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I'm reading Ocean of Dharma 365 teachings on living life with courage and compassion, The Everyday Wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa...
And 86 tricks to ace organic chemistry by AceOrganicChem.com
2
Fosdickin its eye are mirrored far off mountainsAlaska, USAVeteran
edited May 2021
I had been contemplating beginning just such a thread as this for some while, but my basement's been flooding, the house been trying to return to the soil, and time has been sadly lacking.
I submit Metazoa: Animal Life and the Birth of the Mind by Peter Godfrey Smith.
. . . focuses on the evolutionary developments that shaped our brains, and no matter how much you think you know about these developments, his book will deepen your understanding . . . ―Elizabeth Marshall Thomas, The American Scholar>
Also, Sediments of Time by Meave Leakey, and Lab Girl by Hope Jahren.
ps - @lobster might like the first book - it's got crustaceans in it.
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I also just finished reading Digging for treasure at Nag Hammadi by Bram Moerland, a book about what we can tell about the gnostics from the papers unearthed at Nag Hammadi in 1945. It is a pity that so little of the gnostic beliefs have been preserved — due to the diligent book-burning by the early Christian church — but it seems to have been a more mystical set of beliefs than Christianity turned into. You get quite a different picture of Jesus from there.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I'm in the middle of Together We Are One by Thich Nhat Hanh. He has so many that I'm usually reading one.
I found a book on a shelf at work that I've been reading a few pages of each day called The 100 Year Old Man Who Climbed Out The Window And Disappeared by Jonas Jonasson.
"Quit and Stay Quit". Not technically a Dharma book. I have a big handful of Dharma books that I'm not sure helped me with much over the course of my path.
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@ShanYin37 said:
"Quit and Stay Quit". Not technically a Dharma book. I have a big handful of Dharma books that I'm not sure helped me with much over the course of my path.
It depends what you think of as help. I’ve read a fair few sutra anthologies, which I wouldn’t immediately say were tremendously helpful but still they showed me a few things that increased my ability to recognise wisdom.
Did you ever find that they help to think and question and analyze skeptically and logically?
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
edited May 2021
@ShanYin37 said:
Did you ever find that they help to think and question and analyze skeptically and logically?
I admired the logic, it fitted well with my scientific training. Some of it was beautiful. But at the same time I found it rather dry. I think modern teachers do a good job injecting more joy into the original texts of the Pali cannon.
But I agree with you, the quality of dhamma books is rather variable, and reading them is always like sifting the mud for dust-flakes of gold. Which is why I have become quite selective and try to pick books where a seam might be found.
An older book that has been sitting on my shelf for some time .. a long-ago Xmas gift (published in 2007, so probably a lot more info since then):
"Train your Mind, Change Your Brain: A groundbreaking collaboration between neuroscience and buddhism" by Sharon Begley, foreward by the Dalai Lama.
A dry, but interesting read.
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I have been reading this…
It’s a wonderful book about a strange world of halls and vestibules and staircases, a giant house which is like a labyrinth, and it’s inhabitant, Piranesi.
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
And of course I’m continuing to read Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s book I Am That.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet by Thich Nhat Hanh.
I read the book "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling the other day. If I had the money, I'd buy a bunch of copies and give them away to everyone I know. But since I don't, y'all are getting just a recommendation
The general argument is that if you look at the most important statistics concerning what matters most to general human well-being - such as lifespan, child mortality, incidence of death from murder, natural disasters, wealth, malnutrition, etc. etc. etc. - then the world has been dramatically improving over the past 200 years pretty much everywhere, regardless of culture, religion or politics.
However, the second argument is, based on polling which he's done, people in rich countries have a whacked and inaccurate picture of the world. They believe that the world is in much more terrible shape than it is. The way he says it is (paraphrased): "when you give people in rich countries multiple-choice questions regarding basic UN statistics, they respond much worse than chimpanzees!" (much worse than random). This holds true for the general population, the rich and powerful in Davos, development and public-health practitioners... everyone!
He provides many statistics in an accessible manner. I studied development studies around 15 years ago (how to help third world countries) and was shocked at the amount of progress in 15 years. Pretty much, in only 15 years, the world has made massive strides, and for the better.
