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the basic purposes of the two religions is not the same.
Vinlyn I would agree. I would suggest the underpinnings of all religions are quite different: Buddhism: Cessation of suffering. Christianity: The forgiveness/atonement of sin Islam: Submission to God. Judaism: Reunification with God. They may share similar views concerning love and compassion, but the foundations and how one proceeds are quite different. As an aside, here is a question: I feel that one can be a Christian and take up certain parts of the Buddhist path. But can one start out as a Buddhist and take up Christianity with it's permanent ideas of self and a creator? How does one cobble that together with Dukkha, Anatta, and Anicca? All the best, Todd
My sharing is...all religions speaking a truth lest you. For example - Buddhism: Cessation of suffering. - suffering ceased truth emerges Christianity: The forgiveness/atonement of sin - sin of unforgiveness eradicated - truth emerges. Islam: Submission to God - Submission reaches equalibrium, truth emerges. Judaism: Reunification with God - once you reunified completely with God - only God and truth emerges...haha :wow:
I think that many people integrate their own ideas and beliefs into their spiritual practice, whatever they might label it. They borrow some aspects from one religion, some from another philosophy, and remove aspects they don't agree with. I try to see the common ground between different religions, rather than focusing on the differences.
@b5C - Didn't Buddha say "life is suffering"? No matter what religion one follows we're all human and we all suffer. Christianity is not about suffering and it's not just about how Jesus died for our sins. That is what most people believe but that is not the core message. It is about the messages Jesus taught, how we are all divine. Jesus taught us to look within to find God.
My first Zen teacher used to say, "All paths don't lead to the same place, but we are all lost in the same wilderness."
Buddhism and Christianity are not the same, no, but here's where I might step on some toes. Most Buddhists and Christians are the same, and for most people, it doesn't make a bit of difference if they go to a temple or church. It doesn't matter if they pray to Jesus or meditate on the sixth chakra. They have the same motivations, the same desires, and get the same results from the experience.
I have some lifelong friends who are Evangelical Christians, and count some of them as the most compassionate, unselfish people I know. I've met Buddhists who are among the most opinionated, egotistical people I don't want to know. Both groups are active, passionate believers and their religion is a big part of who they are.
So what gives? Well, from what I can figure out, people get out of a religion what they bring to it, magnified. Religion can be a life transforming practice that requires effort and self-examination and a desire to change, in order to live up to its call for a better life and world. That's more than you can ask of most people, Christian or Buddhist. Addiction to desire is a tough habit to break.
So Buddhism has its Precepts and Noble Truths, and Christianity has its 10 Commandments and Golden Rule. And most people of the world in both religions think that's all it has to offer, and fail miserably to get the point. They're too busy painting the tribal markings on their face and yelling about how their tribe is best and everyone should join their group.
why can't it all be true the whole issue is what is being taught. the bible hold rules and laws. but when Christ came in the picture, He taught to love, the two commandments he set for the new day is to love God and love others, and if you love why would you sin against them. we are not all perfect that is what the belief in Christ is. and what did Buddha teach? wasn't it love to end the suffering, to find peace. to be whole with in. the paths of both men I believe lead to something great, just MY salvation is in Christ for Buddha said he is not a god.
why can't it all be true the whole issue is what is being taught. the bible hold rules and laws. but when Christ came in the picture, He taught to love, the two commandments he set for the new day is to love God and love others, and if you love why would you sin against them. we are not all perfect that is what the belief in Christ is. and what did Buddha teach? wasn't it love to end the suffering, to find peace. to be whole with in. the paths of both men I believe lead to something great, just MY salvation is in Christ for Buddha said he is not a god.
There is no rule against following the teachings of Buddha and Jesus both. If you want to talk about the differences between the religions, of course there are many differences. But, Buddhists across the world manage to incorporate more than one religion into their lives all the time. It is not Buddhism that has the big problem with it, because we're not an exclusive religion. We don't claim to hold the patent or be the only way to enlightenment. We see the struggle as one of curing a disease of the mind we all have, not fighting a war against evil. To us, suffering is self-inflicted and what matters is that we stop doing it to ourselves, not how you get there.
It's hard for Christians to incorporate any other religion into their practice, but not because Buddhists really care if you believe in Christ's salvation along with following the 8-fold path. But if you go on a Christian board, you'll certainly get a much different response.
Christianity(as the modern-day religion) isn't about just Jesus Christ either, and it isn't just about Love. Sure, Jesus is a part of the big picture, but modern day Christianity has teachings and doctrines and dogma based in many different parts of the Bible.
Since somebody mentioned the "Lord, Lord, Have we not" quote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves... Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them... Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evil doers!'"
Paul began as an anti-Christian, yet became a cornerstone of modern day Christianity. Funny how that works out. Quite honestly, I believe Paul was far from the image of Christ and his teachings. I point out Paul because he has a lot of weight in modern-day Christian doctrine.
When I was still a Christian (if you could even call it that), these are the things I used or would have like to have seen used in my belief (and I can still use some of it outside of believing in God): Ten Commandments, sin through action, forgiveness through man for transgressions against him, forgiveness through God for transgressions against God, prostration, simple church with private prayer, prayer focuses on spirituality and not worldly gain, love your neighbor, love God, Jesus is not Son of God (unitarian), and other humanitarian beliefs.
I really don't believe in all of Christian Orthodoxy as you can tell. But this is my opinion, and everyone has their own. I do not hate Christianity, but I do differ in my views about it from the mainstream.
I only felt the need to share my views on Christianity because others were sharing theirs. I don't mean any offense, and I'm not arguing against anybody, merely explaining my own position. This post was much longer, and then I realized I was rambling, haha.
