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Your Self Is Only A Hallucination

JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

BunksHozanDavidShoshin

Comments

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:
    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

    The label "self" projected by your mind, confusing you with the nature of independence and permanence, is the root cause of all attachment, anger, anxiety, depression, and despair.

    You might even say this misunderstanding is the root of all evil.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    bulk of post deleted.
    I shall set aside the appropriate time to view the video, with much anticipation.

    Thanks.

  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    @David said:
    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

    agree.what makes us tick is half the battle to inform us of our habits and conditionings.we all have our individual aversion,neutral,attachments in our state of mind.

    by the way she gave a nice introduction of the mind.the mind becomes solid interacting with brain neurotransmitters but empty inwardly until the next cointeraction with sense organ stimuli.the mind rest and moves with dharma or phenomenon of the interplay with energy and matter.solid and empty in form--coporial...!...how awemazing.

    David
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Thanks @JaySon - a nice reminder...

    Hozan
  • HozanHozan Veteran
    edited March 6

    @federica why is it called the aspirated "h"? I am familiar with 'an' before a word beginning with 'h' but this is the first time I have learned of its name.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Said the incurable Grammar pedant.
    I am absolutely and sincerely ashamed of this particular OCD.

    Be shameless - sort of inbetween a stripper of letters and a None ...
    Here to help o:)

    I found your post informative, so just think of it as giving info rather than being a grammar dominatrix ... ;)

    ... and now back to self hallucinations ...

    Hozanfederica
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Socair said:
    @federica why is it called the aspirated "h"? I am familiar with 'an' before a word beginning with 'h' but this is the first time I have learned of its name.

    Inspirate = breathing in (when we say we are inspired by someone or something, we mean it gives breath to our existence - you can only last about 15 seconds without being able to breathe [as opposed to purposely HOLDING our breath]).

    Aspirate = breathe out. We 'aspire' towards doing something; in other words, we expend energy and then some, we dedicate ourselves to it, until we're "out of breath" through effort....

    Hozan
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @federica said:
    AN hallucination, I think, may also be easier on the eye/ear.

    (It's a question of the aspirated 'h'. You don't say 'a hour', you say 'an hour', you say 'an' habitual offender, not 'a' habitual offender....)

    Said the incurable Grammar pedant.

    I am absolutely and sincerely ashamed of this particular OCD.

    There's an N there. You're just hallucinating.

    HozanfedericaDavid
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Thank you @federica . Great to learn new things every day. Like @lobster I also found your post informative, so thank you.
    ....and sorry for being such a grump about it in the past. 💚💚

    David
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @JaySon said:

    @federica said:
    AN hallucination, I think, may also be easier on the eye/ear.

    (It's a question of the aspirated 'h'. You don't say 'a hour', you say 'an hour', you say 'an' habitual offender, not 'a' habitual offender....)

    Said the incurable Grammar pedant.

    I am absolutely and sincerely ashamed of this particular OCD.

    There's an N there. You're just hallucinating.

    You have no idea how preferable that would be - !

    HozanDavidJaySon
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 6

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

    The label "self" projected by your mind, confusing you with the nature of independence and permanence, is the root cause of all attachment, anger, anxiety, depression, and despair.

    I agree but that doesn't address my point. The delusion of separation, independence and permanence is the target of dismissal, not awareness and not even the illusory self awareness. Once distinctions are seen for what they are, it is ok to keep using them. Their spell is broken and so their usefulness is clearly seen.

    Mountains are once again mountains and rivers are once again rivers.

    You might even say this misunderstanding is the root of all evil.

    I agree the disease of us and "them" is a big problem and the only reason I take a contrary position here is because of the word "only" in your title.

    The individual self is illusory but is also a handy tool of exploration and could even be as Carl Sagan put it "a way for the cosmos to know itself".

    Self awareness is not a bad thing or a good thing but it has many pros and cons. It is our greatest blessing and our greatest curse but its only really a curse to us until we understand.

    Then it is a tool.

    You used it to help us become more aware by showing us somebody else using it as a tool to help us become more aware of it.

    See?

    JaySon
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 6

    @paulyso said:

    @David said:
    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

    agree.what makes us tick is half the battle to inform us of our habits and conditionings.we all have our individual aversion,neutral,attachments in our state of mind.

    And we each have an unique perspective which means we can all probably get good at something we can all benefit from. It would be a shame to toss it all away just because we had this self awareness thing backwards.

    We need to learn to let go without throwing.

    by the way she gave a nice introduction of the mind.the mind becomes solid interacting with brain neurotransmitters but empty inwardly until the next cointeraction with sense organ stimuli.the mind rest and moves with dharma or phenomenon of the interplay with energy and matter.solid and empty in form--coporial...!...how awemazing.

    Agreed!

    paulyso
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    DavidJaySonlobster
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    I guess one is enlightened and has cut the root of suffering.