A big part of the book also deals with the mental-errors or faulty reasoning shortcuts we follow to come to faulty conclusions. I found this also very interesting, but would need another reread to really delve more deeply into this.
Anyway, if you're looking for a bird's-eye overview of the development of humans over the past 200 years and could use (for a change) an optimistic look based on hard-data, this might be a very good read.
PS. The argument is NOT that everything is rosy everywhere all of the time. The argument is that it's still bad, but improving rapidly, more rapidly than people think.
2
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited April 2
@marcitko said:
I read the book "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling the other day. If I had the money, I'd buy a bunch of copies and give them away to everyone I know. But since I don't, y'all are getting just a recommendation
The general argument is that if you look at the most important statistics concerning what matters most to general human well-being - such as lifespan, child mortality, incidence of death from murder, natural disasters, wealth, malnutrition, etc. etc. etc. - then the world has been dramatically improving over the past 200 years pretty much everywhere, regardless of culture, religion or politics.
However, the second argument is, based on polling which he's done, people in rich countries have a whacked and inaccurate picture of the world. They believe that the world is in much more terrible shape than it is. The way he says it is (paraphrased): "when you give people in rich countries multiple-choice questions regarding basic UN statistics, they respond much worse than chimpanzees!" (much worse than random). This holds true for the general population, the rich and powerful in Davos, development and public-health practitioners... everyone!
He provides many statistics in an accessible manner. I studied development studies around 15 years ago (how to help third world countries) and was shocked at the amount of progress in 15 years. Pretty much, in only 15 years, the world has made massive strides, and for the better.
A big part of the book also deals with the mental-errors or faulty reasoning shortcuts we follow to come to faulty conclusions. I found this also very interesting, but would need another reread to really delve more deeply into this.
Anyway, if you're looking for a bird's-eye overview of the development of humans over the past 200 years and could use (for a change) an optimistic look based on hard-data, this might be a very good read.
PS. The argument is NOT that everything is rosy everywhere all of the time. The argument is that it's still bad, but improving rapidly, more rapidly than people think.
It sounds like he is making a similar argument to Stephen Pinker in Enlightenment Now. I really enjoyed that one. I may have to check this one out too. The news is a non random selection of the worst things happening in the world, if you take a step back and look at the data and trends the amount of progress we've made is really remarkable.
Right now I'm reading The Constitution of Knowledge (A Defense of Truth) by Jonathan Rauch. I'm only a few chapters in, but its about how we come to decide what is true. So far my takeaways have been objectivity isn't so much an individual effort, though we can make some efforts on that front, but coming to truth is more of a collective, social effort. Like in the scientific process it requires not just experiments, or truth claims, but counterpoints, corrections and refutations from the community. Democracy works much the same way.
Discovering truth also requires some social norms to act as incentives to prevent authoritarian sentiment and dogmatism. Fallibility, that there's no final say, and empiricism, no personal authority. People have to be free to make claims and counter claims without fear of reprisal.
@person I was just in the library and borrowed Pinker's 'Better Angels...'. But upon reading your comment and googling I realized that 'Enlightenment Now' is more recent and more general. So I'll go back and borrow the other one (I'm still very close to the library). Thanks 😃
From reading wikipedia on Pinker (and hearing my leftist friends' comments) it seems to me that Rosling is far less controversial since he does not link the positive changes with anything except increases in GDP p.c.
I'm thinking of writing a parralel book-review of Rosling and Pinker (I think you're right that the general argument is similar) + an analysis of the basic long-term data for Croatia for a local serious website. This is because if you go by the news and what people typically say/think you'd think that Croatia has been dropping like a stone for at least the past 35 years, and probably even much longer, while the real picture is probably precisely the opposite.
Pinker mainly talks about progress from a Western perspective and overlooks how progress can mean different things in different cultures. Also, he doesn't fully consider how colonialism and imperialism have influenced the progress of societies, often leaving out the struggles and contributions of non-Western civilizations.
