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My Pet Dog

meh_meh_
edited April 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I had a dream last night - which I don't remember a good deal of, in which I was talking to my dog's previous birth. Obviously this is a dream - but it did make me think:
1) How is an animal reborn? How does karma work with animals - some animals act on instinct alone.
2) Also - what do people use as the explanation for rebirth? I've heard monks and teachers online talk about it - so they obviously believe it to be true. The Buddha said not to just accept something - but to investigate for yourself. How does one investigate this?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    The different realms are taken to be allegorical.

    http://buddhism.about.com/od/tibetandeities/ig/Wheel-of-Life-Gallery/Animal-Realm.htm
  • meh_meh_
    So then what is an animal?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    It's a sentient being with basic instinctive behaviour that can at times be channelled to demonstrate a capacity for compassion, unusual in the animal world. it is thought by some that when an animal shows a behaviour which would seem to put the well-being of another to the fore, that the animal has attained a level of consciousness suitable for it to be reborn within the human realm.

    Emphasis on the "It is thought"......
  • meh_meh_
    Im never sure what I think on the matter - I mean, we have no proof of rebirth do we, yet many people assume it.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Many people think on the matter and decide whether they feel the Buddha's teachings on rebirth are acceptable to them or not.

    There is also no proof against it, but everyone is their own judge of that.

    There are already two threads going on belief/non-belief in reincarnation.
    Is it your intention to now start a third....? :)
  • meh_meh_
    Thankyou for your replies federica - and no I don't ill join one of the other threads in existance xD
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Any time.
    But as with everything - check it out for yourself - don't take my word for it. :)
  • tesstess
    So then what is an animal?
    I don’t know and have to believe that this is my selfish attachment.

    I keep buying the food for my dog which probably could feed 2 African villages /with their problems/ for a year.

    Do I feel guilty YES but........!

    PLs free to add to my ......


  • tesstess
    It's a sentient being with basic instinctive behaviour that can at times be channelled to demonstrate a capacity for compassion, unusual in the animal world.
    .
    You be surprised how many animals show ‘’compassion’’ behavior.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No, actually, I wouldn't. Being a Dog behaviourist, I'm sure many do.
    It's just far more uncommon in the animal realm than it is in the human realm>
    Though I know which one I find more admirable.....
  • tesstess
    Could not agree more.

    However, human compassion’’ is very superficial and animals not having human ‘’cortex’’ are more limited in the social ‘’ show off’’.

    In the end of the day, you know where you stand with them and their motivations and ‘emotions’ are much truthful and genuine.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    exactly.
    No baggage, no agendas, no ulterior motives, no problem.....
  • tesstess
    Are you saying that I should look forward to become my dog?

    Any time.

    Sometimes during my conversations about Buddhism, I said to my friends:

    Reincarnation, pls. But I would like to reborn as my pet.
    :coffee:
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    edited April 2011
    “The most important aspect of ant behavior is that they act for the good of the community without thought for their own safety.”

    http://www.helium.com/items/1226622-ant-behaviour

    Ants are capable of being unselfish.
    Ants probably will outlive humans, by far.

    We should all seek rebirth as ants, probably :D
  • tesstess
    edited April 2011
    “The most important aspect of ant behavior is that they act for the good of the community without thought for their own safety.”

    http://www.helium.com/items/1226622-ant-behaviour

    Ants are capable of being unselfish.
    Ants probably will outlive humans, by far.

    We should all seek rebirth as ants, probably :D
    I never thought about it but you are spot on.

    Ants display the ultimate compassion.

    I just wonder why in the process of the evolution of consciousness they are so delayed on the tree...

    HMMM, you have just added a huge obstacle for me to try understand the ‘reality’’

    I don't know -skould I say: Thank you or hate you. :confused:

    :D
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    edited April 2011

    I don't know -skould I say Thank you or hate you. :confused:
    :D
    My pleasure.
  • tesstess

    I don't know -skould I say Thank you or hate you. :confused:
    :D
    My pleasure.
    LOL pleasure to :confused: or :banghead:



    ;)
  • meh_meh_
    lol, to understand the reality - one more obstacle will not make a lot of difference tess :P
  • tesstess
    lol, to understand the reality - one more obstacle will not make a lot of difference tess :P