    Bear in mind I say essential self and not conventional self. I can type this sentence without an essential self but can't without a conventional self.

    JaySon
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:
    It's actually a pretty handy tool of exploration too.

    An illusory tool but a useful tool.

    The label "self" projected by your mind, confusing you with the nature of independence and permanence, is the root cause of all attachment, anger, anxiety, depression, and despair.

    I agree but that doesn't address my point. The delusion of separation, independence and permanence is the target of dismissal, not awareness and not even the illusory self awareness. Once distinctions are seen for what they are, it is ok to keep using them. Their spell is broken and so their usefulness is clearly seen.

    Mountains are once again mountains and rivers are once again rivers.

    You might even say this misunderstanding is the root of all evil.

    I agree the disease of us and "them" is a big problem and the only reason I take a contrary position here is because of the word "only" in your title.

    The individual self is illusory but is also a handy tool of exploration and could even be as Carl Sagan put it "a way for the cosmos to know itself".

    Self awareness is not a bad thing or a good thing but it has many pros and cons. It is our greatest blessing and our greatest curse but its only really a curse to us until we understand.

    Then it is a tool.

    You used it to help us become more aware by showing us somebody else using it as a tool to help us become more aware of it.

    See?

    I thought that's what you meant, but I wanted to make sure because misunderstanding it would lead to more suffering for all reading this thread. Thanks for clarifying.

  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    Yeah, I'd say it's about destroying the delusion of ego, totally obliterating your misunderstanding of reality.

    person
  • JaySonJaySon Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    Then you know you exist due to dependent arising and there's no self to be found. You see everything as it truly is. There's no basis for attachment or anger or ignorance.

    And you know... You have miracle powers like flying n shit. (just kidding)

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 6

    @person said:

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    I guess one is enlightened and has cut the root of suffering.

    And then what?

    Sorry, I guess I was trying to see if you subscribe to the bodhisattva ideal.

    Bear in mind I say essential self and not conventional self. I can type this sentence without an essential self but can't without a conventional self.

    Its nice to see that distinction made.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited March 6

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    Then you know you exist due to dependent arising and there's no self to be found. You see everything as it truly is. There's no basis for attachment or anger or ignorance.

    Still a basis for showing personal preference though if the story of Buddha's awakening is to be believed. He could have gone in any of the infinite directions when he got up from that tree but he went back the way Sidhartha came... to his old family.

    And you know... You have miracle powers like flying n shit. (just kidding)

    A deep understanding of the logic of compassion would suffice but then we built planes for flying.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think enlightenment is the end of the path

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Rather like going from being engaged, to getting married; not the end of something, rather the continuation with new beginnings...

    David
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Your Self Is Only A Hallucination

    ...And this makes the hallucination an hallucination :) which is non sense to me ;)

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    I guess one is enlightened and has cut the root of suffering.

    And then what?

    Sorry, I guess I was trying to see if you subscribe to the bodhisattva ideal.

    Well, I make prayers that my practice is for the benefit of all and I try to cultivate love and compassion. But if I look at my mind, my actual motivation is mostly for my own well being and benefit. So sure, outwardly I subscribe to the ideal but inwardly I'm very far from it.

    lobsterDavid
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 7

    @person but if you look inside why you want your own benefit and well being what is hidden inside that? Why do you want to feel good and benefit? Is it merely compulsion?

    lobsterDavid
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    @Jeffrey said:
    @person but if you look inside why you want your own benefit and well being what is hidden inside that? Why do you want to feel good and benefit? Is it merely compulsion?

    Thanks, @Jeffrey I do care about my immediate circle and like to think that by letting my own light shine I show and allow others to do the same.

    lobsterJeffreyDavid
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @person said:

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @David said:

    @person said:

    @Jayson said in another thread:

    We Buddhists aim to destroy the ego, which is really only a hallucination to begin with.

    Bringing this line over here because it fits the thread better.

    Buddhists don't really aim to destroy the ego because, as you say, it is only aN hallucination to begin with. Meaning, we don't try to destroy it because there is nothing to destroy. We aim to see deeply that there is no essential self in there to begin with.

    And then what?

    I guess one is enlightened and has cut the root of suffering.

    And then what?

    Sorry, I guess I was trying to see if you subscribe to the bodhisattva ideal.

    Well, I make prayers that my practice is for the benefit of all and I try to cultivate love and compassion. But if I look at my mind, my actual motivation is mostly for my own well being and benefit. So sure, outwardly I subscribe to the ideal but inwardly I'm very far from it.

    In an airplane emergency we need to put on our own oxygen mask first or we may not have the strength to help others.

    You don't know me and probably find me somewhat annoying but please don't kick yourself because your practice doesn't seem altruistic enough. When we try to cultivate love and compassion then to help our self is to help others and to help others is to help our self.

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