Do not accept any of my words on faith, Believing them just because I said them. Be like an analyst buying gold, who cuts, burns, And critically examines his product for authenticity. Only accept what passes the test By proving useful and beneficial in your life. The Buddha
Paisartly, Thank you for the vid, very nice. I was of the opinion that in recent times christianity was losing its way with it's demogogic war driven president, myopic positions about people, it's focus on the end of the world and very little about the love and compassion Christ expoused. These are just my perceptions. That being said one can truely appreciate the goodness inherent in this tradition. I had an incident at work the other night. A homeless man can in and essentially he wanted to eat, so we fed him. One of the security guards asked me what would I do if he returned and wanted to eat, I said I would feed him. He asked what if he came back again, I said I would feed him. The guard seemed dismayed. I asked him what would Jesus do? He said that he would say "get a job!" I suggested Jesus would feed the man. Maybe there is work to do in helping this man quit his substance abuse and maybe eventually find work, but right now he is hungry. I see so little comapasion and charity in many who say they follow Christ. It would do my heart good to see others follow his example. Just my thoughts and opinion, not any kind of an argument Todd
@the swing is yellow, no mostly Christians are dumb they fight for who worships right when it is working on who you are that fit this world. christian forget who they need to repentance, they think they are working for God when they turn from those in need, I am sorry to all of you people who have feared the Christian world because of those people and just hope your eyes are open to see we all are just seeking truth.
@b5C - Didn't Buddha say "life is suffering"? No matter what religion one follows we're all human and we all suffer. Christianity is not about suffering and it's not just about how Jesus died for our sins. That is what most people believe but that is not the core message. It is about the messages Jesus taught, how we are all divine. Jesus taught us to look within to find God.
Yet, Jesus said it required you to believe that Jesus is god and suffering can only end through believing ONLY in him. Anything else does not end suffering.
Also many apologetics oppose mixing Buddhism and Christianity.
These are from a very popular apologetics website:
"
What about mixing Buddhism with Christianity?
Question: I have a friend who was raised in a Christian home, who recently became entrapped by the Buddhist lifestyle and refers to himself as a Christian Buddhist are there any resources that you could recommend for me to reach him. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before I talk with him about his claims and his beliefs. He's really into it, he teaches meditation classes at a local martial arts club and I'm all for the martial arts but not the new age mixing of Buddhism w/ Christianity. Please help.Thanks, Gary
Answer: Two of the best resources that make a clear distinction between Christianity and world religions such as Buddhism are “Jesus Among Other Gods: The Absolute Claims of the Christian Message,” written by Ravi Zacharias, and “The Universe Next Door: A Basic Worldview Catalog,” by James Sire. Zacharias examines the truth claims of Jesus Christ and the exclusivity of the Christian message against the messages of other faiths, while Sire lays the philosophical foundations that undergird every worldview and then analyses the major religions and the solutions they offer to each worldview category/question. Ray Yungen, author of “A Time of Departing,” and “For Many Shall Come in My Name,” and Warren Smith, author of “The Light That Was Dark,” and “A Wonderful Deception,” demonstrate that eastern meditative practices are not harmless as many Christians insist but are instead dangerous dabbling with occultism. You also may try such online resources as Probe Ministries, which has several informative pieces on the subject, as well as Leadership U which also has many good articles on Buddhism. Source"
"Quote: Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish disciples don't have to adhere to Christianity: "The I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherence to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many(not all!)circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many "Christian" religious context, either."6
Apologist comment: When you have a lax and inaccurate view of Christianity, you mistakingly we conclude that those in anti-Christian religious systems can remain in those systems while following Jesus. Not true. Jesus requires that we abandon everything and follow him. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism are incomplete and insufficient. They need to be abandoned when coming to Christ. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 And a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers,"
Quote: Learn meditative practices from Buddhism: “Western Christianity has (for the last few centuries anyway) said relatively little about mindfulness and meditative practices, about which Zen Buddhism has said much. To talk about different things is not to contradict one another; it is, rather, to have much to offer one another, on occasion at least.”8 Apologist comment: How can McLaren dare to suggest that Christians be enlightened by an antichrist religion such as Buddhism? Is McLaren serious? What else in Zen Buddhism does he approve of? Aren't the Scriptures sufficient in themselves to give us all that we need to find God and grow in our experience with them or more must return to false religious systems for help? http://carm.org/brian-mclaren-quotes-ignorance-bliss-theology "
Apologist comment: How can McLaren dare to suggest that Christians be enlightened by an antichrist religion such as Buddhism? Is McLaren serious? What else in Zen Buddhism does he approve of? Aren't the Scriptures sufficient in themselves to give us all that we need to find God and grow in our experience with them or more must return to false religious systems for help?
Wow that is really sad The worst part is that it's clear that this person has made no attempt to understand Buddhism, nor does it seem that they want to; they've come to their own conclusions from misinformation :shake: Very unfortunate.
But really... antichrist religion? I love Jesus. I imagine him to be a bodhisattva. I have no problem with Christian beliefs, just the pushy and intolerant parts.
You really expect a page that starts off saying someone has "became entrapped by the Buddhist lifestyle" to give anything but a hateful, distorted attack on what Buddhism really is? The person asking and answering (probably the same person) thinks other religions are antiChrist and as usual offers no evidence other than their religion is true and everyone else is false, because they said so.
But that is absolutely no different from telling a Christian that their Christianity is anti-Buddhist because they claim salvation is only through accepting Christ. The Apologist leave a bad taste in your mouth? Then examine your own beliefs. For some people, like the Apologist, Christianity is antiBuddhist and antiHindu and antiLiberal and antiAnything that doesn't fit their version of the religion. But the fact that someone posting on the board is both Christian and Buddhist tells us that it's not always true.
Last I checked, the Buddha did not preach salvation. Neither did he preach against it. He preached the cause of Suffering and the elimination of Suffering. You want to accept Christ and be saved? That's good. But, even the saved can follow the 8-fold path and eliminate suffering in their lives.
