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why?

genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
edited March 2011 in General Banter
An internet friend of mine, a fellow who studies Tibetan Buddhism, once wrote on an internet bulletin board, "There are no answers to 'why' questions." You can imagine the cat-calls that that statement elicited. 'Why' is just too popular and just too important and just too common to be brought up short that way: There are no answers to why questions. Saying so makes fools of us all because if there are no answers to 'why' questions, what the hell are we doing running around like two-year-olds asking a new and improved version of "Mommy, why is the sky blue?"

I don't think we need to scorn 'why' questions, but I do think we might want to examine them. Doesn't 'why' call for a 'because?' And doesn't every 'because' nourish a new 'why?' Among the outraged cat-calls, of course, is the fact that human beings are curious and long for control ... it's just human nature...I'll forgive you if you'll forgive me and we'll all get along much better. Something like that?

Why is there so much greed, anger and ignorance in the world? Why did so-and-so treat me so badly? Why aren't more people vegetarians? Why is sex sometimes frowned upon but babies are not? Why, why, why?

As an experiment, I suggest this: Instead of using the word 'why' just substitute the word 'that' or the phrase 'it is true that.' It is true that there is greed, anger and ignorance in the world. It is true that people are kind and nasty. It is true that the sky is blue ... except when it's not. Just try it out. 'That' things happen is every bit as undeniable as knowing 'why' they happen is iffy at best. If you knew the answer to 'why,' what precisely would you know and for exactly how long would it be true?

As a matter of Buddhist practice, I think all this is pretty important. Sure, let us learn what we can from the answers to our 'why' questions, but let's not get stuck in that mud.

None of this means that I think we should all wander around, dumb as a box of rocks. Let's learn as much of we can where we can. Let's collate information and try to determine what makes sense. Let's weep when we're sad and laugh when we're happy. But let's keep an eye on things. Or, as the old Zen teacher Rinzai once put it, "Grasp and use, but never name."

Why? Because the sky really is blue.

Just some noodling.







Comments

  • socrates is the father of philosophy. he admitted that he knew nothing except the fact that he knew nothing.

    so the father of philosophy destroys philosophy, thus they make him drink the hemlock.

    and all of philosophy is built upon this not knowing.

    you can build a house in your mind, but sooner or later you're going to be cold.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Your friend was wrong, Genkaku. Answering "why" questions, one could say, is one thing Buddhism is about. Why is there suffering? See: 4 Noble Truths. And in your friend's Tibetan Buddhism studies, surely he's come across the teachings that explain /why/ people are born into certain circumstances, why some people have good fortunte in life while others don't, etc. I don't understand your friend's perspective. It doesn't make sense. :-/
  • buddhist answer how things happen, not why. buddhist is no different than a science.

    buddhism offers no metaphysical claims. the buddha points with methods. test them. do they work? okay, if they do, then you know what the hell i am talking about. if you don't then drop it and move on.

    why is for philosophers. the how is for scientists.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    why is for philosophers.
    Buddhists are philosophers. What tradition do you follow, Tai? Buddhism is full of answers to "why" questions, especially TB, but also see my earlier comment about the 4Nobles.

  • the four noble truths are an existential claim. the buddha woke up and went holy shit this is how reality really is.
    it isn't a philosophy nor a set of guidelines. it's how the buddha actually saw the world.

    so he gave the eight fold path. notice how right view is the first on the eight fold path.
    he gives a method. he asks you to try it out. and you test it out. okay, i'll try right view. ah four noble truths. this is how the buddha say reality. do i see reality like this? oh, i sometimes do and sometimes don't. okay, what else does he say to do. oh focus on breath. simple as that.

    he makes no philosophic claim, nor does he care about "whys". he only cares about "how". methods. because he wants to save us from our "grasping". you cannot save anyone by giving them a "doctrine" or "philosophic framework".

    yet the mind will always wonder why. why. why. why. why. why. it will never be satisfied because there is no answer to why. the question is invalid. the question stems from mind trying to access reality. how can the mind understand reality. there is nothing to understand. reality is as it is.
  • the buddha is not a philosopher. now buddhists are philosophers.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    The 4 Noble Truths also explain why there is suffering, and what to do about it.
  • 1. Life means suffering. why?