Moreover, colonial powers often exploited indigenous lands and resources for their own economic gain, without regard for the well-being of indigenous communities. This exploitation led to the dispossession of ancestral lands, disrupting indigenous economies and traditional land management practices. For instance, treaties and agreements negotiated with indigenous peoples were often disregarded or manipulated by colonial governments, resulting in the loss of land and resources vital for indigenous livelihoods.
When discussing progress, it's important to acknowledge these historical injustices and their ongoing impacts on indigenous communities' perspectives on development and progress.
However, in saying this... it's not all bad...
Indigenous movements have successfully advocated for recognition of their land rights and sovereignty. In some countries, legal victories and treaties have been secured, granting indigenous communities greater control over their traditional territories and resources.
In some countries indigenous communities are leading efforts to protect biodiversity, combat climate change, and promote sustainable development practices.
Some Indigenous communities are also gaining greater political representation and participation in decision-making processes. Indigenous leaders are being elected to local, regional, and national offices, advocating for the rights and interests of their communities.
A number of indigenous communities around the world have undertaken efforts to preserve and revitalize their languages, traditions, and cultural practices. Through language immersion programs, cultural festivals, and community initiatives, indigenous peoples are reclaiming and celebrating their heritage.
1
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Pinker mainly talks about progress from a Western perspective and overlooks how progress can mean different things in different cultures. Also, he doesn't fully consider how colonialism and imperialism have influenced the progress of societies, often leaving out the struggles and contributions of non-Western civilizations.
Its been a while since I read the book but he talks about progress globally, not just for the West. I think maybe you mean what qualifies as progress though? I can't list off everything he measures but among them are reduced infant mortality, reduced death by violence, increased literacy, increased happiness, and about 30 metrics in all. Not all of them universal I'm sure, but hardly unique to a Western mindset.
Moreover, colonial powers often exploited indigenous lands and resources for their own economic gain, without regard for the well-being of indigenous communities. This exploitation led to the dispossession of ancestral lands, disrupting indigenous economies and traditional land management practices. For instance, treaties and agreements negotiated with indigenous peoples were often disregarded or manipulated by colonial governments, resulting in the loss of land and resources vital for indigenous livelihoods.
When discussing progress, it's important to acknowledge these historical injustices and their ongoing impacts on indigenous communities' perspectives on development and progress.
A fair point, but I don't know that the book needs to include everything to make an important argument. He shows how the rest of the world is gaining ground and making progress themselves. I think overall though it was coming at a time of increased "doomerism" to use that term, and served as an antidote to a distorted, overly negative view of the world.
While Pinker emphasizes the progress made by humanity overall, including in developing countries, some critics argue that this progress often came at the expense of marginalized and oppressed groups, such as indigenous populations and former slaves.
Scholars such as Indigenous rights activist Winona LaDuke and anthropologist Wade Davis argue that Pinker's analysis overlooks the profound impacts of colonialism and imperialism on indigenous cultures. They suggest that Pinker's focus on Western achievements neglects the diverse perspectives and experiences of non-Western cultures and fails to adequately address the ongoing struggles of indigenous peoples.
Environmentalists like Naomi Klein and Vandana Shiva critique Pinker's optimistic view of progress, particularly regarding environmental sustainability. They argue that Pinker's emphasis on economic growth and technological advancement overlooks the ecological crises facing the planet, such as climate change and biodiversity loss. They suggest that a more holistic approach to progress is needed, one that prioritizes environmental stewardship and social justice alongside economic development
The exploitation of indigenous lands and resources by colonial powers did indeed contribute to the economic progress of those powers, but it often came at great cost to indigenous peoples. They were often displaced from their lands, their resources were depleted, and their cultures were suppressed or destroyed. Similarly, the legacy of slavery continues to affect descendants of enslaved peoples, who face ongoing struggles for equality and justice in many parts of the world.
This highlights the often unequal nature of progress, where advancements for some come at the expense of others.
Much of the economic progress of the colonial powers came about by the exploitation of indigenous lands and resources but the indigenous populations and others such has former slaves didn't benefit as much, they are still having to fight for their rights in many parts of the world...