@Cinorjer thank you , cuz far as I see i was raised christian and to full understand it i study Buddhism about centering your self, the christians are crazy trust you me i have an aunt who well @mugzy I am sorry is you or anyone came across a christian of control. the idea Christ came for us is to end suffering, some chritians think we need to suffer to prove our love, but what is real is to not cling to the world.....Christ told a rich man if he wanted to enter heaven to give his riches to the poor and to follow christ. Christ wasn't saying we need to be broke but not to cling to the things of this world. as a buddhist Christian I really find peace and wholeness when I worship God, from what I know Buddha never said there was a god, it not wrong then to believe in one if it is for my own, yours, or any ones salvation. so understand being a christian well is to be christ like, so please don't listen to those who seem tot slam the bible at you. i believe in talking about God then talk but I am never a bible thumper to say your all gong to hell, Because what the hell do I know, I am not a judge.
"The Lotus and The Cross" by Ravi Zacharias is a fiction book about if Jesus and Buddha had a conversation. It is undoubtedly Christian and critically looks at the Buddhist faith through the Christian lens. It's an apologetic's look at Buddhism. If anything you could almost call it an outreach book. Something a Christian would give a Buddhist to try to bring them to the Christian path.
I haven't read it, but I plan on reading it. Christians love it, and Buddhists hate it. That always makes me curious.
Martin Luther King once observed more or less, "It's not what's wrong with the world that scares people. What really scares them is that everything is all right."
well what is truth, Christ was asked this with Pilate at the trail before his death He said "I was born and entered the world so that I could witness to the truth. Everyone who cares for truth, who has any feeling for the truth, recognizes my voice." and Pilate ask what is truth. after that there was no answer. Pilate went to the crowd and said he finds no fault in Christ, is that truth that Christ is our reason to live in heave that those who believe in him though they sin they are free, so what is truth. the idea we live we die, and nothing after that, or is there a greater reason for it all. the fact that we find peace in what ever we believe and what ever we stand for that gives reason.
Here is a recent article from the Vancouver Sun. The last bit from the author (highlighting was in the original) is a little confusing to me. Admittedly I don't know much about Pure Land Buddhism, but I never heard of Amida Buddha being heralded as a "real" being before. In any case it's an interesting piece.
The world's second most famous Buddhist is heading to Vancouver this summer with a message that may resonate among West Coast residents, who are on the front line of blending Western and Asian spiritualities.
Vietnamese Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh, a peace and environmental activist second only to the Dalai Lama in global renown, doesn't want all North Americans to become Buddhists.
Thich Nhat Hanh, author of scores of books, is happy if Christians remain Christians, Sikhs stay with Sikhism and atheists hold onto secular humanism.
However, the 84-year-old monk urges all people to engage in inter-spiritual dialogue. He believes it will strengthen their commitment to their own founders' authentic teachings.
While Buddhists make up one of the fastest-growing religions in B.C., self-described Christians remain the largest cohort - comprising about 54 per cent of the provincial population, according to the last census.
But many West Coasters who identify as Christians are casual about it. They may believe Jesus had a special relationship with God, but many don't bother to show up often to church to explore such teachings.
Nhat Hanh - who will lead a five-day retreat at the University of B.C. Aug. 8 and give a public lecture at the Orpheum Aug. 14 - reached out to Christian searchers and the wider spiritual community in his bestselling 1997 book, Living Buddha/Living Christ.
In Nhat Hanh's accessible writing style, Living Buddha/Living Christ describes similarities between the life and teachings of Gautama Buddha and those of Jesus of Nazareth.
Both Buddha and Jesus, Nhat Hanh says, were contemplatives.
Both were wisdom teachers who had transformative experiences in their early 30s.
Both began renewal movements in their own traditions, Hinduism and Judaism.
Both taught ways to respond creatively to life's temptations and sufferings.
Both are considered exalted, if not divine.
Nhat Hanh is not the first to emphasize connections between Buddha and Jesus.
So did Hanh's old colleague Thomas Merton, the late American Catholic monk who was deeply influenced by Buddhism and who has a strong following in Vancouver.
Noted University of Oregon Bible scholar Marcus Borg is another who has joined Nhat Hanh in highlighting Buddhist-Christian similarities. His book is Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings.
Since Nhat Hanh is a celebrated meditation teacher, one of the first things his followers stress is how both Buddha and Jesus practised "mindfulness."
In anxious North America, mindfulness is a meditation style through which practitioners avoid distraction by becoming more aware of the present moment, and more calmly engaged in the world.
Nhat Hanh compares Buddhists who practise mindfulness to Christians who yearn to embody the holy spirit, which they believe is God's healing presence.
Mindfulness points to a mystical overlap between the two traditions.
"When we understand and practice deeply the life and teachings of Buddha or the life and teachings of Jesus, we penetrate the door and enter the abode of the living Buddha and the living Christ and life eternal presents itself to us," Nhat Hanh writes in Living Buddha/Living Christ.
In addition, Nhat Hanh emphasizes that Buddha and Jesus ran counter to today's me-first individualism: Both stressed the value of community and sacred meals.
Nhat Hanh's suggestions about how the teachings of Buddha and Jesus often dovetail may not satisfy theologically conservative Christians, who believe Jesus is the only son of God and the exclusive route to heaven.
Nevertheless, that has not stopped Nhat Hanh from saying Buddhists can be open to the mystical eucharist, in which Christians ingest the blood and body of Jesus in an act of cosmic interconnectedness.
Another compelling writer on the subject of Buddhist-Christian relations is American religion professor Jay McDaniels, a Christian who has practised Zen meditation for decades and taught several times in Vancouver. He is becoming an influential figure in China.
McDaniels' website, wittily titled www.jesusjazzbuddhism.org (logo left), includes many references to Nhat Hahn, while offering evocative entry points for anyone wishing to learn more about the promising parallels between Buddhism and Christianity.
In an online conversation with an admittedly "nervous" evangelical friend, McDaniels writes about how one need not fear the key Buddhist concept of "No Self," which teaches humans have no static, substantial selves.
"No Self" proposes there is no enduring essence to humans as we journey from birth to death. Or, as McDaniels says: "We never step in the same river twice, and we who do the stepping are never quite the same either. This is really good news. It means that, even if we have made mistakes in the past, we are never doomed by our pasts."