    2. The origin of suffering is attachment. why?

    3. The cessation of suffering is attainable. why?

    4. The path to the cessation of suffering. why?

    or

    1. Life means suffering. how?

    2. The origin of suffering is attachment. how?

    3. The cessation of suffering is attainable. how?

    4. The path to the cessation of suffering. how?

    maybe it is semantics. hmmmm.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Why is there suffering? Because there's attachment. There's attachment why? because of ignorance. Why is there ignorance? Because of clinging to self. Why is there clinging to self? because of a lack of understanding of the true nature of reality. Why is there lack of understanding of the true nature of reality? Because the Dharma is not understood. What is the Dharma? Let me explain.... ;)
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    edited March 2011
    you cannot read your way to enlightenment. thus it is not philosophical.

    you have to explore through meditation. thus it is existential.

    philosophy is nice. but it's a minds game. i'll stick with "hows" and with "science".

    no matter what someone tells me, i take it with a grain of salt, unless it lines up with my own experience.

    i am sure the buddha taught the same thing. he wanted us to examine all these things for ourselves. not follow some "philosophic framework" like drones.

    we're probably both right. considering that is the middle way.

    <3
  • I totally agree that why should not be asked in philosophy, religion, etc.
    Any field, where you can’t come with ‘’objective’’ answer should stop using the word.
    However, to deprive humanity of the word ‘’why’’ - will remove us from advancing in the more practical issues when it comes to this world.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    buddhist answer how things happen, not why. buddhist is no different than a science.

    buddhism offers no metaphysical claims. the buddha points with methods. test them. do they work? okay, if they do, then you know what the hell i am talking about. if you don't then drop it and move on.

    why is for philosophers. the how is for scientists.
    I know what you're saying, but I don't agree. My training is in the geosciences, so I know how science is supposed to work. If you control the variables, every time you do the experiment, the result will be the same.

    Buddhism really doesn't work that way. For example, if we were talking about karma, and I went up and started punching people in the face, there are many different reactions that might occur. One person might punch me back. Another might call the police. Another might try to counsel me. And on and on. So, as a result, while karma may be true, it's not exactly scientific, either.
  • edited March 2011
    you cannot read your way to enlightenment. thus it is not philosophical.

    we're probably both right. considering that is the middle way.

    Yes, I think there's both, and possibly there's a different among the traditions in this regard. TB is full of very complex philosophical texts. It's big on that, so reading does facilitate the path to enlightenment, because it provided a foundation. Also big on answering "why" questions. Why are there some countries that are rich and some are poor? Because there need to be a great variety of conditions in which reborn consciousnesses work out their karma. Why are some people prosperous in this life? Because they were generous in their past lives. Etc. Whether or not "why" should be asked in religion, Tibetan Buddhism's forefathers have gone ahead and elaborated texts that address that very question. It's human to ask "why" and to try to understand circumstances. Vajrayana, or perhaps Mahayana in general, is geared in part to address this fundamental human need.

  • buddhist answer how things happen, not why. buddhist is no different than a science.

    buddhism offers no metaphysical claims. the buddha points with methods. test them. do they work? okay, if they do, then you know what the hell i am talking about. if you don't then drop it and move on.

    why is for philosophers. the how is for scientists.
    I know what you're saying, but I don't agree. My training is in the geosciences, so I know how science is supposed to work. If you control the variables, every time you do the experiment, the result will be the same.

    Buddhism really doesn't work that way. For example, if we were talking about karma, and I went up and started punching people in the face, there are many different reactions that might occur. One person might punch me back. Another might call the police. Another might try to counsel me. And on and on. So, as a result, while karma may be true, it's not exactly scientific, either.

    Forgive a little bla bla from a complete novice of Buddhism.

    In my opinion, Karma is more general then this and working more slowly.
    You can be a total shit this life and have very prosperous life. /plenty examples in a human history/

    Hopefully, in the end all your wrongdoings will catch you up.