    Lol in my case it is more :banghead:
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2011
    In mahayana buddhism part of a definition of a bodhisattva is that they realize that all beings may become buddhas. Non-bodhisattvas do not realize this so it is no surprise that this sounds unreasonable, but the idea is to consider and practice with an open mind. A dog is considered a being and therefore a dog may also become a buddha. This implies rebirth is non-psychological. Or at a higher level (see the reincarnation thread my post about levels) on the nature of ultimate reality a dog already has buddha nature. Remember the heart sutra says that there is no attainment. A dog has merely forgotten its own nature and is caught up in thinking, but it can snap out of this and the buddha qualities are only distorted in the dog due to grasping the sense desires. The definition of a buddha is 'awake' to the true nature. Turning towards reality and not shying from it. It doesn't matter what physiology or brain. Though in this birth a dog doesn't have the tools to practice the dharma. My teacher says that the entirety of buddhas teachings is skillful means to allow us to trust our nature and turn towards it.

    Let me ask you. Do you feel that enlightenment is an intellectual attainment? Must one write a theisis to become enlightenemd :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    true nature of reality. the true nature of the self would be that it is not stained with 'other' from the shentong point of view, and thus is not compositional constituted of parts.
  • tesstess
    In mahayana buddhism part of a definition of a bodhisattva is that they realize that all beings may become buddhas. Non-bodhisattvas do not realize this so it is no surprise that this sounds unreasonable, but the idea is to consider and practice with an open mind. A dog is considered a being and therefore a dog may also become a buddha. This implies rebirth is non-psychological. Or at a higher level (see the reincarnation thread my post about levels) on the nature of ultimate reality a dog already has buddha nature. Remember the heart sutra says that there is no attainment. A dog has merely forgotten its own nature and is caught up in thinking, but it can snap out of this and the buddha qualities are only distorted in the dog due to grasping the sense desires. The definition of a buddha is 'awake' to the true nature. Turning towards reality and not shying from it. It doesn't matter what physiology or brain. Though in this birth a dog doesn't have the tools to practice the dharma. My teacher says that the entirety of buddhas teachings is skillful means to allow us to trust our nature and turn towards it.

    Let me ask you. Do you feel that enlightenment is an intellectual attainment? Must one write a theisis to become enlightenemd :)
    In mahayana buddhism part of a definition of a bodhisattva is that they realize that all beings may become buddhas. Non-bodhisattvas do not realize this so it is no surprise that this sounds unreasonable, but the idea is to consider and practice with an open mind. A dog is considered a being and therefore a dog may also become a buddha. This implies rebirth is non-psychological. Or at a higher level (see the reincarnation thread my post about levels) on the nature of ultimate reality a dog already has buddha nature. Remember the heart sutra says that there is no attainment. A dog has merely forgotten its own nature and is caught up in thinking, but it can snap out of this and the buddha qualities are only distorted in the dog due to grasping the sense desires. The definition of a buddha is 'awake' to the true nature. Turning towards reality and not shying from it. It doesn't matter what physiology or brain. Though in this birth a dog doesn't have the tools to practice the dharma. My teacher says that the entirety of buddhas teachings is skillful means to allow us to trust our nature and turn towards it.

    Let me ask you. Do you feel that enlightenment is an intellectual attainment? Must one write a theisis to become enlightenemd :)


    Quite opposite to your last two sentences.

    I think it brings suffering.
    One of the reason is that human intellectualism has huge obstacle – limitation of our brain.

    The next step: emotions. / at least in my opinion also : the product of our brain, neurotransmitters and hormones/

    You have introduced the terms ‘’Buddha qualities’’ dharma etc.


    They are in my opinion products of reasoning and emotions- with all the limitations.

    When it comes to pets:

    I really love my dog. At the same time, I think why don’t I spend the same money to feed hungry children in Africa?

    My dog is not very well since being a puppy. The amount of love and money I have spent / no way I am going to say IT/ on him could make a huge difference to many humans.

    I know and feel this.

    However, I still look after him and not after humans who need it more.


    I am sure; many of you will call an attachment.

    You will call a love an attachment.

    However, how on my stage on evolution I can aim on compassion to all?

    PS.

    Even an average Buddhist monk has an attachment to his beliefs and uses layman to look after his daily needs.
  • tesstess

    Don’t also say:


    Mediate and meditate.....


