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The Eight Precepts
Bunks
Australia Veteran
I have decided to take the eight precepts tomorrow for the first time. It doesn't fall on an Uposatha day I know but my family is away for a bit so it suits me.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/atthasila.html
Question - are Theravadan monks able to have anything other then water after noon?
Wish me luck.........
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/atthasila.html
Question - are Theravadan monks able to have anything other then water after noon?
Wish me luck.........
5
Comments
Good luck :clap:
the monks have also shared little chocolate candies in the past, but it's fairly rare. Here is a link to the monks rules if your interested
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc1/bmc1.intro.html
37. Should any bhikkhu chew or consume staple or non-staple food at the wrong time, it is to be confessed.
Object. Staple food here follows the standard definition given in the preface to this chapter. Non-staple food refers to all edibles except for the five staple foods, juice drinks, the five tonics, medicines, and water.
The wrong time. The Vibhaṅga defines the wrong time as from noon until dawnrise of the following day. (See Appendix I for a discussion of how dawnrise is defined.) Noon is reckoned as the moment the sun reaches its zenith, rather than by the clock — in other words, by local rather than standard or daylight-savings time. Thus, for example, a bhikkhu who is offered food while traveling in an airplane should check the position of the sun in order to determine whether he may accept and eat it. Some have argued that one may eat after noon if one has begun one's meal before noon, but the Commentary says explicitly that this is not the case.
Perception as to whether one is eating at the wrong time or the right time is not a mitigating factor here (see Pc 4).
Effort. The verbs chew and consume in the Pali of this rule are the verbs normally paired, respectively, with non-staple and staple foods. They both mean "to eat," but the question arises as to whether eating means going down the throat or entering the mouth. This becomes an issue, for instance, when a bhikkhu has a piece of food stuck in his teeth from his morning meal and swallows it after noon.
The Commentary generally defines eating as going down the throat, but a passage from the Cullavagga (V.25) suggests otherwise. In it, the Buddha allows a ruminator who brings up food to his mouth at the "wrong time" to swallow it, and ends with the statement: "But food that has been brought out from the mouth should not be taken back in. Whoever should take it in is to be dealt with according to the rule (i.e., this rule and the following one)." This suggests, then, that eating is technically defined as "taking into the mouth."
Offenses. The Vibhaṅga says that a bhikkhu incurs a dukkaṭa when, intending to eat it, he accepts staple or non-staple food. The question is, is the dukkaṭa only for accepting the food in the wrong time, or is it also for accepting food in the right time, intending to eat it in the wrong time? The Vibhaṅga doesn't answer the question, but the Commentary does, saying that the dukkaṭa is for accepting the food in the wrong time. The Vibhaṅga goes on to say that if the bhikkhu eats staple or non-staple food at the wrong time he incurs a pācittiya for every mouthful he eats. As for juice drinks, the five tonics, and medicine, there is a dukkaṭa for accepting them at the wrong time to be used as food, and another dukkaṭa for eating them at the wrong time as food.
No exception is granted to an ill bhikkhu, because there are a number of edibles an ill bhikkhu may consume at the wrong time without involving an offense: juice drinks, the five tonics, and medicines. Also, there is an allowance in Mv.VI.14.7 for a bhikkhu who has taken a purgative to take strained meat broth, strained rice broth, or strained green gram (mung bean) broth at any time of the day. Using the Great Standards, we may say that a bhikkhu who has a similar illness or worse may take these broths at any time; and some have argued that other bean broths — such as strained broth made from boiled soybeans — would fit under the category of green gram broth as well. However, unlike the case with the five tonics, mere hunger or fatigue would not seem to count as sufficient reasons for taking any of these substances in the wrong time.
A substance termed loṇasovīraka (or loṇasocīraka) is allowed (Mv.VI.16.3) to be taken in the wrong time as a medicine for ill bhikkhus and, when mixed with water, as a beverage for bhikkhus who are not ill. No one makes it anymore, but the recipe for it in the Commentary to Pr 3 bears some resemblance to the recipe for miso (fermented soybean paste). Some have argued, using the Great Standards, that the special allowance for this substance should extend to miso as well, but this is a controversial point. As far as I have been able to ascertain, miso is not used to cure diseases in adults even in China, which would be the place to look for its use as a medicine. However, even if the allowance does apply to miso, taking miso broth as food in the wrong time would entail a dukkaṭa.
Non-offenses. There is no offense if, having a reason, one consumes juice drinks, any of the five tonics, medicine, or water after noon or before dawnrise.
Summary: Eating staple or non-staple food in the period from noon till the next dawnrise is a pācittiya offense.
Solar noon is 1.32pm here in Australia so I've just finished lunch...
@Bunks, do you think you'll be able to keep all 8 precepts? Have you given this some thought? Very ambitious.
Coming home to an empty house know there is cricket on the TV, food and beer in the fridge.......too much temptation.
Think I'll just work on the five precepts for a while :thumbsup:
Thanks for you interest people...bless you all.
The 5 precepts Pratimoksha vows are the best to keep for a lay person.
As it says in Prayer of the stages of the path by Je Tsongkhapa.
"The two attainments both depend on my sacred vows and my commitments, Bless me to understand this clearly and keep them at the cost of my life"
By keeping these commitments without fault and having received them from a qualified preceptor we generate immense good fortune that will be a cause of excellent bliss in the future.
The other exception to this for lay people is when on some formal retreats
Keeping them is strictly a matter of personal choice.
good luck.
What are your motives ? What do you want to achieve. ?
Luck has nothing to do with it.
Its about intention and preparation.
I like the discipline of these precepts but they are harder than I thought. Especially practising them alone.
Thanks for your feedback.......
Dont worry about it Bunks. The Japanese have a saying " Six times down..seven times up "..
speaking from someone who is preparing to move forward in becoming a monk.. even I don't live in my lay life by the 8 precepts daily. I would say i'm pretty much almost there in that I don't have cable, but I do watch some shows occasionally on streaming, etc.. stuff like that. I'm not sure the average lay person is even supposed to try to live by the 8, 5 is enough unless you naturally(ie without vow or force) wish to adopt the 8 and they fit into your life.
But I think you will probably agree that they are not tests to fail or pass. Those goals are not achieved overnight for most of us.
Winning gives birth to hostility.
Losing, one lies down in pain.
The calmed lie down with ease,
having set
winning & losing
aside.
win or lose, pass or fail.. all hindrances to our advancement