Mara, the evil one.

iamthezenmaster

Finding a Piece of the Truth

One day Mara, the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, "A piece of truth."

"Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it."

http://www.myrkothum.com/the-10-very-best-zen-stories/

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This is my problem with al institutions of faith and religion, buddhism also.
Always have been.
Still,
If it's all there is, gotta try to change it from within.

shays860

I agree. but Buddha did say not to believe anything unless it corresponds with your common sense. So that kind of short circuits the fundamentalism problem from within... or at least it should.

Jeffrey

I don't think that is a Buddhist story? I think it is a modern story, but I am not sure. I have heard it of God/devil in a chain e-mail.

It's still a neat idea. That's exactly how it works, we have an insight and then ego cuts in and says: look at me I did it. I can always feel fear when I think I have 'done it.' If I have done it then what if 'the rug' gets pulled? What if I can't keep 'it'?

vinlyn

Jeffrey, are you saying Mara is a "modern story", or that this specific story is a modern story? And how are you defining modern?

person

Mara goes way back, so he probably means the specific story.

ourself

Finding a Piece of the Truth

One day Mara, the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, "A piece of truth."

"Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it."

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This is my problem with al institutions of faith and religion, buddhism also.
Always have been.
Still,
If it's all there is, gotta try to change it from within.

It doesn't sound Buddhist unless it's just a useful story or a vision. As far as I know, Buddha only ever encountered Mara while in a meditative state and so I don't think he exists as a physical entity. This is why he had no effect on a wakened mind.

vinlyn

Mara goes way back, so he probably means the specific story.

Yes, that's why I'm asking.

person

Finding a Piece of the Truth

One day Mara, the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, "A piece of truth."

"Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it."

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This is my problem with al institutions of faith and religion, buddhism also.
Always have been.
Still,
If it's all there is, gotta try to change it from within.

It doesn't sound Buddhist unless it's just a useful story or a vision. As far as I know, Buddha only ever encountered Mara while in a meditative state and so I don't think he exists as a physical entity. This is why he had no effect on a wakened mind.

In the Jakata Tales there's all kinds of strange stuff like intelligent, talking animals. I've also seen Mara mentioned as an actual being that lives in one of the god realms in some Buddhist cosmology. Not trying to say that any of this stuff is true, just that it exists in Buddhism.

person

This title makes me think of the Led Zeppelin song Ramble On, there's a lyric ...but gollum, and the evil one...

ourself

Finding a Piece of the Truth

One day Mara, the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, "A piece of truth."

"Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it."

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This is my problem with al institutions of faith and religion, buddhism also.
Always have been.
Still,
If it's all there is, gotta try to change it from within.

It doesn't sound Buddhist unless it's just a useful story or a vision. As far as I know, Buddha only ever encountered Mara while in a meditative state and so I don't think he exists as a physical entity. This is why he had no effect on a wakened mind.

In the Jakata Tales there's all kinds of strange stuff like intelligent, talking animals. I've also seen Mara mentioned as an actual being that lives in one of the god realms in some Buddhist cosmology. Not trying to say that any of this stuff is true, just that it exists in Buddhism.

True enough but I still would see talking animals existing in dreamworlds/other planes of existence or at least not on Earth. That's just my viewpoint.

I see god worlds as only existing in reality for the gods. This world is the one where it is possible to wake up, not the god realms.

Which I actually take issue with because I'm not sure how they would get out of there in order to ever realise our true nature. There must be a way to liberate Mara... Buddha showed him compassion but if we all have Buddha nature, wouldn't Mara also have the power to awaken?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey, are you saying Mara is a "modern story", or that this specific story is a modern story? And how are you defining modern?

@vinylyn, the story of the mara saying the man will turn the piece of the truth into a belief. I heard that in a chain e-mail.

vinlyn

Jeffrey, are you saying Mara is a "modern story", or that this specific story is a modern story? And how are you defining modern?

@vinylyn, the story of the mara saying the man will turn the piece of the truth into a belief. I heard that in a chain e-mail.

Ok, cool. Mara is a main character in many Thai Buddhist stories, which is why I was asking.

RichardH

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

vinlyn

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Mountains

I rarely use the word "believe" (or "belief") in relation to my spirituality. I tend to use "understand" or "understanding". If I believe something, that (to me) implies that it is fixed and unchanging. If I understand something, I can expand my understanding as I go along.

RichardH

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Who says that is my view?


The historical Buddha lived at roughly the same time as the birth of the Roman Republic... he can only live in my mind. As for the teachings... the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Mara? I know Mara well... in the same way I know the Buddha.

vinlyn

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Who says that is my view?

The historical Buddha lived at roughly the same time as the birth of the Roman Republic... he can only live in my mind. As for the teachings... the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Mara? I know Mara well... in the same way I know the Buddha.

The "we" was just a general "we".

But I go back to my question, which maybe I didn't make clear. "We" believe Buddha existed...in the flesh. But "we" tend to believe Mara is simply a...well, I'm not sure what to say here...a fable. Why?

Lady_Alison

I have no idea what this story is about...who is Marra? Why is he evil? What did the awakened person find on the ground?

RichardH

Well, there are probably better informed people than I who can talk about the historical evidence for the existence of a man named Siddhartha Gautama.. the validity of teachings are not in doubt by those who have put them into practice over the centuries. Mara has always been presented as a timeless personification of entrenched delusion... habit energy, maybe.. and never a historical figure.

