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The people I least get along with are other Buddhists
Why are the people I get along with the least other Buddhists? Before I became a Buddhist about 3 years ago, I don't think that I had an enemy in the world. But, since becoming Buddhist, I have come to know more people that I don't like, and who don't like me, than in my entire life. There are people who will never talk to me again, and even people who would probably like nothing better than to punch me in the nose. Now, I'm not having a pity party, and I realize that some of it is my own fault. But why? Is Buddhism a brotherhood/sisterhood, or is it everybody for themselves? Most other Buddhists seem rather ambivalent about one another, unless they happen to be friends, and even then, the issue probably wouldn't even come up. Shouldn't I get along with people better, with loving-kindness and good feelings towards all living things? Yet, I feel nothing of the sort. I actually feel worse towards other people, and I can be unsociable and even rude at times. Has Buddhism made given me a bad attitude, and why have I attracted (and caused) so many bad or broken relationships since becoming a Buddhist? And it is almost always with other Buddhist people! Shouldn't it be the other way around? Anyway, I know that I covered a lot of territory in this post, but if anybody has some insights, or similar experiences, please share them. Maybe it will help me to understand my situation better.
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I don't get along well with many Buddhists myself. Well, its not that I don't get along with them, I just don't associate with them much since the ones I've met have lives and views much different than mine. And, when it comes to my views they tend to be rather argumentative and judgmental at times.
This bothered me at first. I thought we would have much in common, but it wasn't so. It's just the way it is. I don't worry or think about it much, its not important me. I just hang and associate with people I do get along with.
I have been here for six years, but hopefully this year, I'll be returning to the UK with Nick, because in one way or another, the system here has beaten us. It's a long story, (and I, like you, have no wish to provoke a 'pity party') but there's no point beating our heads against the wall. We don't belong here, and it's been made very clear to us that we're not welcome here, either....
So the ONLY people I get to talk to are other Buddhists.
Here, on this forum, and on a couple of others I go to.....
I have personally never, EVER encountered unpleasantness, hostility, aggression, unfriendlyness, exclusion, rudeness or impoliteness, toward me, from anyone.
John, you sound and "look" to me as if you have quite a few years' experience of Buddhism behind you.... You also live in Thailand, so I'd imagine you are constantly in touch with a culture that is largely alien to your own (as I am here...)
Misunderstandings can arise due to cultural difficulties in communication and visual, 'body-language' misrepresentations....
However, I have learnt from my own personal experience, that if one is fairly adept at doing something, and has the mental confidence and attitude of their own expertise, others perceive this as arrogance and being a "smart-ass"....
I have personally, over time, had to relinquish the attitude and misconception that I've had to be right all the time, and prove I'm right too.... I was an argumentative, arrogant insufferable little know-it-all, and I've had to 'work on myself' to alter others' perception of me...
What I'm trying to say, very clumsily, is that none of us has any hope of changing other people... the one and only thing each of us can do, is to change, soften and re-present ourselves.....
I'm a Buddhist.
Most people on this site are aswell.
Do you hate us all?
---
Have you met everyone in the world who is not a Buddhist?
Do you get along with them all?
---
Hope that makes some sense (It did in my head but it's hard to put it into text)
When I interact with people I pretty much expect that non-Buddhists will often times be defensive, accusatory,confrontational and/or suspicious about things. I accept that and am patient with them...
I think I expect better of Buddhists, and am less patient with them as a result. More patience should improve my interactions. Patience is a good thing, even when dealing with less than perfect Buddhists
If you follow the Eightfold Path, and do 'Right Everything' such conditions, distinctions, prejudices and preferences simply fail to arise.....
To 'Try' is a pointless excercise.
Drop your keys on the table.
Now, try to pick them up.
Dont actually pick them up, just try...
It's ridiculous.
You either pick them up or you don't.
But there is no point, or relevance, or Effort, in the 'trying'.
'Trying, isn't 'Doing'.
It gives us a way out.
So don't 'Try'.
'Do'.
-bf
Pause to consider that since you've become buddhist you are self conscious of something that you find in yourself and also persecutory of that same characteristic in others?
Please accept this as an observation of myself that I'm just suggesting for your reflection - nothing more.
Fede will tell you, John, that, in the Chinese tradition, healing is often preceded by the externalisation of symptoms into physical signs. In Jungian terms, when we begin the process of calming the mind, we encounter resistance, particularly from the Shadow.
As we practise stilling the mind, after the initial, comforting effects, we notice that our mind seems busier than before! As we practise Right Speech, we suddenly engage in gossip! and so on, to the far end and back again.
I don't think this is about what arseholes your fellow-Buddhists are but about the arsehole-nature you are encountering in yourself. When you have embraced it and called it 'brother', you can embark on the lifelong task of taming it.
i've noticed i don't get along with other buddhists as much as i would have thought. i put it down to buddhism being quite individualistic, but when we say buddhist we create our own concept of what it means to be buddhist. Then we meet other buddhists and inevitably they don't fit into our concepts, and we don't like them for it.
