Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
I like a Buddhist point of view where some say if the Buddha never existed; that he was a mere literary device to make the teachings more interesting; that the dharma wouldn't change a bit.
I think that's a very confident stance.
I always felt that way about don Juan. I still do.
Another renowned king to be in India who renounced so as to confirm his bs then was Bodhidharma, and a martial art expert as well who taught shaolin monks martial art for physical wellness to augment their zen practice then.
The Shakya clan were a warrior people, Prince Goatama is likely to have had a comprehensive education, training in those fields appropriate to a warrior aristocrat, such as martial arts, agricultural management, and literature, and also a deep understanding of the religious and philosophical ideas of his culture. His father was training him to be king . . .
Yes, high-status family, well educated, extensive knowledge of philosophy etc etc. Certainly not an illiterate peasant, as some skeptics like to imply.
The Shakya clan were a warrior people, Prince Goatama is likely to have had a comprehensive education, training in those fields appropriate to a warrior aristocrat, such as martial arts, agricultural management, and literature, and also a deep understanding of the religious and philosophical ideas of his culture. His father was training him to be king . . .
@Lobster, give me a break. What do you really know about that time period over 2500 years ago. What do you really know about the martial arts expertise of Siddhartha? Where is your evidence?
I love history, and here in the States make a point of visiting historical locations related to the Civil War, the Revolution, and now the American West. But I've never fooled myself that even in those relatively well-documented historical periods that I could fully understand what life was like then...and those times were only 100-300 years ago. In over 30 years of traveling to and around Thailand and readings lots about the history of Sukhothai and Ayutthaya and the other kingdoms that eventually became Siam, I never fooled myself that I could fully understand what life was like in those periods beginning about 800 years ago.
But you want to tell me that you have any confident information about Siddhartha's knowledge level about martial arts in a time period some 2,500 years ago. Believe what you like, that's your right, but I think you're being preposterous.
There is no confident information. We only have oral traditions, later written down.
Gautama Siddharta was reported to have been athletic and fit throughout his life, competent in martial arts such as chariot combat, wrestling, and archery . . .
Thank you for seeing that there is "no confident information". In fact, I'd go so far as to suspect it's a little "propaganda" for wont of a better term.
@vinlyn Shaolin temple martial arts was imparted by the bodhidharma who renounced to search for bs of all including himself as king to be and his martial art skill. A good evidence. There is this metaphor in the sutra of a person asking for evidence as well. A kind doctor came with an antidote to cure this person who was suffering in poison, instead of taking this antiqote right away, the person was asking the origin and other evidence the cueing effect of this antiqote, so kind of bs people in trouble and doubt the kindness of that doctor who was to cure him lol
Thank you for seeing that there is "no confident information". In fact, I'd go so far as to suspect it's a little "propaganda" for wont of a better term.
Thank you for seeing that there is "no confident information". In fact, I'd go so far as to suspect it's a little "propaganda" for wont of a better term.
Why the continual skepticism?
C'mon now. People have different natures, you know that.
One author suggesting Gautama was a champion of martial arts and archery before becoming the Buddha is R. Svinth, 2002, A Chronological History of the Martial Arts and Combative Sports.
There are some interesting artistic depictions of Gautama as a martial artists/sportsman.
An 8th c. Japanese silk print depicting Gautama wrestling:
This is one of several 2-3 c. Gandharan schists showing an archery contest:
The Christie's lot description for this piece reads "Carved with Siddhartha drawing a bow on his steed Kanthaka in full gallop, flanked by two attendant figures, separated from a large column at left."
And from Java:
The Buddha competes in an Archery Contest. Java, 700-800 AD. Museum no. IM 172-1926
The blog Gandharan Archives Kurita has, among many other fine entries, a nice series on pieces showing Siddartha competing in wrestling and archery.
^^ Thank you Sile. Nice to see that there is some evidence. I can be more open-minded about it now.
Well...coulda still been just a tale Hard to know. But stone-carvings take a long time, lol...I would hope it would be worth it!