Touching the ground has been interpreted in different ways... One way of seeing it is that when fantasies and fabrications are gone, and there is no reaching or grasping.... and the mind is open, simple, bright, and clear.... the solid earth comes forward and bears witness. The sane solid earth alone.

ourself

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

That's always been one of my favorites.

ourself

I have no idea what this story is about...who is Marra? Why is he evil? What did the awakened person find on the ground?

Mara could be the equivilant of Satan.

The meditator glimpsed a bit of truth... Mara doesn't dig truth, but a piece of the truth can mislead if worshipped.

That's my take on it, leastways.

Lady_Alison

Oh.

caz

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Mara is a Devaputra Mara a God like being of the upper realms, Not a fable.

Sile

I've always been interested to see how different groups--various Christian denominations, for example--treat the "evil" forces. I was raised in one which taught that Satan and his "bad angels" were very much with us at all times, or near, ready to pounce at any moment. There were the good angels, and these bad angels, always engaged in a grim, silent war all around us. Satan was very clearly defined; the "bad angels" less so. Guardian angels, on the other hand, were quite specific, and we each had a guardian angel assigned to us; the "bad angels" remained a rather blurry, anonymous lot. Kept us on our toes, at any rate.

vinlyn

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Mara is a Devaputra Mara a God like being of the upper realms, Not a fable.

And, so there you have it. A Buddhist who believes Mara is real. As opposed to others who see it as a fable. That's my point. It can't be both.

iamthezenmaster

now you're basic story guys....

the devil tested the Buddha under the bodhi tree before he became enlightend!

Zayl

From my understanding, Mara is not inherently evil. What about our desire to become enlightened? that is still Mara's domain.

iamthezenmaster

mara will test one in a milion ways, from love to hate to greed to self,

federica

@iamthezenmaster, when posting anything of this genre, please supply a source link or reference.
That of course, goes to anyone posting any form of quotation, extract, text or article.

Thanks.

iamthezenmaster

http://www.myrkothum.com/the-10-very-best-zen-stories/

:)

federica

Added to first opening post.
Thanks.
Is that where this one comes from, as well?

SpinyNorman

I came across this sutta, in which Mara is described as the "embodiment of delusion"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.olen.html

iamthezenmaster

Added to first opening post.
Thanks.
Is that where this one comes from, as well?

this one I think...
sorry don't know for sure, these two I stumbled upon,
so it's gotta be

misecmisc1

My understanding of Buddha's teachings says: Mara or Maya is the projection of our conditioned mind.

federica

Mara, yes.
Maya no.
Maya was his mother.

misecmisc1

Mara, yes.
Maya no.
Maya was his mother.

Oh, i did not know this. Thanks for telling this.

I was referring to Maya(or illusion) of Samsara in Hinduism. I thought Mara was the Pali term for Maya(or illusion) in Sanskrit.

Anyways, good to know that in Buddhism, Maya is the mother of Mara.

federica

NO......

Maya was the mother of the Buddha.....

If "Mara is the projection of our conditioned Mind" - how can he have a mother?

:rolleyes:

misecmisc1

NO......

Maya was the mother of the Buddha.....

If "Mara is the projection of our conditioned Mind" - how can he have a mother?

:rolleyes:

Oh, how stupid i am :banghead:

Did not even thought about it - If "Mara is the projection of our conditioned Mind" - how can he have a mother?

again realized my idiotness :bawl:

Thanks again for correcting me.

federica

"Everybody has the right to be an idiot for 10 minutes a day.

Wisdom consists of not exceeding that limit....." ;)

caz

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Mara is a Devaputra Mara a God like being of the upper realms, Not a fable.

And, so there you have it. A Buddhist who believes Mara is real. As opposed to others who see it as a fable. That's my point. It can't be both.

There are a 4 types of Mara actually.


The term mara derives from the Sanskrit root mr, to murder. Thus, mara is what murders or causes interference to us limited beings and to our constructive actions leading to the three spiritual goals of one of the better rebirths, liberation, and enlightenment. Mara is also explained as “what puts an end” (mthar-byed, Skt. antaka) – that which puts an end to spiritual practice.

the mara of death (the Lord of Death),
the mara of disturbing emotions and attitudes,
the mara of the aggregate factors of experience (the five aggregates),
the (Devaputra)Mara who is the son of the gods.

It is only the last one the Devaputra Mara which is an actual being.

ourself

The Earth touching mudra comes from the story of when the Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree, and Mara was trying everything to confound him. Just before he awakened, Mara made a claim to the seat of awakening, and called his army to witness. Then the Buddha reached down and touched the Earth.. calling the Earth to witness. There are different versions of this story, but I always loved the idea that the Buddha called the Earth to witness, not Heaven... the solid, sane, earth.

that's one take on it anyway.

So, why do believe Buddha was real and Mara just a fable?

Mara is a Devaputra Mara a God like being of the upper realms, Not a fable.

And, so there you have it. A Buddhist who believes Mara is real. As opposed to others who see it as a fable. That's my point. It can't be both.

What do you mean by "fable" exactly?

"Real" is as "real" does.

A charactor from a story can only do harm if it is believed in and manifested through the actions of the believer.

Mara and Buddha faced off when Buddha was in a meditative state. As "good" as we wish to be is as "bad" as our nemesis becomes within. That's duality for you.

To stay here and be light, Buddha had to overcome the darkside and he did it by showing infinite compassion.

jmo