God, says McDaniels, is always with us in the flux of life, luring us to goodness and beauty. McDaniels knows a Roman Catholic nun who embraces the concept of "No Self." She says: "Christianity and Buddhism agree that spiritual pilgrimage involves an absolute letting go, or dropping away, of all that a person knows of self and God."
Another Western port of entry into Buddhism comes from an extremely busy advertising agent, who happens to meditate. She tells McDaniels she is drawn to Buddha and Jesus because they were not bent on amassing wealth.
Buddha and Jesus inspire the marketing executive to tone down her drive to achieve and keep up appearances, and instead focus more on helping others and delving into deeper realms.
In addition, McDaniels, who is inspired by mathematician-philosopher Alfred North Whitehead, writes about a Methodist physicist who values the "spirit of enquiry" in Buddhism. "For her a religious orientation must 'make sense' intellectually."
Troubled that some churches discourage questioning, the curious Christian physicist believes Buddhism will help her develop a nondogmatic approach to religion, which will lead her to a more compelling Christianity.
In addition, McDaniels points to another profound connection between Buddhism and Christianity, which tends to be found beyond the more intellectual world of Zen Buddhism, as practised by Nhat Hanh.
Zen does not propose the existence of a God. But the same cannot be said of Pure Land Buddhism, which is the largest branch of Buddhism in East Asia. Pure Land Buddhism speaks of a divine reality, called Amida Buddha, which is akin to the one embraced by Jesus.
It may be a surprising piece of common metaphysical ground. Says McDaniels: "Pure Land Buddhists speak of a heavenly Bodhissatva - Amida Buddha - who receives and listens to prayer, and who is filled with love. I believe that what Christians mean by 'God' is similar to what Pure Land Buddhists mean by 'Amida Buddha."
Does Pure Land Buddhism believe Amida created the universe and man? Also, 'God' isn't only love. God has many human characteristics. Wrath, sadness, love, anger, etc. I don't know enough about Amida to know if there is a similarity between Amida and God.
What I've read so far: Amida is considered the ultimate reality. The expanse of all consciousness. One pure awareness. Within Amida, there is a constant flux in which beings arise, but are never permanent. There is no eternal self, no individual I. We can only return to the pervading awareness. All things vile and evil are a part of this ultimate reality.
This... this is nothing like God. God is a single entity under which we were created, and thus, we are to worship him/her/it. In heaven, our eternal lives should be spent in worship of God because he is deserving of it. Also, he is not attributed with wickedness, but righteousness. Not with sin, but purity. Not with malevolence, but with retribution. Amida is all these things because Amida is everything.
I'm sure some Pure Land/Shin Buddhist knows more about this than I do. This is just what I got from a few minutes of reading.
It sounds similar to something I read.
THIS IS NOT BUDDHISM OR ANYTHING, JUST FICTION: Everything is a part of one eternal consciousness, writhing and twisting and non-constant. It has no shape, no definition, no single color, no one idea, no anything. However, once a part of this conscious solidifies itself by thinking a thought, attaching itself to it, the consciousness separates itself. Just how emotions are more expansive than the word we cram them into or the thought, this consciousness imprisons itself. This consciousness is less than the whole it came from, and it is only through struggle that it frees itself from its self-made prison.
Hi Yishai, it isn't, the universe and man are not created by Amida in a logical sense. Amida's name was Dharma Store who realized that the pure mind of all beings and buddha has the ability to develop into pure, good and bad karma, so Dharma store practiced purely having an unsurpassed vow of its Buddha land, as an expediency of achieving Suchness for all living beings. Dharma store then encompassed the meritorious deeds into a name known as Amida so that beings who vow and chant upon its meritorious name or actually your own name would be liberated upon last breath on earth. Nonetheless, in the definition of Amida as pure mind, it can create universe and man upon defilement arises, neither from the beginning nor ending. And practically all living beings fell into this category, lest they realize Amida and love to live harmoniously and peacefully. :wave:
Simonthepilgrim; I thoroughly enjoyed your earlier posts. Thank you for closing some gaps. I think what we are underneath it all is soul, and the challenge is how to get there.
Simonthepilgrim; I thoroughly enjoyed your earlier posts. Thank you for closing some gaps. I think what we are underneath it all is soul, and the challenge is how to get there.
This is correct, the greatest challenge in human existence is getting there-supreme buddha nature. :wave:
B5C, not that its any of my business, but I wouldn't be with such a woman.
Well I love her and she loves me. She thinks I am going to hell because that is what she has been brought up with. She does it out of fear.
It is wise and loving to recognise her fear, and, perhaps, to understand how we fear the separation that death appears to bring about. We may approach our fear of a loved-one's death in many ways: how do you deal with the reality of her death, @B5C? Both Christianity and Buddhism invite us to consider death in new ways, and, in some schools, to envision it as a transformation or a transition.
This says it all. Thank you, @paisartly, Bro. David is one of my true heroes, an inspiration when I feel discouraged and always good for a chuckle or two.
I am constantly astonished by those who demand "freedom of conscience" or "freedom of religion" but then get their chuddies in a twist when some of us actually choose to exercise that freedom in our own lives and practice.
If we truly want to discuss "£Buddhist Christianity" or "Christian Buddhism", should we not be sharing how each informs the other, rather than denying they exists.
Reminds me rather of my grandmother who said to me, on one occasion, as we passed a Poor Clare sister in the street, "I don't believe in nuns."
As Bro. David says, I find great treasures in Christian literature and some sh*t, too, but all turns to fertiliser if I treat it right. It is the heritage with which I grew up and it shaped who I am. To ignore it would be as foolish, to me, as to believe it is the only "narrative".