This brings back memories The Guardian Article from 2021
Outcry as Trump officials to transfer sacred Native American land to miners. As one of its last acts, the Trump administration has set in motion the transfer of sacred Native American lands to a pair of Anglo-Australian mining conglomerates
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Interesting stuff.
I’m currently reading The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, in an effort to bring my mythological knowledge a bit more up to scratch.
@Shoshin, I am going to repeat what I see as your main concerns. Please add to this necessarily brief and very generalised list should you believe that I was unfair in my recapitulation:
_Pinker does not sufficiently take into account either the historical problems or contributions of non-western cultures and indigenous communities, nor the historically detrimental effects of colonialism and imperialism. Development and/or history in one place and/or for some was at the expense of others and/or in another place.
If I was fair in my condensed recapitulation, I believe this is so. You are right. I read three pages of Pinker yesterday and quickly realized that (to my mind) he is doing TMT (too-much-thinking). What I mean is that he is unnecessarily linking the phenomenal statistics/trends in his dataset (and I believe he should be knighted for bringing them to our attention) with "western values" and liberal-democracy. But as I said, I'm just on page three of the book...
Luckily, Rosling does not do that. He just presents the data (again, thank you very much!) and argues it's a consequence of rising incomes. The argument is simpler, cleaner, more/totally humanistic (because it has nothing to do with politics, religion, or culture), and (for me) more optimistic (because the effects and continuation of the trend is more resilient). To take an extreme example, for Rosling, the Iranian ayatollahs did just fine in raising the quality of life of their population as measured by the most basic (and hence most important) statistics.
My most important point when reccomending Rosling's book was to raise awareness about the phenomenal statistics which we can observe for the world during the past 200 years (on which Pinker and Rosling agree). I hope we can agree that they are phenomenal and deeply important.
I suspect that people 200 years ago would not dream in their wildest imaginations of the progress that was made precisely where and for whom it was needed the most and in the most important respects: for the ones least well off, but also for everyone else. Discounting any detrimental psychological effects of inequality, objectively the least well-off today (see below) live better than the best well-off 200 years ago. Crazy? It's true. We generally do not hear about these statistics. The interpretation of why this happened is secondary and maybe different people will have different interpretations. But the facts remain.
Maybe just this video on life-expectancy vs. income would be interesting and indicative of the trends (as @person said, there are dozens of similar videos/trends that can be made for the most basic and hence most important facts of human life globally). I just rewatched it and noticed that the country with the shortest life-expectancy today (or 13 years ago when the video was recorded, today it is even better), Congo, has a higher life expectancy than the longest-living countries 200 years ago (UK/Netherlands). I find that extremely encouraging.
Maybe I stop here.
1
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited April 3
There are still lots of problems in the world and in many respects life is more about tradeoffs than solutions. So a lot of the progress we've made has come at a cost in terms of the environment. I'd argue that exploitation has been a constant throughout human history and isn't a lasting means of building wealth, look at the comparative wealth of northern and southern US, or how many resource rich countries rely on that resource and fail to develop their institutions and people. Saudi Arabia is an example of a country that realizes this and is making explicit investments in this regard. And exploitation still remains a social ill that deserves remedying.
I think the main reason I appreciate the message of Pinker and Rosling's books is this line from @Shoshin's quote
They suggest that a more holistic approach to progress is needed, one that prioritizes environmental stewardship and social justice alongside economic development
In my view they didn't have a very holistic approach to progress until it was pointed out how important economic progress was.
My takeaway is that neither the Pinker side or his critics have a comprehensive view of the best path forward. Its similar to the message of my current book "The Constitution of Knowledge" truth is a collective effort.
Comments
I am reading Osho’s The Mustard Seed, about Jesus and the Gospel of Thomas which is one of the Gnostic texts found at Nag Hammadi in 1945.
I'm currently reading "The True Teaching on Amida Buddha and His Pure Land" by Josho Adrian Cirlea.
I'm reading Ocean of Dharma 365 teachings on living life with courage and compassion, The Everyday Wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa...
And 86 tricks to ace organic chemistry by AceOrganicChem.com
I had been contemplating beginning just such a thread as this for some while, but my basement's been flooding, the house been trying to return to the soil, and time has been sadly lacking.
