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Monks and sex
ClayTheScribe
Veteran
Maybe this is inappropriate or irrelevant to bring up, but I've always been curious to know how young male monks deal with sexual urges and hormones while respecting their vow of chastity? Are they allowed to masturbate, and if not, how do they deal with what are sometimes overwhelming urges in meditation? I suppose there are female monks who go through similar states? So far, I haven't seen or heard much about that aspect of monastic practice in my learning of Buddhism.
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Having sex is considered a root downfall for a monastic, causing them to be dispelled from the order. I think the literal wording is sex with the mouth, vagina or anus, so the abusive monks try to get around that by using the armpit or knee or something.
My knowledge on this isn't very clear so some of that may be wrong.
Gananath Obeyesekere, a Sri Lankan professor at Harvard has published a number of articles on this issue in his country. He's pushing to limit entry into the monastic life to those who are past high-school age:
http://www.infolanka.com/org/srilanka/cult/13.htm On the situation in Tibetan monasteries: http://lamashree.org/dalailama_08_childabuse_tibetanbuddhistmonasteries.htm and recently, this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/09/youtube-confessional-buddhist-kalu-rinpoche
Is it saying that getting someone to discharge your semen is the same as while dreaming or is it saying that getting someone to discharge your semen is the same as doing it yourself and the exception is while dreaming?
Common sense would say that its the latter but the wording isn't completely clear to me.
The article links to the video. Kalu Rinpoche is not just an average monk but supposedly a reincarnation of a much revered high ranking monk -- meaning, if this type of sexual abuse happened to a young monk who was regarded as special, what about those who are not in such a privileged position......
Edit: (Dakini posted this link already while I was typing/finding the story....)
Monks in some Zen sects marry. Whether or not by so doing they expect to forfeit reaching Enlightenment in this lifetime or the next, I don't know.
Too many loopholes.
:-P
Celibacy is part of the whole package, and there are other vows which are much harder to keep.
if you think going without sex of any kind is a huge problem - then it's a huge problem for you.
Not the monk.
funny how the only people who post about celibacy, abstaining from sex, or porn - are men.
I have yet to come across a thread from a woman discussing sexual urges, celibacy or ordination as a nun, and worrying about going without sex.
first worry about the impact of sex, on your own minds, before being concerned about monks.....
why not the only eating before noon?
or not dancing and singing?
or not sleeping on an elevated bed?
or having to dispense with familiar clothing, personal belongings and shaving their hair (i'm generalising now....)
why do men seem to think that celibacy will be such a stumbling block?
1. Contemplation of the body. A body is not beautiful, it is just a bunch of fluid, bones and stuff. It is what we add to it that makes it attractive. In the Visuddhimagga I was reading about this also; the advice was to try and see female bodies as sacks of bones.
2. See all females as your mothers and sisters.
A third one he did not mention, but I remember somewhere in the suttas (and also is quite intuitive):
3. The mind needs an alternative pleasure. What I mean here is the pleasure of the dhamma; of virtue, confidence and meditation. (By the way, this advice was towards a lay deciple, but the same would apply to monks as well. Read the link for some more words on this.)
Other teackers also mention transforming sexual energy into creativity, but I have not found any practical advise on how to do this. If anybody has more information on this, please share
With kindness,
Sabre
the question, is still
'why'...?
to my recollection, i have never seen or heard any evidence of this.
please could you cite or link these 'reliable reports'....?
i am convinced this is an almost entirely male gender based issue.... and as such, a clear indication of how different, gender priorities can be!
Why it is so? Because that's the way people are conditioned, apparently. If you see all the hurt that is done in the world because of sexuality, you can only agree it is wise to consider it appropriately.
Metta,
Sabre
women do not seem so preoccupied with the physical aspect of abstinence and celibacy - the women who had devoted themselves to a lifetime of ordained or committed devotion, that i have spoken to, all claimed that the hardest thing for them to do was to leave their families, loved ones and at times, relationships, and give up on the standard 'trappings' of being a woman.
sex was never mentioned as being missed.
but the togetherness of family, and the identification of womanhood, seemed to be hard to give up.
EDIT; @Sabre hits on the crux of the matter when he mentions 'conditioning'.....
I'm with you on that.....
thanks for the clarification.
It's just interesting to me that it just seems to be such a huge stumbling block for one gender, and apparently not even thought about, by the other.
just because a woman's sexual instinct is more designed around nest & relationship building rather than physical gratification it does not mean the woman's attitude is not sexuality based. men are designed by nature to be ignorant about sex & quick triggered. if they were not, they would have no interest in woman. why would a wise man be interested in a woman? having a woman is like having a daughter. just a psychological dependant plus having to work to look after & protect her children
there are young Christian men who have developed the spiritual path but in the middle age married women, simply out of compassion, because many Christian sects believe this is the will of God. but Buddhist men free of sexuality generally do not do this
trust me dear Fede. buddhist men that are free of sexuality never look at a woman sexually again. they look upon all women as mothers & sisters. so how would it feel if all men attained the buddhist state? a world full of men with no sexual interest in women?
:werr:
I know of two women who have told me they have orgasms just looking at men they find wildly attractive.
.
...also, to say that is a failure of male moral fiber in some way... is a personal issue.