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Some Hindus working to stop commercialization of religious symbols

karastikarasti BreathingMinnesota Veteran

In our local paper this morning:
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/features/pursuits/4193985-people-dont-know-hindus-strive-end-commercialization-their-faiths-sacred

Thoughts? It makes sense to me, though I can't see I've seen Ganesha toilet seat covers! It's interesting it seems to be so prevalent in Hinduism. Any thoughts on the reason why? Though the article says you don't see those kind of things with Jesus or Mohammed etc on them, I think he is mistaken. You can get Jesus as a toy, as a costume, as a wine corker, lightswitch etc. If you happen to look for them, they are definitely there.

Comments

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran

    They should have thought of this before Hitler perverted the swastika.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    The saying is, I think "Hindsight is 20/20 vision".....

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Religious censorship:

    We can not sell meatballs because it offends his noodliness?
    http://www.venganza.org

    We can not sit on the Buddhas face because our meditation cushion has Tara on it?

    We can not enter a mosque or synagogue because we are not covering our head. In Church remove your hat. Unless you are a woman ... Ay caramba!

    Rajan Zed is a twat. We should worship him. If it creates offense, so be it. After all twats are sacred yonis ... [too harsh? Part of my religious and spiritual duties.] o:)

    “Everything sacred, nothing sacred.”
    ― Bodhidharma

    Personally I like to wipe my feet on Ganesha. He like the Sufis say about Allah, 'is the dust beneath our feet' ...

  • LincLinc Community Instigator Detroit Moderator
    edited January 8

    I was talking with my boyfriend a few weeks ago about why Buddha's head was a flower pot on some shelf in the restaurant we were in.

    If that was Jesus or Mohammad, someone would burn the restaurant down or at least write a mean letter or fifty about it. Buddhists just don't care. If you think that makes your restaurant feel all "Zen" and people dig it, we just can't be bothered to argue. We try not to deal in other peoples' attachments, even the bizarre and public ones. We don't even care much when folks can't tell the difference and think Budai is the Buddha.

    Hinduism has such a rich iconography it lends itself to that sort of thing even more than Buddhism, but they're more in the Islam/Christianity camp about how they approach it. Sounds like a whole lot of useless things to be upset about to me. :o

    lobstereggsaviorkarastiSteve_B
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited January 8

    Agreed @Linc
    People get offended over the Hindu swastika as @David mentions. I find it an impossible symbol to dissociate from Nazism. The Ganesh pic on my wall had swastikas but my disquiet was too strong. Removed them eventually ... :3

    Many Buddhists, Jains and Hindus revere the profound symbolism of swastikas. Good luck to them.
    http://www.seattleglobalist.com/2016/05/09/swastika-buddhism-reclaim-tokyo-olympics-seattle-buddhist-temple/47643

    The important thing is Hindus are not disrespecting Jews by using this symbol. The prudish Christians who decimated erotic Hindu temples are far more sacrilegious.

    My camera is a Kwanon/Cannon.
    http://www.photographybay.com/2012/09/11/canon-was-originally-named-after-kwanon-the-buddhist-goddess-of-mercy/
    Who exactly is being revered/insulted?
    It is about intention and respect ...

    ... Can I drink my yogi herbal tea now or is Shiva being belittled? Don't like it don't buy it. o:)

    federica
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    This is one of my favourite Buddha pictures, and I had it on my 'phone as a screensaver, for a long time....

  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    I suppose it kind of depends on their attitude and approach. If they're focus is on educating people and businesses of the true, religious meaning of a symbol in the hopes that they would be more respectful, then that seems reasonable to me. If they act in method of the day, yelling moral outrage and demanding acquiescence to their views, then I'm so tired of the noise and can't get on board.

    lobsterkarasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    From what I could tell of the article, education seems more the goal. But it seems it would be more worthwhile to work on a local basis in Hindu countries rather than the much larger battle of everything that has been commercialized. I seem to remember a woman who was not allowed into a country on the basis of her tattoo of Buddha. So while Western Buddhists might not care so much, it seems others do.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27107857

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Linc said:
    I was talking with my boyfriend a few weeks ago about why Buddha's head was a flower pot on some shelf in the restaurant we were in.