Plus as Hunt4life says, i do expect more from buddhists for some bizarre reason.
Adiana;) :usflag: :type:
Me too, I can be quite judgemental and have formed opinions of people on initially meeting them. Invariably I ended up forming entirely the wrong impression of them so this is a habit that I am trying to train myself out of.
What makes this even more ironic is that I used to go around with spiky hair, piercings all up one ear along with a stretched ear lobe and a ring though the middle of my nose. God only knows what opinion people formed about me !! :rolleyesc
I try to meet people with an open mind now. One lesson I read somewhere (I think it was about compassion in the Tibetan tradition) was to treat each person you meet as though they were your mother. The idea being that due to countless rebirths the chances are that whoever you meet may well have been your mother in a past existence.
"You never get a second chance to make a first impression" which in many ways is true, and a commendable axiom to remember...
But it is as much the responsibility of the viewer to not judge, or to have preconceived ideas, as it is the onus of the person being 'viewed' to present themselves in the best light possible.
'Always look the part' is a bit of advice given to me by my father, and this has never let me down.
In company, you'll always get the person who's trying to leave a good impression of himself. but the more memorable person, is the one who leaves you with a good impression of yourself.
I think for me, in Buddhism, this is what I make efforts to do in company.
Just my three cents.
("Inflation"....)
http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/pissoff.html
Good old Brad !
I must dig out "Hardcore Zen" again.
Joy! What a fantastic read! Thank you, Genryu. Who is he? Has he written more of this sane stuff?
I can definately recommend reading it.
Here's the link to the rest of his site - Brad's Site
Maybe you are looking at it all wrong.
Just because someone is a "Buddhist" doesn't mean that they are free from greed, hatred, and delusion. No matter what you or someone else calls themselves, they will still have the potential to do unskillful things until they have completely removed the root cause of these afflictions--avijja (ignorance). All of our volitional actions of body, speech, and mind are intentional, and it is this very intention behind them that becomes our heritage, our kamma url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an05-057.html]Upajjhatthana Sutta[/url.
If you are having these problems, then this is where you need to focus. "Buddhism" is not simply a "brotherhood/sisterhood", nor is it just "everybody for themselves". What Buddhism is, however, is a systematic way of understanding, and subsequently eliminating, dukkha (stress, unsatisfactoriness, suffering). Your problems are more related to your intentions, and subsequent actions, than your "Buddhist" label.
If you have a negative reaction that arises due to to what someone else says or does, where does the fault actually reside? Is it with the other person, their religion, their nationality, their sex, the act itself, the reaction, or none of the above? Who or what is the real culprit then? The answer is your mind. The negative reaction arose from your own mind. Now, you have two choices: You can A. control what other people do [external], or you can B. control what you do [internal].
I hope that you chose B. because A. is absolutely impossible to accomplish!
Just some personal opinions of course.
Jason
...Oh....yeah....I knew that....!!
Well, incredible as it may sound from one so inexperienced, so hum-drum and so "simple" as I... what he was saying made perfect sense, and struck me as no surprise...
But i still think he sounded a bit like the "grumpy old men" on TV...!!
Rick Wakeman being a grumpy old man
I have found that I am most loved when I'm happy and most happy when I love.
Just read the Brad Warner rant and I'm laughing so hard I can't breath. I absolutely LOVE it! It's wonderful! I haven't laughed this hard in ages. I think of all the things I've read on Buddhism, this one speaks to me the most. I have to go to his site now. Thank you!
The Cucumber Sage
I don't get it.
(lol)
LOL!!
How "simple".
:bigclap:
An excellent tale on not reading too much into what someone says, just because they appear to be the perfect embodiment of an Enlightened being!
Or have I missed the point entirely ?! :scratch: :doh:
I liked the Mu story on that site MU!
"Do not think that you will necessarily be aware of your own Enlightenment."
- Ehei Dogen
And, yes!!!! The Cucumber Sage is Winnie the Pooh in Benjamin Hoff's "The Tao of Pooh".
For me, the story reminded me to simplify, simplify, simplify.
Some are going to tell you the enlightenment is "out there", others are going to tell you its "in here". Some will even try to draw a picture of it.....
Me, I haven't a clue and it doesn't bother me one bit....:rockon:
Here's that eye shooting you all with varied coloured rays of LOVE!!! You know you can't hide cause I'll find you!!!!!!
I have to concur with several folks; if you expect something different from another Dharma practitioner than you do from anyone else, your expectations are at least in part what leads to the problem.
I don't practice Zen, but I learned something once that stuck with me.
"You can trust absolutely anyone, on one condition. You must trust them to be EXACTLY AS THEY ARE, and not as you wish or expect them to be." I have found this to be very true. The caveat is that it isn't always easy to discern exactly how a person is. Practice can help with this over time.