I submit Metazoa: Animal Life and the Birth of the Mind by Peter Godfrey Smith.
Also, Sediments of Time by Meave Leakey, and Lab Girl by Hope Jahren.
ps - @lobster might like the first book - it's got crustaceans in it.
I also just finished reading Digging for treasure at Nag Hammadi by Bram Moerland, a book about what we can tell about the gnostics from the papers unearthed at Nag Hammadi in 1945. It is a pity that so little of the gnostic beliefs have been preserved — due to the diligent book-burning by the early Christian church — but it seems to have been a more mystical set of beliefs than Christianity turned into. You get quite a different picture of Jesus from there.
I'm in the middle of Together We Are One by Thich Nhat Hanh. He has so many that I'm usually reading one.
I found a book on a shelf at work that I've been reading a few pages of each day called The 100 Year Old Man Who Climbed Out The Window And Disappeared by Jonas Jonasson.
It's a fun romp so far.
My daughter gave me that book ...Yes it is a fun read....
"Quit and Stay Quit". Not technically a Dharma book. I have a big handful of Dharma books that I'm not sure helped me with much over the course of my path.
It depends what you think of as help. I’ve read a fair few sutra anthologies, which I wouldn’t immediately say were tremendously helpful but still they showed me a few things that increased my ability to recognise wisdom.
Suttas and Suttras were something that got me inspired to live life mindfully and peaceably and wisely at the beginning of my journey.
@Kerome
Did you ever find that they help to think and question and analyze skeptically and logically?
I admired the logic, it fitted well with my scientific training. Some of it was beautiful. But at the same time I found it rather dry. I think modern teachers do a good job injecting more joy into the original texts of the Pali cannon.
But I agree with you, the quality of dhamma books is rather variable, and reading them is always like sifting the mud for dust-flakes of gold. Which is why I have become quite selective and try to pick books where a seam might be found.
An older book that has been sitting on my shelf for some time .. a long-ago Xmas gift (published in 2007, so probably a lot more info since then):
"Train your Mind, Change Your Brain: A groundbreaking collaboration between neuroscience and buddhism" by Sharon Begley, foreward by the Dalai Lama.
A dry, but interesting read.
I have been reading this…
It’s a wonderful book about a strange world of halls and vestibules and staircases, a giant house which is like a labyrinth, and it’s inhabitant, Piranesi.
Ajahn Sumedho’s “The Four Noble Truths”
And of course I’m continuing to read Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s book I Am That.
Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet by Thich Nhat Hanh.
They still have books?
Well I never … read that is …
I like to read/study trees, cuts out the middleman …
I read the book "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling the other day. If I had the money, I'd buy a bunch of copies and give them away to everyone I know. But since I don't, y'all are getting just a recommendation
https://www.amazon.com/Factfulness-Reasons-World-Things-Better/dp/1250107814
The general argument is that if you look at the most important statistics concerning what matters most to general human well-being - such as lifespan, child mortality, incidence of death from murder, natural disasters, wealth, malnutrition, etc. etc. etc. - then the world has been dramatically improving over the past 200 years pretty much everywhere, regardless of culture, religion or politics.
However, the second argument is, based on polling which he's done, people in rich countries have a whacked and inaccurate picture of the world. They believe that the world is in much more terrible shape than it is. The way he says it is (paraphrased): "when you give people in rich countries multiple-choice questions regarding basic UN statistics, they respond much worse than chimpanzees!" (much worse than random). This holds true for the general population, the rich and powerful in Davos, development and public-health practitioners... everyone!
He provides many statistics in an accessible manner. I studied development studies around 15 years ago (how to help third world countries) and was shocked at the amount of progress in 15 years. Pretty much, in only 15 years, the world has made massive strides, and for the better.
A big part of the book also deals with the mental-errors or faulty reasoning shortcuts we follow to come to faulty conclusions. I found this also very interesting, but would need another reread to really delve more deeply into this.
Anyway, if you're looking for a bird's-eye overview of the development of humans over the past 200 years and could use (for a change) an optimistic look based on hard-data, this might be a very good read.
