The nature of suffering
Liesl918
Greenville, Ohio New
I recently have had to assist my parents as my mother made a difficult transition to a nursing home due to her need for skilled nursing care. Nothing aleves their suffering...not money, not medical treatments, not entertainment or even the kind attention of those who love them. Not even time together ewch day alleviates their aloneness and feelings of despair and hopelessness. It has made me come to know so deeply the truth that there are no external solutions to be found to despair. They are so deeply saddened to be apart from each other and the life they knew together for 65 years. It has made me spend a great deal of time contemplating the nature of attachment as the cause of all suffering. How do you allow yourself to experience love and devotion to another while resisting the attachments that inevitably cause dependence and heartache?
Comments
Never resist attachment to loved ones, it's perfectly natural.
The danger comes when a person becomes 'dependent' on that attachment to bring them happiness, contentment and peace of mind.
Putting so much emphasis on the presence and existence of a Significant Other, clinging/grasping to their continued connection, is where the Suffering lies.
It's fine to love someone with all your "heart and Soul". But your love also means being able to address the temporary and transient nature of the relationship (whichever it may be) and to release it with acceptance.
Nobody says don't be sad.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Affectionately known here as HHDL) loves and misses his mother.
But she died, and he accepts this.
It is far too late to instruct, as it were, your parents on this matter.
Just love and support them, and understand their suffering. It's sad, but inevitable.
And that's ok.
Much Metta to you.
Welcome to the forum.
I'm sorry your opener is one that expresses your sadness. I hope you will find comfort here, with us.
Thank you so much. Your words bring me greater clarity, and yes, it is likely too late for my parents to benefit from HHDL's teachings, I fear, but as I move forward in my own relationships, it is helpful to focus on loving without attachment and finding refuge in the Path and in the companions I will find here in my journey! Thank you so much for your time in responding to my sad little post.
Welcome to newbuddhist @Liesl918 Sorry to hear about the feelings that your parents are going through. Wow, 65 years is a long time. It's completely natural that they are going through this. When you've spent your life with someone, and had them there with you for that long... it would definitely make such a change in living arrangements difficult.
Is your dad still living in their home? I know that sometimes senior's lodges can make arrangements for adjoining suites for couples. Just wondering if that would be an option for them where you are. Your dad may or may not be able to get an adjoining suite because of the nursing care that your mom needs, but he may be able to get a suite in the same facility?
Welcome
I'm sorry your parents are going through this, and that you are suffering with them. Despite our understanding of attachment and the suffering it brings, the vast majority of us (yes, even us introverts) are social beings. For me, the key to working on this has been not to be averse to attachment. Rather, I use my most attached, most loving relationships as examples of what to work towards as far as how I feel about others. Rather than try to detach from my husband or children, I look at other people (I try to anyhow) as if they were my husband and children. That way, rather than having a segregated love just for a handful of people, I can spread it to love everyone (longterm goal in progress, lol). It seems to me that is what HHDL and TNH do. They can be present with any person and experience that person's suffering as their own. They love everyone equally rather than with hold their love only for a few.
You can't change how your mom feels. I feel very sad for her,and for you and your family to see her that way. But you can use her love for your father as a marker to expand love in the rest of the world. If you can love more people strongly, then I think that helps with the hurt when a loved one passes. It's when we put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak, that the eggs get crushed when the basket falls.
This "despair," if that is what it truly is, is only a temporary phase. It will morph into something different and less traumatic, degree by degree. The shock of the present gives way to the adjustments that a loving heart no doubt will make.
True, your parents are deeply saddened to be apart from each other after 65 years together. And, true, attachment is the cause of formidable suffering —but only if one is attached to certain narrow results. But I daresay that true love knows no such narrow expectations.
Carry the word of Love with You: "Just give in to Love and live like each new day is the one that matters most. Because it does."
Even the Buddha's disciple were not spared from the pain of separation.
All that is born has to pass away. The good news is that the pain, sadness and anguish can also depart with time and care.
The important thing to ask is, "Am I crying for myself or for others?"
Good question, inspiring answers.
Love and devotion is not without a willing price. The price of giving may initially be interwoven with an entangled situation.
However it can lead to the expression of friendliness, universal care, love, metta etc. towards an increasing and widening unfoldment.
The dervish bodhis say it simply and best:
'increase in Love'
Don't worry about the price. Love is best served unconditionally ....
That's not 'the important thing to ask'.