    So next time, when you throw the punch remember you might be back as a cow facing electrocution and never seeing a green posture.

    Note, I don’t believe in the reincarnation except our DNA.


    :crazy:
  • PS

    But DNA might work in mysterious ways if you take into the account the whole universe and different realms.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2011
    and all of philosophy is built upon this not knowing.
    the buddha did not teach philosophy. the buddha taught about the characteristics & causality of things

    the buddha called not-knowing 'avicca'; 'a' = 'not'; 'vicca' = 'knowing'

    the buddha regarded 'vicca' as 'true knowledge' or the mind of enlightenment

    the word 'buddha' itself means 'the one who knows' rather than 'the one of unknowing'

    :)

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    DNA is very interesting. They've discovered that when a generation suffers famine or other hardship, it alters the genome, and dysfunctional physiological reactions to food or stress get passed down to future generations. The granparents' karma gets encoded.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2011
    you cannot read your way to enlightenment
    true

    but enlightenment is not the mind of unknowing

    enlightenment is the direct experience of what is written in the books

    :)
  • you cannot read your way to enlightenment
    true

    but the enlightenment is not the mind of unknowing

    enlightenment is the direct experience of what is written in the books

    :)

    Books?

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    The suttras, the Lamrim, books explaining in-depth Buddhist principles, emptiness, commentaries on the suttras, etc.
    Books?

  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2011
    @genkaku

    when one learns personal counselling, generally, one is instructed to never to use the word or ask the question "why?"

    the buddha himself generally asked the questions: "what is the condition for this?"; "what is the cause of this?"

    the buddha, generally, did not ask: "why?"

    :)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    @genkaku

    the buddha himself generally asked the questions: "what is the condition for this?"; "what is the cause of this?"
    I know a "why" when I hear one. And this is a "why".

  • Answering "why" questions, one could say, is one thing Buddhism is about. Why is there suffering? See: 4 Noble Truths.
    the 4 Noble Truths ask the question: "what?" rather than "why?"

    :D
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    They answer the question, "Why is there suffering"? (Is this really so difficult to grasp? It's the 3rd time I've posted this here. :rolleyes: )
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2011
    I know a "why" when I hear one. And this is a "why".
    "why?" is the childish kind of questions described by @genkaku

    "why?" is the plea or cry of ignorance

    when the mind is grounded in buddhist principles, it asks the question: "what is the cause, what is the condition?"

    it does not ask "why?"
    How come there's a sun?
    Why's a person, why's a tree?
    Why are birds so high? How come they're in the sky?
    Why's a tree? Why's a person just like me?

    God knows

    :dunce:





  • DNA is very interesting. They've discovered that when a generation suffers famine or other hardship, it alters the genome, and dysfunctional physiological reactions to food or stress get passed down to future generations. The granparents' karma gets encoded.
    Don’t you ever wonder?

    Few proteins and molecules caring all those information for millions of years.

    In the moment we know that atoms, electrons, quarks etc - exist. The rest is down to theoretical assumptions. / I totally agree with them. /

    However, there is a huge field of ‘’ reality’’ which we can’t even touch with what we call: ''advanced science''.

    What is there? Nobody knows.

    I give it to Buddha.

    He had wisdom or a gut feeling. Whatever it was, he has my full respect.


  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    "What is the cause & condition" is the same as "why", just dressed up in fancier language. You can't fool me. ;)
  • An internet friend of mine, a fellow who studies Tibetan Buddhism, once wrote on an internet bulletin board, "There are no answers to 'why' questions." You can imagine the cat-calls that that statement elicited. 'Why' is just too popular and just too important and just too common to be brought up short that way: There are no answers to why questions. Saying so makes fools of us all because if there are no answers to 'why' questions, what the hell are we doing running around like two-year-olds asking a new and improved version of "Mommy, why is the sky blue?"

    I don't think we need to scorn 'why' questions, but I do think we might want to examine them. Doesn't 'why' call for a 'because?' And doesn't every 'because' nourish a new 'why?' Among the outraged cat-calls, of course, is the fact that human beings are curious and long for control ... it's just human nature...I'll forgive you if you'll forgive me and we'll all get along much better. Something like that?

