That’s all we have. That’s all we will ever have. At the moment of dying we have nothing but a few remaining seconds of life; a couple of crucial seconds of being here and now.
    Believe it or not; the thought makes me happy; I find this liberating.
    We go into the savannah and think "what if there is a lion"
    Then we see a lion and think "what if he sees me"
    Then the lion sees me and we think "what if he chases me"
    Then he chases me and I think "what if he catches me"
    Then he catches me and I think "what if he wounds me"
    Then he wounds us and I think "what if he kills me"
    Then he kills me and I don't think anything!

    Hope you never go on an African safari.
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