Not during the most difficult time.
It's not helpful to suggest that a person ion mourning considers their tears selfish, at a time when they most need comfort.
That's a bit like the twin arrow teaching.
The person is already in pain. No need to press down on the other arrow to push the point home.
If you want to get out of suffering, that is the question that you have to eventually ask. For whom am I shedding the tears? And no. I don't consider crying at loss as "selfish". That is what being human means, being shaken by the worldly winds (gain/loss, fame/disrepute). Giving comfort has its place but it isn't the sublime dhamma. No amount of sympathy will take out the arrow. It is like putting balm on the wound while leaving the arrow in.
The twin arrow is precisely for use in this situation.
"Now, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones, when touched with a feeling of pain, does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. So he feels one pain: physical, but not mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, did not shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pain of only one arrow. In the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. He feels one pain: physical, but not mental."
My point is that timing is everything.
You have to pick your moment to impart the lesson.
While I agree with the sentiment, or question, there is an appropriate, and an unskilful time to ask it.
Often both. But what of it?
You need to take out the mental arrow and not say "so what?". So the choice is to apply some medicine to the wound or pull out the arrow. The medicine is only a temporary measure.
But taking out the mental arrow is not an act of will, it's a result of practice and insight. It's like telling somebody who is depressed to "snap out of it".
I think, though, that we must draw a line of distinction between attachment to people (or animals) and attachment to things. One simply cannot root out from his or her heart the moral compass that other beings impart to us. Emotions are very tricky and the part that our loved ones play in our lives are heavy laden with meanings full of rich nuances. Our memories —the very stuff of mindfulness— of these loved ones permeate us to the core. I am reminded of TNH's analogy of clouds:
We are attached to our loved ones and our Teachers because we have them in our innermost parts.
And that can be a very good thing, Indeed!
"The nature of suffering"
To grieve for a loved one is natural in most cultures " the medicine"....Sadly so is its cousin self-pity "the poison" which can often be mistaken for grief... A medicine? or poison ?...It all depends upon the dose!
"Grief is a multifaceted response to loss, particularly to the loss of someone or something that has died, to which a bond or affection was formed. Although conventionally focused on the emotional response to loss, it also has physical, cognitive, behavioral, social, and philosophical dimensions"
"Self-pity is the psychological state of mind of an individual in perceived adverse situations who has not accepted the situation and does not have the confidence nor competence to cope with it. It is characterized by a person's belief that he or she is the victim of unfortunate circumstances or events and is therefore deserving of condolence. Self-pity is generally regarded as a negative emotion in that it does not generally help deal with adverse situations. However, in a social context, it may result in either the offering of sympathy or advice. Self-pity may be considered normal, and in certain circumstances healthy, so long as it is transitory and leads to either acceptance or a determination to change the situation."
I guess they are both Dukkha.....
If it's any consolation
That is why you use the medicine to apply to the arrow wound. But you still need to take out the arrow when you have the chance. Many of us don't even bother or are unable to take the arrow out.
If you let go a little, you will have a little happiness. If you let go a lot, ... And if you let go completely, you will be completely happy. – Ajahn Chah.
"I love you so much and will miss you" is dukkha.
Bring it on
It is? Tee Hee.
Think of it more like this perhaps:
Love hurts. It is an acceptable pain.
Being without Love is Dukka. It is acceptable.
Whatever arises has experiential qualities. No big deal no matter the intensity.
I love it when a plan comes together.
Hannibal Smith
... however No big deal takes Buddhist practice and it is not appropriate to mention when people are grieving, in love etc.
Sorry
You are welcome here. Welcome to First Class travel with us sad little Buddhists.
"Buckle up your seatbelt, Dorothy, ' cause Kansas is going bye bye"
...Cipher in The Matrix
No, it isn't.
"I love you so much that I can't let you go"
You are half correct ).
I love you so much - no dukkha
I will miss you - dukkha
There is a whole world of a difference between the Buddha's love and that of a worldling. I just hope you can see the difference.
@Pegembara "I will miss you" is not dukkha.
You can miss someone and let them go at the same time. One need not necessarily suffer due to missing the absence of another. It's a statement of fact. "Just 'Be' "
HHDL 'misses' his mother, but has no attachment to the angst or distress of her absence. He simply misses her, but hey, ~shrug~, what can you do...?
"I can't let you go" is dukkha. The inability to come to terms with the absence of another.