    If that was Jesus or Mohammad, someone would burn the restaurant down or at least write a mean letter or fifty about it. Buddhists just don't care. If you think that makes your restaurant feel all "Zen" and people dig it, we just can't be bothered to argue. We try not to deal in other peoples' attachments, even the bizarre and public ones. We don't even care much when folks can't tell the difference and think Budai is the Buddha.

    Hinduism has such a rich iconography it lends itself to that sort of thing even more than Buddhism, but they're more in the Islam/Christianity camp about how they approach it. Sounds like a whole lot of useless things to be upset about to me. :o

    Not all Buddhists are as apathetic though.......

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/76180073/Kiwi-who-insulted-Buddha-released-from-Myanmar-prison

    dhammachick
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @David said:
    They should have thought of this before Hitler perverted the swastika.

    Aaah good 'ol Godwin..... :-1:

  • If only Hitler had adopted the chinese lucky cat as a symbol - no buddhist would be offended by the fact that he reversed a lucky charm... Which is why he lost the war of course.

    Enjoy the symbol!

    Don't connote his perversion to it and you will be fine!

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    I can understand why Hindus don't want their symbols commercialised. I support their intent.

    And FFS can we use someone other than Hitler to make a point? A little originality huh? :confused:

    Steve_B
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    I wonder if the Germans were offended by the 80's Pop Group, Spandau Ballet? I've never heard them trowing a Hessy fit over it....

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    @dhammachick said:
    I can understand why Hindus don't want their symbols commercialised. I support their intent.

    And FFS can we use someone other than Hitler to make a point? A little originality huh? :confused:

    Hannibal?
    Vlad the Impaler?
    Pol Pot?
    Gadaffi?
    Ayatollah Khomeni?
    Mao Tse Tung?
    Saddam Hussein?
    The Salem Puritans?
    The Spanish Inquisition?

    Roll up, Roll up! Take your pick people, for an even-handed pot-shot!

    dhammachickTigger
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    I'll take Vlad the Impaler for $500 :+1:

    federica
  • It is a question of intention, association and context. For example I am immediately aware of the swastika in @federica screensaver. So I would just use an image without such associations. However I would be quite happy having a wrathful yidam image as I have a different mind set with those ...

    https://www.quora.com/In-India-why-are-images-of-Hindu-gods-printed-on-harmful-tobacco-products-such-as-bidi-packs-gutkha-and-wine-shops-named-after-Hindu-gods

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @federica said:
    I wonder if the Germans were offended by the 80's Pop Group, Spandau Ballet? I've never heard them trowing a Hessy fit over it....

    EVERYONE was offended by Spandau Ballet! I mean, come on, True? :tongue:

    federicalobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    (Well..... actually....I didn't mind them...... :blush: )

    dhammachick
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    I preferred them to Ultravox..... I did TRY to like Ultravox but you know.......

  • ffs @federica did vlad the impala pervert the swastika. harsh words - had a bad day or something?

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited January 10

    @satcittananda said:
    ffs @federica did vlad the impala pervert the swastika. harsh words - had a bad day or something?

    You missed the sarcasm. If anyone's salty here it's me. Re read the thread.

    And if anyone is going to say FFS, it's also me. Using Hitler to make a point is really ***ing old and annoying. Is that clear enough?

    Lonely_Traveller
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator
    edited January 11

    @satcittananda said: ffs @federica did vlad the impala pervert the swastika. harsh words - had a bad day or something?

    You quite obviously did not get the gist of the post. My comment was intended as humorous, and a diversion from the original 'perversers'.
    And it is little wonder (or even a secret) that @dhammachick is sensitive to references to The Germans and the implications of the Holocaust. She is Jewish.

    A little more attention - and tact - would be appreciated, not to say recommended.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    Yes, the Hitler comparisons have just gone way too far. You don't hear people who actually lived during WWII making such comparisons. I bet there is a reason why...