I believe that freedom of religion is highly important, but this upset me today, the anniversary of the arrival of Christianity to my Island, which basically involved a mass slaughter of Heathens was celebrated by the Christian community. I do not understand the celebration of killing people who believed in Pagan gods. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14060669
I believe that freedom of religion is highly important, but this upset me today, the anniversary of the arrival of Christianity to my Island, which basically involved a mass slaughter of Heathens was celebrated by the Christian community. I do not understand the celebration of killing people who believed in Pagan gods. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14060669
The wrathful god. Some Christians feel that non-Christian life is inferior. However, not all of them do. I'm sorry they celebrate the slaughter of a people where you live @Weird_Artist.
Do not accept any of my words on faith, Believing them just because I said them. Be like an analyst buying gold, who cuts, burns, And critically examines his product for authenticity. Only accept what passes the test By proving useful and beneficial in your life. The Buddha
Follow the path(s) that make sense to you.
I don't mean to be a stickler, I'm truly curious. Is there a sutric reference for this? It sounds like someone's paraphrasing of the Buddha's teachings.
A devout Christian who practices compassion and generosity will be the one laughing in the end, as compared to a "Buddhist" that only treat it as a philosphical hobby that still thinks like a punk rocker.
Buddha and Christ were the same being sent to two different cultures at two different times each using the most appropriate lens (their theology)through which to teach the Truth to the people they were trying to reach. Ultimately they are symbiotic to each other as are all the agents of compassion throughout history. Unfortunately both were appropriated by institutions who twisted their Love to serve their own more destructive ends and as a result the message has been diluted to the point of total incomprehension and confusion. But their example lives on as evidence that their's is a goal that can be reached and that because human beings share a mutual destiny with one another (everything is connected, everyone is one being), we shall all (as a collective) eventually understand what it was that these early Apex's of human evolution came to impart to their brothers and sisters for the cause of Love as Truth.
I agree with you MindGate. I would probably still be christian now tho, except a while ago i stopped believing in God, so looked for an alternative, & as i went to a Buddhist centre as a kid and always found it interesting, & after finding out more about it, realized that it fit much better with my beliefs.
Also realized that in times of need when i prayed to God, & something went right, i assumed it was God, but actually most times it was my actions changing the situation not God.
A devout Christian who practices compassion and generosity will be the one laughing in the end, as compared to a "Buddhist" that only treat it as a philosphical hobby that still thinks like a punk rocker.
You said it! It's all in the practice, all in how you treat others, and yourself, not in how many empowerments you've collected, or advanced techniques you've learned. It's a heart practice, as well as scripture study.
A devout Christian who practices compassion and generosity will be the one laughing in the end, as compared to a "Buddhist" that only treat it as a philosphical hobby that still thinks like a punk rocker.
I have long felt that religion is much like music or language. Each culture develops it's own, language but they all serve the same purpose. Each develop their own music. We cannot really say one music is better than another, but still some music will speak to us, other music won't. I love the Beatles and Classical music. I loathe teen pop, hip hop, and death metal. However I am a music teacher, and many of my students want to learn those styles of music. I therefore can see the value of each form of music (well I"m not quite there with hip hop yet ) I am not "right" in liking the Beatles, and a 12 year old girl is not "wrong" in liking Bieber or Miley. I am not "right" in loving Bach, and a 15 year old boy is not "wrong" in liking Slipknot. But we sure do see a lot of people running around saying their music rules and other music sucks.
The next paragraph won't probably be too relevant to most, because it is from a Pure Land perspective...sort of.
So there is a very famous quote in Christianity: "I am the way, the truth, and the light. no man goes unto the Father except by me" Often this quote is used by Christians to point out the exclusivity of their religion. However to me this misses the point. The first part of the quote is connected to the second part of the quote. He doesn't say "I am Jesus Christ, Son of God, flesh and blood guy walking around on earth...no man goes unto the Father except by me". Instead he defines himself not as a single albeit half-God person, but as the qualities of Truth, the Way, and Light. So no person goes to "God" except by way of truth, the way, the light. Now in Pure Land Buddhism we have the Nembutsu: Namu Amida Butsu in Japanese. I think that there is a strong connection between the Nembutsu and the quote from Jesus. Namu = I take refuge in, to me equates to the "I am" in Jesus words. Amida = Amitabha - Infinite LIGHT, Amitayus - infinite life (the WAY or Tao) Butsu = Buddha-perfectly awakened to the TRUTH.
Now granted I am doing some interpretation and not following any fundamentalist ideas, but to me essentially Jesus (historical or mythological) was saying the Nembutsu, and praising it as a path to the ultimate. "Be still and know that I am God" similarly to me is the Bible praising Meditation as a path to the ultimate.
Most (not all) people in Jodo Shinshu see Amida not as a personal God-like being, but rather as a symbol of enlightenment itself. So I feel that if we view thusness as personified, or formless is not really a problem unless we decide our interpretation alone is better than other interpretations.
What I can say for sure though is this. I am Jodo Shinshu Buddhist with very strong Soto Zen influences. My sister is Roman Catholic, but not fundamentalist by any means. We don't disagree on religion hardly ever (and we talk about it often). So I do think there is room for some level of compatibility so long as we are not being fundamentalist about it, or too attached to the forms, myths, and practices that move us, to be able to see the deeper meaning and unity with other forms, myths and practices.
Comments
Buddhism: Cessation of suffering.
Christianity: The forgiveness/atonement of sin
Islam: Submission to God.
Judaism: Reunification with God.
They may share similar views concerning love and compassion, but the foundations and how one proceeds are quite different.
As an aside, here is a question:
I feel that one can be a Christian and take up certain parts of the Buddhist path. But can one start out as a Buddhist and take up Christianity with it's permanent ideas of self and a creator? How does one cobble that together with Dukkha, Anatta, and Anicca?
All the best,
Todd
For example -
Buddhism: Cessation of suffering. - suffering ceased truth emerges
Christianity: The forgiveness/atonement of sin - sin of unforgiveness eradicated - truth emerges.
Islam: Submission to God - Submission reaches equalibrium, truth emerges.
