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Thoughts on the Nature of Enlightenment?

nenkohainenkohai Veteran
edited April 2013 in Philosophy
Is it a condition that is continual in the mind-heart? Can it be momentary/short term "glimpse" of a shifted potential paradigm?

Does non-dualism figure into Enlightenment?

(millions more questions to follow!)

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully

nenkohai

Comments

  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    I am going to assume every answer you get will be guess work and things they have been told, so on that basis it will not be hard evidence as we are asked to find out for ourselves.

    However we all need a helping hand from time to time. I would suggest these glimpses into enlightenment or awakening as insights into parts of the dharma. It could be a glimpse at emptiness and what it is like to bask in that state of consciousness, it could be an insight into non-self or whatever, but actual liberation IMO is something that is permanent. Once the fog has been cleared away and the eyes are fully open, one sees things for what they really are without any desire or delusion.

    Non-dualism to a degree does as we all tend to label things as good or bad, this or that, and this in a sense is giving things a self-hood which in reality do not have a self-hood. The labels are useful in worldly terms in conversation or explaining something, but they can causes issues when trying to penetrate the dharma.
    nenkohaiJeffreyEnriqueSpainriverflow
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    Its finding something about the nature of mind that brings enlightenment.

    So its an existential realization that one wakes up to. Its nothing gained or lost, but it has always been.

    Thus it can be developed.

    So what is it? Looking for mind and its objects, nothing is found. And even the nothing is not found. Finding absolutely no-thing, one finds liberation without anyone or anything being liberated.

    So one could say why the path?

    That basis of not finding is the path and fruit simultaneously.

    Some have glimpses and building a relationship with that glimpse is the path.

    Whereas some see it fully.

    Or some see it but the momentum of karma prevents a fuller realization.

    In regards to non dualism.

    There are two different types. One is of the subject & object merging into oneness or one thing.

    The other is no subject, no object, no "thing" be it one or many.

    The last one is the one that liberates with no remainder as it liberates itself upon realization. The first one is the Self realization of Atman of Hinduism.
  • Wisdom23Wisdom23 Veteran
    I have what i think where glimpses into enlightenment for me it felt like a door had been opened on the top of my head. It was if i had been my own capture for ages the possibilities seemed endless as soon as i thought what can i do? it went lol.

    I have also had surges of really strong emotions once or twice. One was pure joy and just the other day i had a surge of teary happiness, i couldn't explain it lol. It was wierd and good at the same time. Maybe now my mind is stopped being so anxious im fin litle poskets of emotion.

    Hope my dribble has helped contribute to what you were after. All the best.
    nenkohai
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Some have glimpses and building a relationship with that glimpse is the path.
    Those of us who have been to the far shore for picnics, have no doubt about the need for rafts.

    The amount of time you reside increases or fades away. Ideas of permanency or impermanency are part of time, degree of realization and other conditions or states of being. They are not enlightenment.

    What you are asking is 'what is the destination like', the question you need to ask because the answer is comprehensible is, 'how do I get there'?

    You take confidence
    in the awakening - Buddha
    in the means - the dharma
    and the exponents - the sangha

    To answer you question it is a bit like you expect, nothing outside of the ordinary
    and means everything . . .

    :clap:
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    don't know i'm not enlightened.
    proberly never will be.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited April 2013
    nenkohai said:

    Is it a condition that is continual in the mind-heart? Can it be momentary/short term "glimpse" of a shifted potential paradigm?