PS. The argument is NOT that everything is rosy everywhere all of the time. The argument is that it's still bad, but improving rapidly, more rapidly than people think.
It sounds like he is making a similar argument to Stephen Pinker in Enlightenment Now. I really enjoyed that one. I may have to check this one out too. The news is a non random selection of the worst things happening in the world, if you take a step back and look at the data and trends the amount of progress we've made is really remarkable.
Right now I'm reading The Constitution of Knowledge (A Defense of Truth) by Jonathan Rauch. I'm only a few chapters in, but its about how we come to decide what is true. So far my takeaways have been objectivity isn't so much an individual effort, though we can make some efforts on that front, but coming to truth is more of a collective, social effort. Like in the scientific process it requires not just experiments, or truth claims, but counterpoints, corrections and refutations from the community. Democracy works much the same way.
Discovering truth also requires some social norms to act as incentives to prevent authoritarian sentiment and dogmatism. Fallibility, that there's no final say, and empiricism, no personal authority. People have to be free to make claims and counter claims without fear of reprisal.
@person I was just in the library and borrowed Pinker's 'Better Angels...'. But upon reading your comment and googling I realized that 'Enlightenment Now' is more recent and more general. So I'll go back and borrow the other one (I'm still very close to the library). Thanks 😃
From reading wikipedia on Pinker (and hearing my leftist friends' comments) it seems to me that Rosling is far less controversial since he does not link the positive changes with anything except increases in GDP p.c.
I'm thinking of writing a parralel book-review of Rosling and Pinker (I think you're right that the general argument is similar) + an analysis of the basic long-term data for Croatia for a local serious website. This is because if you go by the news and what people typically say/think you'd think that Croatia has been dropping like a stone for at least the past 35 years, and probably even much longer, while the real picture is probably precisely the opposite.
Things to keep in mind...
Pinker mainly talks about progress from a Western perspective and overlooks how progress can mean different things in different cultures. Also, he doesn't fully consider how colonialism and imperialism have influenced the progress of societies, often leaving out the struggles and contributions of non-Western civilizations.
Moreover, colonial powers often exploited indigenous lands and resources for their own economic gain, without regard for the well-being of indigenous communities. This exploitation led to the dispossession of ancestral lands, disrupting indigenous economies and traditional land management practices. For instance, treaties and agreements negotiated with indigenous peoples were often disregarded or manipulated by colonial governments, resulting in the loss of land and resources vital for indigenous livelihoods.
When discussing progress, it's important to acknowledge these historical injustices and their ongoing impacts on indigenous communities' perspectives on development and progress.
However, in saying this... it's not all bad...
Indigenous movements have successfully advocated for recognition of their land rights and sovereignty. In some countries, legal victories and treaties have been secured, granting indigenous communities greater control over their traditional territories and resources.
In some countries indigenous communities are leading efforts to protect biodiversity, combat climate change, and promote sustainable development practices.
Some Indigenous communities are also gaining greater political representation and participation in decision-making processes. Indigenous leaders are being elected to local, regional, and national offices, advocating for the rights and interests of their communities.
A number of indigenous communities around the world have undertaken efforts to preserve and revitalize their languages, traditions, and cultural practices. Through language immersion programs, cultural festivals, and community initiatives, indigenous peoples are reclaiming and celebrating their heritage.
Its been a while since I read the book but he talks about progress globally, not just for the West. I think maybe you mean what qualifies as progress though? I can't list off everything he measures but among them are reduced infant mortality, reduced death by violence, increased literacy, increased happiness, and about 30 metrics in all. Not all of them universal I'm sure, but hardly unique to a Western mindset.
A fair point, but I don't know that the book needs to include everything to make an important argument. He shows how the rest of the world is gaining ground and making progress themselves. I think overall though it was coming at a time of increased "doomerism" to use that term, and served as an antidote to a distorted, overly negative view of the world.
While Pinker emphasizes the progress made by humanity overall, including in developing countries, some critics argue that this progress often came at the expense of marginalized and oppressed groups, such as indigenous populations and former slaves.