Judaism: Reunification with God - once you reunified completely with God - only God and truth emerges...haha :wow:
Buddhism and Christianity are not the same, no, but here's where I might step on some toes. Most Buddhists and Christians are the same, and for most people, it doesn't make a bit of difference if they go to a temple or church. It doesn't matter if they pray to Jesus or meditate on the sixth chakra. They have the same motivations, the same desires, and get the same results from the experience.
I have some lifelong friends who are Evangelical Christians, and count some of them as the most compassionate, unselfish people I know. I've met Buddhists who are among the most opinionated, egotistical people I don't want to know. Both groups are active, passionate believers and their religion is a big part of who they are.
So what gives? Well, from what I can figure out, people get out of a religion what they bring to it, magnified. Religion can be a life transforming practice that requires effort and self-examination and a desire to change, in order to live up to its call for a better life and world. That's more than you can ask of most people, Christian or Buddhist. Addiction to desire is a tough habit to break.
So Buddhism has its Precepts and Noble Truths, and Christianity has its 10 Commandments and Golden Rule. And most people of the world in both religions think that's all it has to offer, and fail miserably to get the point. They're too busy painting the tribal markings on their face and yelling about how their tribe is best and everyone should join their group.
It's hard for Christians to incorporate any other religion into their practice, but not because Buddhists really care if you believe in Christ's salvation along with following the 8-fold path. But if you go on a Christian board, you'll certainly get a much different response.
Since somebody mentioned the "Lord, Lord, Have we not" quote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves... Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them... Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evil doers!'"
Paul began as an anti-Christian, yet became a cornerstone of modern day Christianity. Funny how that works out. Quite honestly, I believe Paul was far from the image of Christ and his teachings. I point out Paul because he has a lot of weight in modern-day Christian doctrine.
When I was still a Christian (if you could even call it that), these are the things I used or would have like to have seen used in my belief (and I can still use some of it outside of believing in God): Ten Commandments, sin through action, forgiveness through man for transgressions against him, forgiveness through God for transgressions against God, prostration, simple church with private prayer, prayer focuses on spirituality and not worldly gain, love your neighbor, love God, Jesus is not Son of God (unitarian), and other humanitarian beliefs.
I really don't believe in all of Christian Orthodoxy as you can tell. But this is my opinion, and everyone has their own. I do not hate Christianity, but I do differ in my views about it from the mainstream.
I only felt the need to share my views on Christianity because others were sharing theirs. I don't mean any offense, and I'm not arguing against anybody, merely explaining my own position. This post was much longer, and then I realized I was rambling, haha.
Believing them just because I said them.
Be like an analyst buying gold, who cuts, burns,
And critically examines his product for authenticity.
Only accept what passes the test
By proving useful and beneficial in your life.
The Buddha
Follow the path(s) that make sense to you.
Namaste
Thank you for the vid, very nice. I was of the opinion that in recent times christianity was losing its way with it's demogogic war driven president, myopic positions about people, it's focus on the end of the world and very little about the love and compassion Christ expoused. These are just my perceptions. That being said one can truely appreciate the goodness inherent in this tradition. I had an incident at work the other night. A homeless man can in and essentially he wanted to eat, so we fed him. One of the security guards asked me what would I do if he returned and wanted to eat, I said I would feed him. He asked what if he came back again, I said I would feed him. The guard seemed dismayed. I asked him what would Jesus do? He said that he would say "get a job!" I suggested Jesus would feed the man. Maybe there is work to do in helping this man quit his substance abuse and maybe eventually find work, but right now he is hungry. I see so little comapasion and charity in many who say they follow Christ. It would do my heart good to see others follow his example. Just my thoughts and opinion, not any kind of an argument
Todd
no mostly Christians are dumb they fight for who worships right when it is working on who you are that fit this world. christian forget who they need to repentance, they think they are working for God when they turn from those in need, I am sorry to all of you people who have feared the Christian world because of those people and just hope your eyes are open to see we all are just seeking truth.
These are from a very popular apologetics website:
"
What about mixing Buddhism with Christianity?
Question: I have a friend who was raised in a Christian home, who recently became entrapped by the Buddhist lifestyle and refers to himself as a Christian Buddhist are there any resources that you could recommend for me to reach him. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before I talk with him about his claims and his beliefs. He's really into it, he teaches meditation classes at a local martial arts club and I'm all for the martial arts but not the new age mixing of Buddhism w/ Christianity. Please help.Thanks, GaryAnswer: Two of the best resources that make a clear distinction between Christianity and world religions such as Buddhism are “Jesus Among Other Gods: The Absolute Claims of the Christian Message,” written by Ravi Zacharias, and “The Universe Next Door: A Basic Worldview Catalog,” by James Sire. Zacharias examines the truth claims of Jesus Christ and the exclusivity of the Christian message against the messages of other faiths, while Sire lays the philosophical foundations that undergird every worldview and then analyses the major religions and the solutions they offer to each worldview category/question.
Ray Yungen, author of “A Time of Departing,” and “For Many Shall Come in My Name,” and Warren Smith, author of “The Light That Was Dark,” and “A Wonderful Deception,” demonstrate that eastern meditative practices are not harmless as many Christians insist but are instead dangerous dabbling with occultism. You also may try such online resources as Probe Ministries, which has several informative pieces on the subject, as well as Leadership U which also has many good articles on Buddhism.
Source"
"Quote: Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish disciples don't have to adhere to Christianity: "The I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherence to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many(not all!)circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many "Christian" religious context, either."6
Apologist comment: When you have a lax and inaccurate view of Christianity, you mistakingly we conclude that those in anti-Christian religious systems can remain in those systems while following Jesus. Not true. Jesus requires that we abandon everything and follow him. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism are incomplete and insufficient. They need to be abandoned when coming to Christ. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 And a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers,"
Quote: Learn meditative practices from Buddhism: “Western Christianity has (for the last few centuries anyway) said relatively little about mindfulness and meditative practices, about which Zen Buddhism has said much. To talk about different things is not to contradict one another; it is, rather, to have much to offer one another, on occasion at least.”8
Apologist comment: How can McLaren dare to suggest that Christians be enlightened by an antichrist religion such as Buddhism? Is McLaren serious? What else in Zen Buddhism does he approve of? Aren't the Scriptures sufficient in themselves to give us all that we need to find God and grow in our experience with them or more must return to false religious systems for help?
http://carm.org/brian-mclaren-quotes-ignorance-bliss-theology
"
But really... antichrist religion? I love Jesus. I imagine him to be a bodhisattva. I have no problem with Christian beliefs, just the pushy and intolerant parts.
