Simple meditation
lobster
Veteran
I have used a variety of so called meditation techniques. Some were concentration, some relaxation, some trance induction.
The most appropriate words or description I would use now are attention, awareness, abiding, presence. The initial inclination to do anything but meditate is very strong in the monkey mind.
Outwardly in formal meditation I still prefer tailor pose, pelvis lifted by cushion, straight back. Dervish meditation does not require a straight back. Also I have used a closed eye practice for a while, though I may return to open eye techniques.
What I still learn from is movement systems of meditation, breath awareness, perseverance, discipline etc. In other words I still value the various previous efforts.
For me the most useful indication of the settled mind is the breath.
Is meditation so simple but complicated by monkey mind? I feel meditation often is the opposite of ease . . .
Is meditation easy for you, suffering, maybe something else?
Comments
I do breathing meditation. Until I get better at it I don't want to try other techniques. Things might get complicated. Yes, my monkey mind gave me lots of frustration at the beginning. After understanding the cause of those frustrations, things got lot easier. Now I just notice it, acknowledge it then let it go.
Simple Meditation.
There's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.
Meditation 'got' overly complicated and full of itself recently.
I've been having aversion to meditation
Not that initial reluctance to meditate (OMG, sit quietly??? No way!!) but . . . well, maybe that's it after all.
I was expecting and not receiving, I'm still a little pissed off, to be honest.
At the same time, I've heard other beginning meditators (a little less than a year for me) have similar issues?
dunno what type of buddhist you are? Mahayana or Theravada? Something aquatic?
Me I am theravada. Personal release is my goal.
There are numerous types of meditation. Breath, Metta, Body, cemetary then the one on dhammas. Awareness on arising and passing. etc.
They are there to practise. Try out and develop. BUT. For me I need to understand what I am doing. Reading, using the onepointed mind to pentrate dhamma puzzles putting the pieces together from direct knowleadge to word in sutta.
You ask what meditation is for me? It is what I make it. I do not feel unease because I do not allow it to arise. Meditation is not sitting down and waiting. It is the balancing of energy and concentration and finding the brightend mind when sleepy... finding the inspiration when stuck ... the concentration when restless... eating when I am hungry.
And meditation is not for the cushion. It is for the life. On the train, at work, in the bus, even drinking beer with friends. (al right you can bring the darn cushion! Just don't spill).
Miyamoto Musashi said around year 1640.
It is important to make the everyday posture the fighting posture and the fighting posture the everyday posture.
Victor says 2014-07-15 .
It is important to make the everyday mind the cultivation mind and the cultivation mind the everyday mind.
Otherwise you will only be a person going to church on sundays. Is that what you want to be doing in your life? Living only on Sundays?
Life is too short my friend.
.
Peace.
/Victor
EDIT: I am just talking about me. I do not imply anything about your practise. Sorry if I seemed to.
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Meditation can be one of the simplest things that there is. In my experience, it's all of the mindstuff that complicates matters. What could be simpler than breathing and letting go?
Thanks guys.
Interesting how it changes or is used, if that is the right word, differently.
We are all beginners @Hamsaka.
Expecting, not receiving and not expecting to . . . wow . . . would that be 'just sitting' . . . way to go gal :clap: .
Another approach I might try is 'giving meditation' or dedicating the sitting . . .
I also liked what Victor said. Personally I do let unease arise and fear and anger, whatever. However I don't get agitated by their arising, passage and leaving/settling.
@Meatball stated this approach well. This is closest to my current practice:
http://shambhalasun.com/sunspace/sit-a-long-with-jundo-shikantaza-zazen-a-madness-to-the-method/
I must admit euphoric hindrances are more present at the moment. Bad cushion! When I say bad . . . I mean that in a good way . . .
More meditation is needed on my part. Cravings is one hell of a beast to fight alone.
This cushion sort of looks like a green maxi pad.
Sorry let me clarify:
Of course there is monkey mind and restlessness and all the rest. The unease I was thinking of is the agitation you are speaking about.
When somewhere else than sitting it is much more difficult to keep the concentration, but on the other hand it is then that the most interesting behavioural patterns arise and you can catch yourself.