    My kids go to a school that was built in the late 40s, and the floor tile in some areas has the reverse swastika on it. When I was a kid, I didn't know there was any difference and was just utterly shocked why a school built right around that time would have Nazi symbols on the floor.

    federicadhammachickTigger
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    I'm going to say, on a final note regarding the swastika, that there is a vast difference between its use, and that of the Hindu Gods and Deities being discussed, and that is that the Gods and Deities are in wide and varied use for all manner of things, both serious and frivolous.
    The Swastika was a total perversion of something Good, Sacred and Wholesome, and so widely was it broadcast in that sinister way, that sadly, I don't believe its use in the West will ever revert to its original intention, for several lifetimes to come, if ever.

    End of Swastika Discussion, Period.

    lobsterLonely_TravellerTigger
  • No I didn't get the gist @federica - there are obviously deeper relationships in this new Buddhist network that I am not aware of. Hopefully I will become more acutely (or should I say chronically) aware of them and accommodate them better in the future.

    Apologies are offered graciously to you all, especially if I have offended anyone in particular.

    Lonely_TravellerTiggerSteve_B
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Some Hindus working to stop commercialization of religious symbols

    Good on them & good luck to them (puns intended) :)

    dhammachick
  • Lonely_TravellerLonely_Traveller East Midlands UK Veteran

    @dhammachick I hated Ultravox at the time, now I quite like them - nostalgia for the win.

    dhammachick
  • Some Hindus working to stop commercialization of religious symbols

    Kind of like shouting into the gale or attempts to stop the wind.

    lobster
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited January 11

    @satcittananda said:
    No I didn't get the gist @federica - there are obviously deeper relationships in this new Buddhist network that I am not aware of. Hopefully I will become more acutely (or should I say chronically) aware of them and accommodate them better in the future.

    Apologies are offered graciously to you all, especially if I have offended anyone in particular.

    You weren't aware of my Jewish heritage deliberately in this thread. Although it's common knowledge to most that I am Jewish as I have freely stated in many posts on the forum. I withheld that fact when expressing my exasperation because it's not even the main reason or a big deal that I was so exasperated.

    There were other examples given in the OP - Christianity and Islam were mentioned by name. But no, the default is always Hitler. And it gets on my nerves, especially when in a LOT of other posts people line up to bash Christianity. To me, defaulting to Hitler is lazy. Yes we all know he was an arsehole who killed 6 million Jews and hundreds of thousands of others - Romas, homosexuals, Christians who sympathised with the Jews, along with other Germans and anyone else who helped the Jews or had the balls to tell Hitler he was a douchebag.

    Another reason why I omitted mentioning my Jewish heritage is that quite often - **_though NEVER here **- I get told "You're just using being Jewish to get sympathy" or (my fave) "Stop playing the victim card. It was 70 years ago, get over it" Nevermind my family were actually murdered in Auschwitz.

    So the bottom line is - there are PLENTY of other examples to choose from, as @federica pointed out. I believe we should use them once in a while and stop constantly proving Godwin's theory right.

    And now I'll say no more :silenced:

    _ /\ _

    karastiTigger
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    @Lonely_Traveller said:
    @dhammachick I hated Ultravox at the time, now I quite like them - nostalgia for the win.

    I look at 'then' and 'now' pictures of Classic 80's Boy bands and think, "God, how they've aged!" then am brought up smartish when I think "Then so have I!"
    Then again, I was neither party nor acquaintance of the 'hedonistic' lifestyles they pursued then.... drink and drugs can be very ageing.... (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!)

    dhammachick
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited January 11

    There are at least two approaches, separate the holy or sanctify the mundane.

    I tend to worship my toaster as it is able to roast the Buddha/'body of Christ'. It is also shiny like a mirror, thus allowing me to see the Buddhas true nature. :glasses:

    Bonus track:

  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited January 11

    @lobster - why you do this to me? :heartbreak:

    Why not:

    :tongue:

    lobster
  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran
    edited January 11

    Message deleted.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    @David:
    Which part of this comment, did you not understand?

    @federica said: I'm going to say, on a final note regarding the swastika, that there is a vast difference between its use, and that of the Hindu Gods and Deities being discussed, and that is that the Gods and Deities are in wide and varied use for all manner of things, both serious and frivolous.
    The Swastika was a total perversion of something Good, Sacred and Wholesome, and so widely was it broadcast in that sinister way, that sadly, I don't believe its use in the West will ever revert to its original intention, for several lifetimes to come, if ever.