    If I do, my family will go hungry and many humans would not have a medical my expertise. /Who cares it was my karma our my privilege upbringing?/

    Don’t also say:

    This is their Karma

    Cos Karma might be the product of human intellectualization and emotions.


    Pls don’t let me also gamble on it. LOL
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2011
    regarding to loving children or your dog, I think the 'results' have relational exchange value with opportunity cost. That would be compassion and you need to be skillful and consider things. But the ultimate nature beyond appearances and yardsticks, love is an uncovering of those buddha qualities which in which all is included; when you are loving in your meditation all is included.

    Love Jeff
  • tesstess
    regarding to loving children or your dog, I think the 'results' have relational exchange value with opportunity cost. That would be compassion and you need to be skillful and consider things. But the ultimate nature beyond appearances and yardsticks, love is an uncovering of those buddha qualities which in which all is included; when you are loving in your meditation all is included.

    Love Jeff

    I only understand half of your post.

    To start you have lost me here:

    ''have relational exchange value with opportunity cost''


    You have also said :

    ''and you need to be skillful and consider things''

    When it comes to the subject of this tread - what do you mean?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2011
    "I really love my dog. At the same time, I think why don’t I spend the same money to feed hungry children in Africa?"

    I was resonding to the above. The care of the dog has an opportunity cost that you couldn't donate that money to the hungry and that time towards adopting a child. Compassion is skillfully assessing situations but it isn't black and white right and wrong. The second I didn't articulate. You have to consider yourself and if you are unable (emotionally) to give money to the hungry then it is better alternative to pay vet bills to a dog (you emotionally accept) than to pay for a hooker. Again no black and white for some person their consciousness (no judgement) may pay for a hooker and that is where they are.

    But compassion requires skill and wisdom. As well as feeling.

    I wasn't saying you were unaware of this I was just expressing myself. Thinking outloud.
  • JBrodyAJBrodyA
    My ex and I always said we wished we were cats, we had to who were very compassionate towards each other, and had much less problems than humans do, although they face death earlier I think that they live without suffering as it is. Ants are good too, I have seen one have its leg broken and its rear third almost completely ripped off, but I watched it put itself back together. pretty cool stuff. Although, ironically to my situation the male cat keeps leaving the house after the female had kittens, and wont show up for days on end...very suspicious if you ask me, maybe even promiscuous.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2011
    I don't know if anyone knows this, but Jean Claude Van Damme, for all his posturing and bravado, makes it his mission to collect abandoned and stray dogs wherever he finds them, on his travels. This means that he has dogs from all over the world, and has a pretty big custom-made home for them.
    He absolutely adores and dotes on his dogs, and physically misses them when he's not with them. He's a kind and considerate man, and always - but always - makes time for his fans whenever he's out and about, and stops to pose for photos, and signs autographs, and it often makes him late or delayed for whatever he's in the process of doing. But he explains that without these people, he is a geeky nobody from Belgium....
    And if he spots a stray, abandoned or homeless dog anywhere (especially in oriental and eastern countries) he nabs and homes it.
    THis must cost him a lot, both in time and effort.
    not to mention money.....
    The dogs are loved, fed and exercised and it's clear they also love him.
    The interaction he has with them is very touching.
    He found it extraordinary and bizarre that some cultures believe that if you have led a poor life in this life, you will come back as a dog in the next.
    First of all, he thinks dogs are often way better than humans - and secondly, this is why he rescues them. because even the "lowest of the low" deserves love, affection, compassion and attention.

    Nice man. :)

    http://www.musicrooms.net/showbiz/20780-jean-claude-van-damme-i-help-dogs-in-need.html
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    The different realms are taken to be allegorical.

    http://buddhism.about.com/od/tibetandeities/ig/Wheel-of-Life-Gallery/Animal-Realm.htm
    By you perhaps, but by others - i am thinking of Tibetan Buddhism in particular - these realms can be taken literally.

  • DazzleDazzle

    By you perhaps, but by others - i am thinking of Tibetan Buddhism in particular - these realms can be taken literally.

    Here's an example of the realms interpreted as different mental states which we can experience daily - in a course at a Tibetan Buddhist monastery.

    http://www.samyeling.org/index/samyeling-course-action?id=142&course_title=The+Six+Realms+of+Experience
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