    Why is there so much greed, anger and ignorance in the world? Why did so-and-so treat me so badly? Why aren't more people vegetarians? Why is sex sometimes frowned upon but babies are not? Why, why, why?

    As an experiment, I suggest this: Instead of using the word 'why' just substitute the word 'that' or the phrase 'it is true that.' It is true that there is greed, anger and ignorance in the world. It is true that people are kind and nasty. It is true that the sky is blue ... except when it's not. Just try it out. 'That' things happen is every bit as undeniable as knowing 'why' they happen is iffy at best. If you knew the answer to 'why,' what precisely would you know and for exactly how long would it be true?

    As a matter of Buddhist practice, I think all this is pretty important. Sure, let us learn what we can from the answers to our 'why' questions, but let's not get stuck in that mud.

    None of this means that I think we should all wander around, dumb as a box of rocks. Let's learn as much of we can where we can. Let's collate information and try to determine what makes sense. Let's weep when we're sad and laugh when we're happy. But let's keep an eye on things. Or, as the old Zen teacher Rinzai once put it, "Grasp and use, but never name."

    Why? Because the sky really is blue.

    Just some noodling.


    I think he also mentioned examine to see if the answer is necessary to live ie practically is it necessary now is it just theoretical. If it is just theoretical, it can be said to be a false question.

    This is just my own interpretation of what I read and I don't know if I agree with it, have not looked into it that much (smiles)


  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    @genkaku

    the buddha himself generally asked the questions: "what is the condition for this?"; "what is the cause of this?"
    I know a "why" when I hear one. And this is a "why".

    Correct, Dhamma Dhatu is accidentally getting caught up in semantics.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Correct, Dhamma Dhatu is accidentally getting caught up in semantics.
    Definitely not.

    When we ask "why", our speculative answers could be myriad, such as "God", "past life", "fate", "destiny", "no cause/good luck/bad luck", etc,...

    As a Buddhist, one asks: "What is the tangible, here & now, identifiable causes & conditions".

    Asking "why" does not fall within the sphere of Buddhism.

    Best wishes

    :wow:
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    "Why?"

    "Why not."
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Begets looking for answers in the wrong places.

    :)
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Sorry. Does not pass.

    :)
    Did not intend it to.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Then why write something without conviction? Do you struggle with conviction & decisiveness??

    :confused:
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Actually quite the opposite. When I have an interesting thought or musing that I feel is relevant to the topic in any shape or form, I'll post it. Expect me to chime in on multiple topics, even though it seems like I might not make much sense.

    TL;DR - I speak what I think and feel, nothing more, nothing less.
  • Expect me to also chime in on multiple topics, even though it seems like I might not make much sense (to you or others).

    :lol:
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited April 2011

    Asking "why" does not fall within the sphere of Buddhism.
    This is inaccurate. "Why" is well contained within Buddhism. We cut the false notion that some external force drives the "why"... and we notice that what and why collapse into a clear understanding of the DO. There is no mystic "why", which is what you might have been attempting to relate.

    "Why is there suffering?" has the exact same answer as "What causes suffering?". There is no impetus external to the process. Attachment/craving is why suffering exists. "Why is there attachment/craving?" Has the same answer as "What is attachment/craving?" Ignorance. We notice that there is no external drive to the cycle. Like children learning to write, we mess up, we learn, we become skillful and then we transcend the ignorance. There's no mysterious "why does it happen" where there is knowledge of "what is happening". Its all there.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Correct, Dhamma Dhatu is accidentally getting caught up in semantics.
    Definitely not.

    When we ask "why", our speculative answers could be myriad, such as "God", "past life", "fate", "destiny", "no cause/good luck/bad luck", etc,...

    As a Buddhist, one asks: "What is the tangible, here & now, identifiable causes & conditions".

    Asking "why" does not fall within the sphere of Buddhism.

    Best wishes

    :wow:
    You have every right to have your viewpoints. I often agree with your viewpoints. But, personally, I don't appreciate it when you talk down to people.
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