No meditation is not simple for me because I make it complicated. But it is lovely because I simply love it.
/Victor
Whats a maxi pad?
m m m, the 'green cushion' is a rocking chair. I have heard of heavy periods but this is ridiculous . . .
Just kiddin...
Oh yeah . . . that would be a great rocking chair! Esp because it looks like a feminine product, I'd want it just for that.
Kia Ora,
A very big apartment that can accommodate lots of people.
..
Metta Shoshin .
..
How strong is motivation? It makes a big difference to me. I take few minutes to generate a good motivation before I start meditation. Usually my eyes fill with tears during this time. It makes me sad that we are all trapped in samsara. Then it makes me so happy because dharma is available.
Of course they do...and for some people that continues to be the case for a long time.
Be adidas wo/man..just do it. Trust the process.
(nike).
that too..: )
Naa your both wrong...its the Force.
Trust the Force
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IPq1Y4tyRC8/TWuC4nU6A9I/AAAAAAAAApI/Sub5KHS2q2U/s1600/Visual-Kontakt-NashmoneySneakerSpeakers-1.jpg
Thanks guys.
I think emotional motivation is a good starting plan. As is study of what meditation is, the benefits, the techniques etc.
The reason I like the 'stillness' models, is they are so simple. Most of us can chill on a holiday deckchair. Watching our thoughts drift by . . . Mention 'meditation' and we stiffen the back, concentrate on the breath, feel worthy, talk about our 'experiences' etc. Meditation = dukkha? Come on . . . The dukkha is there on holiday or cushion. Take a break.
How much more is meditation than chilling out? Not much.
We can incidentally, be internally still in movement for example walking meditation . . .
But isn't seeing the monkey the point of it? Hopefully without going bananas
The course I just did in Vipassana has 3 things you have to do to end suffering.
1) sila or morality
2) samadhi which is concentrating the mind.
3) Panya or wisdom. This is Vipassana.
The idea is that you have to have all three in tow to realise any wisdom. Through this technique.
The Vipassana is feeling sensations on your body. The end goal is to feel every molecule of your body, you then realise both annica and Anatta.
You need your mind incredibly sharp to feel every sensation on your body. That's why you need the samadhi.
I find this technique incredibly tough. Which is why I've had some realisations already through this. It's helped me so much already.
The teacher said that once you can feel every sensation of your body. You have already begun rewiring subconscious reactions which is why we suffer. Once you have experienced the entire field of body and mind you transcend to something beyond that.
I know understand why I need the precepts. To try and sharpen your mind to be able to feel a square cm on any part of your body inside and out is so hard with out a moral basis.
So to the OP, this is the most painful un lofty technique I've tried. But you can see it work straight away in life.
I've got to also meditate for hours a day which is tough.
Nothing worth it is ever easy
Outstanding. Bravo.
Buddhism works. No doubt. :clap: .
To be aware(just knowing) of the arising and passing of phenomenon at the 6 sense doors is mature practice and is sati sampajanna(mindfulness and clear comprehension). However there is another step.
The crucial part is to see their conditionality which is dependent co-arising - ("Such is") which leads to realisation of anatta.
Regards
So how do you develop the samadhi? Or does it come from concentrating on bodily sensation?
@SpinyNorman you use anapanna to sharpen your concentration until you feel sensations below the nostril. Then you move onto Vipassana. As far as I'm aware I only now use mindfulness if breathing to calm my mind but only in the first 10 or so minutes.
Once you can feel sensations on most parts of your body your mind automatically sharpens as you slowly make the area of awareness smaller and smaller
Yes, I see, though doesn't focussing in on bodily sensation lead to samadhi anyway? It's partly a question of terminology, but I see samatha and vipassana as qualities rather than methods, IMO they are really 2 sides of the same coin - so where there is greater stillness there will be greater clarity, and vice versa.
@SpinyNorman yes I believe bodily sensations do lead to samadhi. However as your focus is constantly moving you don't create as much one pointedness leading to Samatha. I've been told it still happens as you progress.
I'd agree it's more like a certain approach to the same thing.