    The Theravadin perspective (e.g. see "Nibbana as Living Experience") is that full awakening, the end of dukkha, nibbana, is a continual state in or of the mind-heart (citta); but it's also something that we've all had momentary glimpses of before. As Buddhadasa Bhikkhu articulates in Nibbana For Everyone:
    When Prince Siddhartha first took up the homeless spiritual life, he wandered in search of the Nibbana that is the total quenching of all dukkha — he wasn't looking for death! From the famous teachers of India at that time, he learned nothing higher than the experience of neither perception nor non-perception (nevasanyanasanyayatana), a degree of mental tranquility so deep that we can describe it neither as "death" nor as "non-death." He couldn't accept this as the supreme Nibbana, so he went off to search on his own until he discovered the Nibbana that is the coolness remaining when the defilements have finally ended. He called it "the end of dukkha," meaning the exhaustion of all the heat produced by defilements. However much the defilements are exhausted, there's that much coolness, until there is perfect coolness due to the defilements being finished completely. In short, to the degree that the defilements are ended, there will be that much coolness or Nibbana. That is, Nibbana is the coolness resulting from the quenching of defilements, whether they quench on their own or someone quenches them through Dhamma practice. Whenever the defilements are quenched, then there is the thing called "Nibbana," always with the same meaning — coolness.

    Next, notice that the defilements are concocted things (sankharadhammas) that arise and pass away. As it says in the Pali,
    Yankinci samudayadhammam sabbantam nirodhadhammam.
    (Whatever things originate, all those will cease.)
    Any reactive emotion that arises ceases when its causes and conditions are finished. Although it may be a temporary quenching, merely a temporary coolness, it still means Nibbana, even if only temporarily. Thus, there's a temporary Nibbana for those who still can't avoid some defilements. This indeed is the temporary Nibbana that sustains the lives of beings who are still hanging onto defilement. Anyone can see that if the egoistic emotions exist night and day without any pause or rest, no life could endure it. If it didn't die, it would go crazy and then die in the end. You ought to consider carefully the fact that life can survive only because there are periods when the defilements don't roast it, which, in fact, outnumber the times when the defilements blaze.

    These periodic Nibbanas sustain life for all of us, without excepting even animals, which have their levels of Nibbana, too. We are able to survive because this kind of Nibbana nurtures us, until it becomes the most ordinary habit of life and of the mind. Whenever there is freedom from defilement, then there is the value and meaning of Nibbana. This must occur fairly often for living things to survive. That we have some time to relax both bodily and mentally provides us with the freshness and vitality needed to live.
    Citta
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    lobster said:

    Some have glimpses and building a relationship with that glimpse is the path.
    What you are asking is 'what is the destination like', the question you need to ask because the answer is comprehensible is, 'how do I get there'?

    Hmm. A quibble. 'I' cannot get there. All 'I' can do is make me think I'm not there already.
    lobster
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited April 2013
    Nothing in the world is permanent, this includes the mind. So nirvana is not some sort of mind state. In the mind there is no real freedom, only impermanent phenomena. That's why the Teacher said the mind is on fire, consciousness is on fire. Freedom is found by letting go of both states of mind and body. This is what the Buddha called the 'nirvana' or 'going out' of the attachments. When you let go of body and mind, nothing will eventually be left - the 'nirvana' of body and mind. :)
    nenkohailobster
  • BeeHurstBeeHurst
    edited April 2013
    Sabre said:

    When you let go of body and mind, nothing will eventually be left - the 'nirvana' of body and mind. :)

    I thinking my opinion when you let go of body and mind, the peaceful will be left. And body and mind without self atman will too be the left. Buddha have body. Buddha have mind. Buddha have peace. Buddha have not the self atman. Nirvana is the peaceful, the sublime, the end of the mental concocting, the end of the acquisition, the end of craving, the virago dispassionate. This the Nirvana. The Nirvana not end of body and mind. The Nirvana is the "going out" of the greed, the hatred, the delusion kilesa fire. Buddha have body. Buddha have mind. Buddha living for 45 year with the Nirvana. Teacher said the mind is on fire, consciousness is on fire. Nirvana is "going out" of the fire. It not the "going out" of the mind and the consciousness. When the person drinking the whiskey alcoholic too much and have the going out of the consciousness this not the Nirvana.


    nenkohai
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    @nenkohai yes, non-dualism figures into enlightenment, but it is not enlightenment.

    My own Teacher would say, "Clear mind is easy. It's keeping clear mind always and in every situation that is hard."
    riverflownenkohailobster
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited April 2013
    Enlightenment - The laying down of the burden.

    When you let go of everything—
    Everything, everything—
    That’s the real point!
    lobsternenkohai
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