I've seen it plenty of times, both on a Relationships forum I frequent (Try telling those in acute emotional pain, it's 'dukkha'! Black eye alert!) and in real life.
It's actually very close to home.
My mother's sorrow is palpable.
I think I need to have another word with her.
Gently, Compassionately.... but another word may be timely, soon.
We are creatures of emotion. We feel loss and we feel suffering. It is a natural part of life, of living. To feel love and devotion to another and not have the pain of separation would be to deny one's humanness - one's humanity. It is in not letting that pain and suffering be your life (control your life) that enables you rise above it.
Even the Buddha had to endure great pain and loss. It did not, however, consume him. He showed the correct attitude and action by his example. He went through the pain and loss but rather than be consumed by or attached to it, he rose above it.
Granted, my wording is a little rough around the edges; but I hope it was, nonetheless helpful.
Peace to all
^^^ that's exactly what I am trying to convey to @pegembara .... ^^^
Well said @Lionduck
... from the misquoted spiderman: 'With great emotion, comes great responsibility'
Most people (mentioning no names but practically everyone) confuse thinking with emotions.
Visceral body based thinking is painful, confusing and the cause of much conflict when not tempered with wisdom, discipline and restraint ...
We of a dharmic persuasion, sit with these emotional arisings NOT to suppress them but to expose them.
In the exposure, their nature is revealed and subsides to be replaced by more subtle, refined if you prefer, emotions.
Increase in Love - it's the wise Mahayana arising to cultivate ... just a better raft of possibilities ...
It's clear from the 1st Noble Truth that suffering has to be understood, and that involves being able to look at it carefully and objectively. Not an easy thing to do, though paradoxically the looking often seems to defuse it. The power of mindfulness.
It is in how we deal with the raw pain of emotion that counts I think. Especially when we witness it applied to those close to us. We feel, we think, we reflect and analyse and use the experience to grow, a living meditation perhaps, the noble truths illuminated by our loved ones. Poignant and profound.
That is what being human means. To be subject to the worldly winds.
How does one transcend dukkha exactly? By enduring it? Life is suffering - just bear with it until it is overcome? Isn't better to find out why we suffer and be truly free?
Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn15/sn15.003.than.html
Metta
Life is both suffering and joy. We do not simply endure suffering. We have the capacity to turn enrich our lives through both the inevitable suffering and joy. Everything is a source of growth and gain in life. The losses of my parents, of my son and of my brother were indeed painful. The also became the opportunities to celebrate their lives and mine with them. They also enabled me to better engage with and even help other who have and are suffering from their losses.
I am able to help them elevate their lives and and elevate mine because I already experienced, endured if you will, my losses and grew stronger from them.
Peace to all
I understand what you are getting at and don't disagree with what you are saying. It is indeed a valid approach to overcome adversity and help others do so.
Since this is a Buddhist forum, what I am saying is that there is a way to uproot the mental arrow completely. The Buddha didn't need to endure great pain and loss anymore because he had the mental arrow removed.
It is the nature of a human being to get suffering and happiness in roughly equal proportions. If we're suffering now, it's because of some happiness that we had before and lost. Happiness is no more than the end of suffering, just as suffering is no more than the end of happiness. We go around in this cycle throughout our lives.
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/1189-joy-at-last-to-know-there-is-no-happiness-in-the-world.html
Metta
Well said @pegembara - the Middle Way.
Up and down is just life. Being up-beat when down and cautious and appreciative when up ...
I get's it. Iz plan! You have a better plan? Share!
Now for some steaming hot cocoa!
try to see the difference between 'five aggregates' and 'five aggregates of clinging'
arising and falling five aggregates do not bring suffering
clinging to 'five aggregates' bring suffering
what are the 'five'?
form, feeling, ...etc.
so in this case we are cling to 'loved ones', namely form (and feeling..etc. arise and fall simultaneously)
there for we suffer
how True is Buddha's Teaching
does Tolle believe in Buddha's Teaching?
does he mention about Buddha's Teaching ?
i just like to know, thanks
Not sure but he was quoted as saying:
"All that arises passes away."
Sabbe sankhara anicca
Google it.
Tolle doesn't define himself as belonging to any particular calling, but admits that the majority of his thoughts run close and parallel with Buddhism....
Yes, the five aggregates of clinging are dukkha. We need to coat them with teflon and make them non-stick.
Teflon + arisings. Tee hee. Cornetto for @SpinyNorman