The purpose of Vipassana from an entry level is too see your bodily sensations as your thoughts come up. This is basically observing your subconscious. All blind reactions come from sensations on the sense doors so the idea is you cut the reaction off as it comes in by observing it. It helps when you can actually feel your bodily sensations. Hahah.
Thanks guys,
I like the body sensation tactic. I tend to use a scan and let go method from yoga, similar to
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga-nidra except I am on a cushion, at the beginning of formal practice . . . Sometimes, usually near the end a bit of mantra may arise and is usually indulged in . . .
@Lobster
For me the most useful indication of the settled mind is the breath.
Is meditation so simple but complicated by monkey mind? I feel meditation often is the opposite of ease . . .
Is meditation easy for you, suffering, maybe something else?
Hey Lobster
Easing over on one cheek for a moment of zen speak....
Monkey mind only complicates meditation when one thinks that meditation should somehow be separated from it. Like any arising and passing phenomena, Monkey mind is just the teacher that our meditation has welcomed to show us what our attachments look like. The Meditation practice is simply allowing the "Monkey mind" to be whatever it is, (like any phenomena) and where mindfully not trying to control it is our only job assignment.
A settled or unsettled mind are only two more things to unleash ourselves from,
just as
judging or quantifying our meditation is something that only says that at least in this one moment, we are probably not meditating.
"The essential principle is to maintain presence in the state of the moving wave of the thought itself... If one considers the calm state as something positive to be attained, and the wave of thought as something negative to be abandoned, and one remains caught up in the duality of grasping and rejecting, there is no way of overcoming the ordinary state of mind."
(Chögyal Namkhai Norbu)
Could you elaborate? Are you talking about labelling bodily sensation here?
@SpinyNorman not so much labelling your body sensations, just observing them as sensation. Either gross or subtle.
Feeling them with out judgement.
Example would be a gross painful sensation in the hip. By observing the sensation it destroys a small part of your subconscious reactions to pain. You begin to observe rather than judge that you are in pain.( thoughts)
Same goes with subtle sensations. Often seen as blissful. If you don't judge them then you start to lessen your craving.
Just observing thoughts and sensations as they arise. You begin to understand how your subconscious mind works. The idea is to rewire your subconscious by remaining aware but equanimous.
Hope this helps! I'm just scraping the surface of this stuff.
Yes, that's sometimes referred to as "bare attention". Recently I've just been working with mindfulness of bodily and mental feeling, on an off the cushion - it's a relatively simple approach but maybe there's a lot to be said for that!
Are you involved in an ongoing Goenka group of some sort? I haven't done a Goenka retreat so I'm not sure how it works.
We haz plan . . .
@SpinyNorman it makes sense to me to observe the whole mind and body.
unfortunately I'm not part of a group, people from all ilks seem to come to these retreats.
Ongoing in the sense that most people seem to do more retreats! Or serve at these.
Yes, though it can be quite a lot to keep an eye on.
If you're not already familiar with it, I'd suggest having a look at the Satipatthana Sutta, which is the source for most of these methods:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.than.html
@SpinyNorman , thanks for the link. I recently got a copy of the Visuddhimagga . It has those references. Biiiig book!
Go well bud! And thank you
thanks guys,
Recently been reading the excellent edition 3 of 'meditation for dummies'
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/meditation-for-dummies-cheat-sheet.html
Because it is usually dark when I meditate and because this feels right at present, my eyes are lightly shut. My breath is always a good indication of interior agitation as is very quiet or silent mantra recitation.
I do tend to vary the parameters. For example my teacher who was in waking mindfulness for all the time I knew him and therefore meditation was superfluous, would often sit with his hands open, facing up and resting on his thighs. Such a 'mudra' is more common in yoga. Tried it on the bus the other day as a physical prop/reminder of mindfulness. It is quite open and has aspects of vulnerability in it for me.
Anyway hope the above cheat sheet is helpful for all you budding Buddha buddies . . .
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/mindfulness-for-dummies-cheat-sheet-uk-edition.html
:wave: .