But that is absolutely no different from telling a Christian that their Christianity is anti-Buddhist because they claim salvation is only through accepting Christ. The Apologist leave a bad taste in your mouth? Then examine your own beliefs. For some people, like the Apologist, Christianity is antiBuddhist and antiHindu and antiLiberal and antiAnything that doesn't fit their version of the religion. But the fact that someone posting on the board is both Christian and Buddhist tells us that it's not always true.
Last I checked, the Buddha did not preach salvation. Neither did he preach against it. He preached the cause of Suffering and the elimination of Suffering. You want to accept Christ and be saved? That's good. But, even the saved can follow the 8-fold path and eliminate suffering in their lives.
as a buddhist Christian I really find peace and wholeness when I worship God, from what I know Buddha never said there was a god, it not wrong then to believe in one if it is for my own, yours, or any ones salvation. so understand being a christian well is to be christ like, so please don't listen to those who seem tot slam the bible at you. i believe in talking about God then talk but I am never a bible thumper to say your all gong to hell, Because what the hell do I know, I am not a judge.
I haven't read it, but I plan on reading it. Christians love it, and Buddhists hate it. That always makes me curious.
Martin Luther King once observed more or less, "It's not what's wrong with the world that scares people. What really scares them is that everything is all right."
belief in God doesn't lead to truth... IMO
It's what you do that matters, not what you believe.
Famed Buddhist tells West: 'Look to Jesus'
The world's second most famous Buddhist is heading to Vancouver this summer with a message that may resonate among West Coast residents, who are on the front line of blending Western and Asian spiritualities.Vietnamese Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh, a peace and environmental activist second only to the Dalai Lama in global renown, doesn't want all North Americans to become Buddhists.
Thich Nhat Hanh, author of scores of books, is happy if Christians remain Christians, Sikhs stay with Sikhism and atheists hold onto secular humanism.
However, the 84-year-old monk urges all people to engage in inter-spiritual dialogue. He believes it will strengthen their commitment to their own founders' authentic teachings.
While Buddhists make up one of the fastest-growing religions in B.C., self-described Christians remain the largest cohort - comprising about 54 per cent of the provincial population, according to the last census.
But many West Coasters who identify as Christians are casual about it. They may believe Jesus had a special relationship with God, but many don't bother to show up often to church to explore such teachings.
Nhat Hanh - who will lead a five-day retreat at the University of B.C. Aug. 8 and give a public lecture at the Orpheum Aug. 14 - reached out to Christian searchers and the wider spiritual community in his bestselling 1997 book, Living Buddha/Living Christ.
In Nhat Hanh's accessible writing style, Living Buddha/Living Christ describes similarities between the life and teachings of Gautama Buddha and those of Jesus of Nazareth.
Both Buddha and Jesus, Nhat Hanh says, were contemplatives.
Both were wisdom teachers who had transformative experiences in their early 30s.
Both began renewal movements in their own traditions, Hinduism and Judaism.
Both taught ways to respond creatively to life's temptations and sufferings.
Both are considered exalted, if not divine.
Nhat Hanh is not the first to emphasize connections between Buddha and Jesus.
So did Hanh's old colleague Thomas Merton, the late American Catholic monk who was deeply influenced by Buddhism and who has a strong following in Vancouver.
Noted University of Oregon Bible scholar Marcus Borg is another who has joined Nhat Hanh in highlighting Buddhist-Christian similarities. His book is Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings.
Since Nhat Hanh is a celebrated meditation teacher, one of the first things his followers stress is how both Buddha and Jesus practised "mindfulness."
In anxious North America, mindfulness is a meditation style through which practitioners avoid distraction by becoming more aware of the present moment, and more calmly engaged in the world.
Nhat Hanh compares Buddhists who practise mindfulness to Christians who yearn to embody the holy spirit, which they believe is God's healing presence.
Mindfulness points to a mystical overlap between the two traditions.
"When we understand and practice deeply the life and teachings of Buddha or the life and teachings of Jesus, we penetrate the door and enter the abode of the living Buddha and the living Christ and life eternal presents itself to us," Nhat Hanh writes in Living Buddha/Living Christ.
In addition, Nhat Hanh emphasizes that Buddha and Jesus ran counter to today's me-first individualism: Both stressed the value of community and sacred meals.
Nhat Hanh's suggestions about how the teachings of Buddha and Jesus often dovetail may not satisfy theologically conservative Christians, who believe Jesus is the only son of God and the exclusive route to heaven.
Nevertheless, that has not stopped Nhat Hanh from saying Buddhists can be open to the mystical eucharist, in which Christians ingest the blood and body of Jesus in an act of cosmic interconnectedness.
Another compelling writer on the subject of Buddhist-Christian relations is American religion professor Jay McDaniels, a Christian who has practised Zen meditation for decades and taught several times in Vancouver. He is becoming an influential figure in China.
McDaniels' website, wittily titled www.jesusjazzbuddhism.org (logo left), includes many references to Nhat Hahn, while offering evocative entry points for anyone wishing to learn more about the promising parallels between Buddhism and Christianity.
In an online conversation with an admittedly "nervous" evangelical friend, McDaniels writes about how one need not fear the key Buddhist concept of "No Self," which teaches humans have no static, substantial selves.
"No Self" proposes there is no enduring essence to humans as we journey from birth to death. Or, as McDaniels says: "We never step in the same river twice, and we who do the stepping are never quite the same either. This is really good news. It means that, even if we have made mistakes in the past, we are never doomed by our pasts."
