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Clerical celibacy
zenguitar
Bad BuddhistNew England Veteran
Hi Sangha, does anyone know which branches of Buddhism do not require their clergy (e.g. priests, lamas, etc) to be celibate? I think some Zen schools allow their priests to marry, any others?
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I know some traditions in Japan do, but I am not sure of the name or if they are just considered zen? But I believe Shambhala Buddhism as well. Chogyam Trunpa obviously was not celibate, lol, and was married and had children. Likewise Pema Chodron was divorced and had not been celibate and the person I am familiar with, Lama Tony Duff, is also not. He is no longer married, but was, and has a son who travels with him. Shambhala, if I understand correctly, actually prefers to find it's higher teachers and lamas within the householder community.
Thanks, I knew some Tibetan traditions didn't require celibacy for lamas. I wasn't sure which ones though.
Also, I just saw this. In Thailand there is a celibacy requirement, but apparently no sentience requirement to become ordained.
Buddhist monk ordains trees
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31650591
Interesting in Thailand, a married man can become a short-term monk.
Sorry, I guess I don't really know the actual Thai monastic celibacy requirements. I was just trying to come up with a clever segue to that story.
There's also Korean Taego order of Seon Buddhism that has both celibate and married clergy. And Kwan-Um Zen, the Korean order established in the West, does not require celibacy. Of course, that does not mean "anything goes" even so.
Can the tree then marry? Enquiring minds need to know . . .
http://www.vepachedu.org/treemarriages.html
Anyone who has seen the movie "Zen Noir" will remember the wonderful line issued by a lay nun who is asked by the protagonist detective what the difference is between her vows and the vows of a cleric. Her response, which I can't do verbatim, was very close to, "The vows are pretty much the same, but the lay nun can still get laid."
?
Catholicism does not require its Lay Clergy to be celibate, either.
In fact, the Catholic church is gathering disillusioned conscripts from other denominations which have opened their doors to female Clergy. Disgruntled Protestant priests are leaving their own church to join Catholicism which has, as yet, to accept that women can do the job as well as the men can...
But (and here's the irony) if these Protestant priests, who now convert and become catholic, ARE already married - they are neither required to divorce, nor to abstain from the carnal pleasures of 'knowing' their existent wives.
Which cocks a snook at the Catholic priest's vow of celibacy and makes a total mockery of the whole shebang, yet again, exposing the Catholic church's prominent hypocrisy,
Catholics iz Christians?
Originally Catholic Priests did marry but tended to pass on their wealth, church, power etc to offspring. 10th century CE it was considered 'skilful means' to introduce celibacy to counter corruption.
In the very earliest church, priests were often female, at the time the punishment for being Christian was death by lion.
The most original Christian priests of all, rabbis, never gave up conjugal visitation. Mazel tov or in the words of Rabbi Spock,
Live long and prosper.
@Lobster or any other savant: My vague understanding was that the Roman Catholic Church introduced celibacy when it recognized how much income was to be made. Single (if not always celibate) priests were more likely to die and pass on accumulated wealth (which did not stand in their way of claiming the virtue of "poverty") to the Mother Church. I'm not sure if there are proofs for this, but maybe someone else will know.
I confess it speaks to my suspicious nature to believe it probably is true, human nature being what it is.
Yes, I noticed that too. Particularly ironic given all the scandals about sexual abuse by Catholic priests. I think that alone is a powerful argument for clergy not being required to be celibate, it's asking for trouble. I think I may have mentioned before that I went to a boys-only Roman Catholic boarding school run by brothers, some very dubious stuff went on but in those days it was considered "normal". The head brother would have a couple of boys up to his room at the weekend. Some brothers would hang around in the showers and watch. All very strange.
The Thai Forest monks here in the UK are celibate, they have a monastic tradition.
Thanks everyone. Anyway, I think most Japanese traditions and some Korean traditions don't require celibacy, I now realize after doing some more research.
Also, it's worth keeping in mind that celibacy, along with the other ordained vows, are a choice. They aren't something imposed (in my view) when a person is making the choice. I often wonder if some people become priests hoping celibacy will quiet their improper/impure thoughts rather than simply celibacy causing their sexually improper behavior. Some do quite well with celibacy, others do not. But perhaps those people had questionable thoughts and behaviors before becoming celibate and hoped it would help them cop.
It's more difficult with some Buddhist monks and nuns as they are basically put in monasteries as orphanages when their parents cannot care for them. At 7 they hardly know what celibacy is to make a wise choice whether it is for them.
Ah yes, that might have been part of the plan too. Maybe I can interest you in a papal blessing? $40
http://www.fisheaters.com/papalblessing.html
No? Ah well back to the lamas on tour 'empowerment racket' . . . Eh I mean . . . [lobster goes to back of dharma class . . .]
If you're not careful @lobster, you'll start babbling in tongues, handling venomous snakes and putting on tinfoil pyramid hats!
Mind you, if this does occur, I have a ready supply of 'healing' rocks and they just happen to be on sale this week. Half-price to all crustaceans!
Ah, healing rocks! Very good. I used to know a new-age priestess type who kept telling me the rocks were alive and had a lot of "earth energy", though she couldn't or wouldn't explain what "earth energy" actually was. It's an interesting idea actually, just sad that people don't think through their beliefs in a coherent fashion.
Dzogchen Rinpoche, Jigme Losel Wangpo, the lama that is holder of the Dzogchen lineage in the sangha I belong, is married and has four children.
No vow of celibacy compulsory in his lineage.