One thing I believe meditation helps with is our ability to feel peace, ease, and happiness. At times it seems as though this feeling creeps up on us even when we're not meditating. I often try share this feeling with those around me. Am I alone I often wonder.
Mediti........................snore.....wha?......(back to the breath)
@ lobster
I suspect that you know that mudra is more than just a prop.
Vulnerability is usually the result when it is practiced publicly and the participant is not willing enough to take responsibility for the potential responses that may arrive from such an open invitation.
Vulnerability is not necessarily a bad thing but I'd only advise such a public practice for practitioners who have had more instruction on how to navigate the mudras than what has appeared on this thread.
In Gassho
Thank you, @lobster, for opening an excellent topic.
This is the main reason I joined this forum! Sitting meditation is a joy and an antithesis to suffering but difficult because of my monkey mind. A quiet place though with very little distraction, except for an occasional dog bark outside. With closed eyes, I can concentrate better but find that at times, I feel sleepy so I usually open my eyes slightly to resettle. Mindfully. Any suggestions?
A technique I tried today for the first time is Walking Meditation. For the past several years, I have walked every morning in the desert but often I encouraged free rambling thoughts. (This was pre-awareness of meditation.) It is an open desert with no roads or traffic, and is surrounded by large mountains, fascinating birds, critters and plants. There is a lot of distraction. Since it is a very familiar landscape for me, today I decided to try walking and meditating, paying attention only to my feet and steps. No closed or unfocused eyes, although I wanted to as the sun greeted me on the horizon. This is not simple because there are a lot of rocks and ground obstructions to avoid. Once on a relatively flat path, I then could concentrate more on my feet while keeping my eyes on my destination.
Is this more mindfulness than meditation?
Kia Ora @Dreds,
Walking, sitting, cooking, eating, Mindfulness "is" Meditation....
Metta Shoshin .
..
@Dreds
Walking meditation (among other things) is an excellent practice to learn how to make the meditative transition from the sitting position into daily activity.
It is the delicate balance of maintaining both a background deliberateness of concentration while also remaining in touch with the functionality of what ever formal style of meditation you are doing.
Remember that there is more going on than just the movement of the feet. All your sense organs ( sight, hearing, smells, taste, body & mind) are continually presenting a continuous stream of info.
If you focus on just one sense gate, then that is concentration.
If you can allow all the data from your senses to freely arise and pass without manipulating them (hanging onto or pushing any away) then that is meditation.
Most of us meditatively dance somewhere in between.
Plus, if you are walking outside, there is also the compassionate aspect of at least making sure that your steps are not unduly hurting anything.
Thanks @Shoshin and @how! I just spent the last couple of hours searching the web for the differences between mindfulness, meditation, mindfulness meditation, zen, visapanna, transcendental meditation, insight meditation, concentration, et.al. I see a definite battle between the Eastern and Western spiritual definitions and the secular ones. I like your explanations better! Because I am so new to this, I guess I needed an affirmation and you both have supported my inner voice. You just verbalized it for me. @how, I take my walks in the early mornings because the days are too hot. Today, I followed it with my sitting meditation, and they both seem so very different, probably because walking is so physical. BTW, stepping on something like a lizard or a horny toad is virtually impossible...they are speed demons and very cognizant of something moving. I have walked that path for 15 years. :wave:
Standing meditation as in Tai Chi. Sleeping on ones feet requires real sleepiness . . .
For sitting, try sitting when least tired, normally the morning, with green tea to sip, or after a shower . . .
Please rethink the concentration, which causes the mind to find a way out, one way out is sloth.
You can also intersperse sitting with walking or chanting . . .
If you just want to sit, then you can use the slight discomfort of half, full lotus or kneeling to keep you awake . . .
Thanks, @lobster. I never thought of myself as slothful, but I think you are right. I am working on the concentration and doing more walking. I just started using a Cosmic Cushion which seems to help too.
You are sitting on stardust . . .
.
Seems like a plan . . .
Breath meditation is underrated it is really good for slowing the system down – after many years of meditation the mind still interferes as it can never be stilled.
On some occasions when doing long meditates if the mind is becoming a problem I stare a blank wall for an hour . I hope this helps good luck!