Yes, that's true. After all, in Thailand's ruins I have seen many carvings that are preposterous...but fun. And there is a tendency in most older cultures to attribute more to famous people than was actually true. But at least there is some evidence of it...or at least evidence of the belief in it. After all, there are Buddhist amulets that protect one from bullets and arrows...right?
There are (Karmic) consequences for every/all actions; every Buddhist knows that. I'm sure Quang Duc made his decision to set his body on fire and so ending this lifetime only after the most careful consideration of those consequences. Then he simply made a choice.
How would (us) judging this action "right" or "wrong" change anything for Quan Duc or anyone else? It is done.
http://blogs.cfr.org/lindsay/2012/06/11/twe-remembers-thich-quang-ducs-self-immolation/ To understand Quang Duc’s story it is essential to know the story of Ngo Dinh Diem, the U.S.-backed president of South Vietnam. He came to power in 1955 in the aftermath of the Geneva Accords, which ended French colonial rule and split Vietnam along the 17th parallel. He had gained national fame when he quit a critical job working for the French colonial government before World War II and then refused to cooperate with the Japanese occupiers during it. But he was hardly the ideal choice to lead the new South Vietnam. He was a French-educated Catholic in a Buddhist majority country, and he had spent much of the decade after World War II living in the United States rather than building a political organization in South Vietnam. And he was hardly a democrat. When he rain in a “national” referendum in October 1955, he arranged it so that he won more than 98 percent of the vote.
One author suggesting Gautama was a champion of martial arts and archery before becoming the Buddha is R. Svinth, 2002, A Chronological History of the Martial Arts and Combative Sports.
There are some interesting artistic depictions of Gautama as a martial artists/sportsman.
An 8th c. Japanese silk print depicting Gautama wrestling:
The mandarin isn't depicting gautama wrestling. It is stating that your inherent bliss cannot be intruded by "evilness" deep in your mind same as gautama buddha
Comments
I love history, and here in the States make a point of visiting historical locations related to the Civil War, the Revolution, and now the American West. But I've never fooled myself that even in those relatively well-documented historical periods that I could fully understand what life was like then...and those times were only 100-300 years ago. In over 30 years of traveling to and around Thailand and readings lots about the history of Sukhothai and Ayutthaya and the other kingdoms that eventually became Siam, I never fooled myself that I could fully understand what life was like in those periods beginning about 800 years ago.
But you want to tell me that you have any confident information about Siddhartha's knowledge level about martial arts in a time period some 2,500 years ago. Believe what you like, that's your right, but I think you're being preposterous.
There are some interesting artistic depictions of Gautama as a martial artists/sportsman.
An 8th c. Japanese silk print depicting Gautama wrestling:
This is one of several 2-3 c. Gandharan schists showing an archery contest:
The Christie's lot description for this piece reads "Carved with Siddhartha drawing a bow on his steed Kanthaka in full gallop, flanked by two attendant figures, separated from a large column at left."
And from Java:
The Buddha competes in an Archery Contest. Java, 700-800 AD. Museum no. IM 172-1926
The blog Gandharan Archives Kurita has, among many other fine entries, a nice series on pieces showing Siddartha competing in wrestling and archery.
How would (us) judging this action "right" or "wrong" change anything for Quan Duc or anyone else? It is done.
I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think…. As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him.
http://blogs.cfr.org/lindsay/2012/06/11/twe-remembers-thich-quang-ducs-self-immolation/
To understand Quang Duc’s story it is essential to know the story of Ngo Dinh Diem, the U.S.-backed president of South Vietnam. He came to power in 1955 in the aftermath of the Geneva Accords, which ended French colonial rule and split Vietnam along the 17th parallel. He had gained national fame when he quit a critical job working for the French colonial government before World War II and then refused to cooperate with the Japanese occupiers during it. But he was hardly the ideal choice to lead the new South Vietnam. He was a French-educated Catholic in a Buddhist majority country, and he had spent much of the decade after World War II living in the United States rather than building a political organization in South Vietnam. And he was hardly a democrat. When he rain in a “national” referendum in October 1955, he arranged it so that he won more than 98 percent of the vote.