God, says McDaniels, is always with us in the flux of life, luring us to goodness and beauty. McDaniels knows a Roman Catholic nun who embraces the concept of "No Self." She says: "Christianity and Buddhism agree that spiritual pilgrimage involves an absolute letting go, or dropping away, of all that a person knows of self and God."
Another Western port of entry into Buddhism comes from an extremely busy advertising agent, who happens to meditate. She tells McDaniels she is drawn to Buddha and Jesus because they were not bent on amassing wealth.
Buddha and Jesus inspire the marketing executive to tone down her drive to achieve and keep up appearances, and instead focus more on helping others and delving into deeper realms.
In addition, McDaniels, who is inspired by mathematician-philosopher Alfred North Whitehead, writes about a Methodist physicist who values the "spirit of enquiry" in Buddhism. "For her a religious orientation must 'make sense' intellectually."
Troubled that some churches discourage questioning, the curious Christian physicist believes Buddhism will help her develop a nondogmatic approach to religion, which will lead her to a more compelling Christianity.
In addition, McDaniels points to another profound connection between Buddhism and Christianity, which tends to be found beyond the more intellectual world of Zen Buddhism, as practised by Nhat Hanh.
Zen does not propose the existence of a God. But the same cannot be said of Pure Land Buddhism, which is the largest branch of Buddhism in East Asia. Pure Land Buddhism speaks of a divine reality, called Amida Buddha, which is akin to the one embraced by Jesus.
It may be a surprising piece of common metaphysical ground. Says McDaniels: "Pure Land Buddhists speak of a heavenly Bodhissatva - Amida Buddha - who receives and listens to prayer, and who is filled with love. I believe that what Christians mean by 'God' is similar to what Pure Land Buddhists mean by 'Amida Buddha."
What I've read so far: Amida is considered the ultimate reality. The expanse of all consciousness. One pure awareness. Within Amida, there is a constant flux in which beings arise, but are never permanent. There is no eternal self, no individual I. We can only return to the pervading awareness. All things vile and evil are a part of this ultimate reality.
This... this is nothing like God. God is a single entity under which we were created, and thus, we are to worship him/her/it. In heaven, our eternal lives should be spent in worship of God because he is deserving of it. Also, he is not attributed with wickedness, but righteousness. Not with sin, but purity. Not with malevolence, but with retribution. Amida is all these things because Amida is everything.
I'm sure some Pure Land/Shin Buddhist knows more about this than I do. This is just what I got from a few minutes of reading.
It sounds similar to something I read.
THIS IS NOT BUDDHISM OR ANYTHING, JUST FICTION: Everything is a part of one eternal consciousness, writhing and twisting and non-constant. It has no shape, no definition, no single color, no one idea, no anything. However, once a part of this conscious solidifies itself by thinking a thought, attaching itself to it, the consciousness separates itself. Just how emotions are more expansive than the word we cram them into or the thought, this consciousness imprisons itself. This consciousness is less than the whole it came from, and it is only through struggle that it frees itself from its self-made prison.
Reminds me rather of my grandmother who said to me, on one occasion, as we passed a Poor Clare sister in the street, "I don't believe in nuns."
As Bro. David says, I find great treasures in Christian literature and some sh*t, too, but all turns to fertiliser if I treat it right. It is the heritage with which I grew up and it shaped who I am. To ignore it would be as foolish, to me, as to believe it is the only "narrative".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14060669
Man created god.
I would probably still be christian now tho, except a while ago i stopped believing in God, so looked for an alternative, & as i went to a Buddhist centre as a kid and always found it interesting, & after finding out more about it, realized that it fit much better with my beliefs.
Also realized that in times of need when i prayed to God, & something went right, i assumed it was God, but actually most times it was my actions changing the situation not God.
Each culture develops it's own, language but they all serve the same purpose. Each develop their own music. We cannot really say one music is better than another, but still some music will speak to us, other music won't.
I love the Beatles and Classical music. I loathe teen pop, hip hop, and death metal. However I am a music teacher, and many of my students want to learn those styles of music. I therefore can see the value of each form of music (well I"m not quite there with hip hop yet
The next paragraph won't probably be too relevant to most, because it is from a Pure Land perspective...sort of.
So there is a very famous quote in Christianity:
"I am the way, the truth, and the light. no man goes unto the Father except by me"
Often this quote is used by Christians to point out the exclusivity of their religion.
However to me this misses the point.
The first part of the quote is connected to the second part of the quote. He doesn't say "I am Jesus Christ, Son of God, flesh and blood guy walking around on earth...no man goes unto the Father except by me".
Instead he defines himself not as a single albeit half-God person, but as the qualities of Truth, the Way, and Light. So no person goes to "God" except by way of truth, the way, the light.
Now in Pure Land Buddhism we have the Nembutsu: Namu Amida Butsu in Japanese.
I think that there is a strong connection between the Nembutsu and the quote from Jesus.
Namu = I take refuge in, to me equates to the "I am" in Jesus words.
Amida = Amitabha - Infinite LIGHT, Amitayus - infinite life (the WAY or Tao)
Butsu = Buddha-perfectly awakened to the TRUTH.
Now granted I am doing some interpretation and not following any fundamentalist ideas, but to me essentially Jesus (historical or mythological) was saying the Nembutsu, and praising it as a path to the ultimate.
"Be still and know that I am God" similarly to me is the Bible praising Meditation as a path to the ultimate.
Most (not all) people in Jodo Shinshu see Amida not as a personal God-like being, but rather as a symbol of enlightenment itself.
So I feel that if we view thusness as personified, or formless is not really a problem unless we decide our interpretation alone is better than other interpretations.
What I can say for sure though is this. I am Jodo Shinshu Buddhist with very strong Soto Zen influences. My sister is Roman Catholic, but not fundamentalist by any means. We don't disagree on religion hardly ever (and we talk about it often).
So I do think there is room for some level of compatibility so long as we are not being fundamentalist about it, or too attached to the forms, myths, and practices that move us, to be able to see the deeper meaning and unity with other forms, myths and practices.