The exploitation of indigenous lands and resources by colonial powers did indeed contribute to the economic progress of those powers, but it often came at great cost to indigenous peoples. They were often displaced from their lands, their resources were depleted, and their cultures were suppressed or destroyed. Similarly, the legacy of slavery continues to affect descendants of enslaved peoples, who face ongoing struggles for equality and justice in many parts of the world.
This highlights the often unequal nature of progress, where advancements for some come at the expense of others.
Much of the economic progress of the colonial powers came about by the exploitation of indigenous lands and resources but the indigenous populations and others such has former slaves didn't benefit as much, they are still having to fight for their rights in many parts of the world...
This brings back memories The Guardian Article from 2021
Interesting stuff.
I’m currently reading The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, in an effort to bring my mythological knowledge a bit more up to scratch.
Bravo tree destroyers.
Here is stuff to read on your non tree derived 'virtual booking' system
https://www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreedomOrganizations
@Shoshin, I am going to repeat what I see as your main concerns. Please add to this necessarily brief and very generalised list should you believe that I was unfair in my recapitulation:
_Pinker does not sufficiently take into account either the historical problems or contributions of non-western cultures and indigenous communities, nor the historically detrimental effects of colonialism and imperialism. Development and/or history in one place and/or for some was at the expense of others and/or in another place.
If I was fair in my condensed recapitulation, I believe this is so. You are right. I read three pages of Pinker yesterday and quickly realized that (to my mind) he is doing TMT (too-much-thinking). What I mean is that he is unnecessarily linking the phenomenal statistics/trends in his dataset (and I believe he should be knighted for bringing them to our attention) with "western values" and liberal-democracy. But as I said, I'm just on page three of the book...
Luckily, Rosling does not do that. He just presents the data (again, thank you very much!) and argues it's a consequence of rising incomes. The argument is simpler, cleaner, more/totally humanistic (because it has nothing to do with politics, religion, or culture), and (for me) more optimistic (because the effects and continuation of the trend is more resilient). To take an extreme example, for Rosling, the Iranian ayatollahs did just fine in raising the quality of life of their population as measured by the most basic (and hence most important) statistics.
My most important point when reccomending Rosling's book was to raise awareness about the phenomenal statistics which we can observe for the world during the past 200 years (on which Pinker and Rosling agree). I hope we can agree that they are phenomenal and deeply important.
I suspect that people 200 years ago would not dream in their wildest imaginations of the progress that was made precisely where and for whom it was needed the most and in the most important respects: for the ones least well off, but also for everyone else. Discounting any detrimental psychological effects of inequality, objectively the least well-off today (see below) live better than the best well-off 200 years ago. Crazy? It's true. We generally do not hear about these statistics. The interpretation of why this happened is secondary and maybe different people will have different interpretations. But the facts remain.
Maybe just this video on life-expectancy vs. income would be interesting and indicative of the trends (as @person said, there are dozens of similar videos/trends that can be made for the most basic and hence most important facts of human life globally). I just rewatched it and noticed that the country with the shortest life-expectancy today (or 13 years ago when the video was recorded, today it is even better), Congo, has a higher life expectancy than the longest-living countries 200 years ago (UK/Netherlands). I find that extremely encouraging.
Maybe I stop here.
There are still lots of problems in the world and in many respects life is more about tradeoffs than solutions. So a lot of the progress we've made has come at a cost in terms of the environment. I'd argue that exploitation has been a constant throughout human history and isn't a lasting means of building wealth, look at the comparative wealth of northern and southern US, or how many resource rich countries rely on that resource and fail to develop their institutions and people. Saudi Arabia is an example of a country that realizes this and is making explicit investments in this regard. And exploitation still remains a social ill that deserves remedying.
I think the main reason I appreciate the message of Pinker and Rosling's books is this line from @Shoshin's quote
In my view they didn't have a very holistic approach to progress until it was pointed out how important economic progress was.
My takeaway is that neither the Pinker side or his critics have a comprehensive view of the best path forward. Its similar to the message of my current book "The Constitution of Knowledge" truth is a collective effort.