    End of Swastika Discussion, Period.

    You're not happy I deleted your rather rude message?

    TFB.

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran
    edited January 11

    Whatever, geez.

    I wasn't really trying to be a jerk and I didn't bother reading ahead.

    Sorry all.

  • In future it appears that I have found some boundaries which will cause offence or require defence. I am happy to have learned these boundaries.

    This site is so extensive that I realise I would never have come to realise the sensitivities of the people in the thread unless they revealed them. Yes Hitler now appears to be a stupid citation - but I now know a few things about you thread bears! and the Grizzly's commentating on you as well.

    As to Godwin's Law @dhammachick - it is in no doubt that deeply embedded in the historical and social memory (LEST WE FORGET) that what Hitler did was oh so very wrong, such that when we compare things that are wrong in todays world, the best comparator (and in 50 years time it might be Trump or Putin btw) IS Hitler as it exposes the still raw historical truth that people can lead others to say and do horrible things on behalf of one man.

    Anyway the reverse swastika comparison has been firmly dealt with as being regarded as a non-noteworthy discussion point by @federica, so we should all walk quietly away from this.

    David
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator
    edited January 13

    Moderator Note:

    (in case there was any doubt!)

    Yes, I did say this about 12 posts ago, so why people haven't followed as instructed is a bit puzzling.

    It's like someone saying,
    "ok, I'll be quiet. Won't say a word. I'm a silent as the tomb. You won't hear a peep from me. Honestly? Schtum. I'll zip it. No utterances. Quietly does it. See? Nothing. Not even a whisper. Or a murmur even. Leave it be......

    I would urge those in attendance to read my avatar....

    END OF - !!

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran

    @federica said:
    You're not happy I deleted your rather rude message?

    TFB.

    I don't mind that you deleted it but it kind of bugs me that you lied to the sangha about what was in it.

    That I went after anyone ever for being anything other than a jerk is just a fabrication. I especially wouldn't be attacking anyone for being a woman or a Jew.

    My first wife was native and her family suffered a lot under the Church and my current wife lost her 2 older brothers to starvation in a concentration camp run by Pol Pots thugs. She wasn't around yet but her Mother was there and so the last thing I would do is what I've been accused of here.

    I won't mind if you now delete this too but please don't lie to the sangha about what is in it, ok?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @David, I saw your message that was deleted, and I have to say I found it rather rude as well. There is just no reason to be antagonistic and say things like "Don't like what I said? TFB." Sometimes, there are just things that are misunderstood, especially in online communication. But most often if people are telling you that what you are saying, or more particularly how you are saying it is not coming across well, they are probably right.

  • TiggerTigger Toronto, Canada Veteran

    It's getting hot in here <3

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran
    edited January 16

    @karasti said:
    @David, I saw your message that was deleted, and I have to say I found it rather rude as well. There is just no reason to be antagonistic and say things like "Don't like what I said? TFB." Sometimes, there are just things that are misunderstood, especially in online communication. But most often if people are telling you that what you are saying, or more particularly how you are saying it is not coming across well, they are probably right.

    Yes, and I agree that I didn't have to match for rudeness but to say that what I said was an attack on anyone for being Jewish and/or a woman (they continued to harass me on the Jesus thread) is a flat out lie and incredibly ignorant.

    And sorry but calling rudeness being "salty" is still rudeness.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    I state again:

    I never implied you were attacking dhammachick for being a woman or a jew. I do wish you'd read properly instead of going on the defensive.
    You are not being harassed. You are being brought up for your continued inappropriate comments and argumentative behaviour.

    Please @David, refrain. Seriously.

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran

    Ok, there must be something wrong with my perception.

    I'm going to take a break until I get my sleep problem figured out and a solid inventory of my marbles.

    @dhammachick, I apologize for my lack of manners and wish you well. @federica, sorry for being screwy.

    lobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Moderator

    @David, It's possible something may be amiss for you.
    After all, Sleep Deprivation is a form of torture, and a disrupted sleep is apt to have a very negative impact on a parson.
    I know this for myself, to be true.

    I wish you well and hope there is a resolution to your discomfort.
    Please keep us posted on any (if any) positive development for you.

    lobster
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